CBT-100 TBC Causing 'Blurriness' and 'Hockey Stick' Bending?

[snivlle]

I have a CBT-100 TBC (Which I'm led to believe is the same as an AVT-8710) and a JVC HR-S5100U S-VHS deck. I find that on some tapes (mostly 1st gen or greater) that the 'hockey stick' effect becomes an issue. If I don't use the TBC unit, then the tape jitter is quite evident, but no 'hockey stick' effect along the top of the frame. (tearing, whatever you want to call the anomaly. *smile*)

I am using a Panasonic DMR-ES20 SA DVDR with the Video Line NR turned on. It does help clean some of the VHS noise & grain, but is it compounding the 'hockey stick' problem?

Can anyone tell me what exactly the Panasonic Line NR on the DMR-ES20 is and what exactly it does? I've researched it, but Panasonic don't really tell you much. They are using the typical 'gee whiz' marketing terminology to describe it.

I would really appreciate your help.



Anther strange thing that seems to happen sometimes when transferring 1st gen (or greater) tapes is that the footage will look as though it is 'blurry' or out of focus in spots, while the TBC is being used. It isn't constant, it's only intermittent in certain parts. Usually the parts that suffer the most from jitter and 'tearing'. The TBC is helping to straighten the picture up, but it will induce this 'blurry effect'. I've been able to minimize the effect and stabilize the picture quality by manually adjusting the tracking, but then the audio goes 'out the window'. At which time I usually have to record the audio separately and then fuss with trying to hack n' splice and sync everything on my Video Workstation PC. Can any of you experienced folks tell me why the 'out of focus/blurry' deal happens?

[Dr_Layne]

Sniville. I know that name from somewhere, some forum starting with a Y perhaps

With regards to the TBC issue, I get the same results when doing a transfer of a hi gen VHS tape. The tearing is happening because a TBC was not used during the previous dubs and the "tearing" effect is now permanently in the video signal. I'm still at a loss as to why it does not appear when at TBC is not used, but to me it's a trade off of having a stable picture that can be captured. What I normally do is mask the "tearing" in Virtual Dub by blackening it out and then do the same at the bottom with the head switching noise.

A_L

[snivlle]

Thanx A_Layne.

I've been doing the 'crop & black bars' deal as a work around.

Any ideas about the 'blurring' effect?

[Dr_Layne]

Not sure what is cuasing the blurring effect, unless your TBC is doing some kind of temporal smoothing during the process.

A_L

[lordsmurf]

You need a VCR with line-based TBC or possibly some stabilization.

Crappy wiring can cause some of this too, so be sure to use good s-video cables.

[Dr_Layne]

Depending on my needs I will run the line TBC of my JVC 9800 + the TBC1000. Sometimes all I need is the TBC-1000 and not the JVC''s TBC. You don't mention the VCR used, but if you would like, send me one of the tapes giving you greif and I'll see if I have the same issue.

A_L

[snivlle]

Thanx for the feedback guys.

A_L, yes I did list my S-VHS model in the firct couple of ines of the initial post.
No, my TBC does not have any type of on-board temporal filtering capability.

Lordsmurf, you say a VCR with built-in line based TBC. Is that why some folks are saying that the Panasonic DMR-ES10 eliminates the problem? Because it has a line-based TBC? Buying a DMR-ES10 for $100 off eBay would be much more cost effective than $500 - $900 for a 9600U - 9800U, or AG-1880. etc..

What do you mean by 'stabilization'? The 5100U is 'supposed' to have some type of 'stabilization' built into it to ensure maximum playback quality (according to the manual.) Typically, a video stabilizer is used simply to remove copyright protection streams in an analog source; IE. 'marcrovision'. Otherwise, I don't what what you meant by a 'stabilizer'.

I'd love to get a 9600U, or better, but they cost too arfin' much money. The eBay crowd knows that serious enthusiasts and hobbyists will pay a small fortune, so the prices seem to keep going up. A good pal of mine recently bought a (brand new) D-VHS deck on eBay for under $200. The problem is, the shipping was outrageous to ship to Canada, where I'm at. He used it many times since getting it a couple of months ago. It works incredibly well. I'm pretty sure it's some type of line-based TBC built into it. It has a TBC onboard, but he doesn't know if it's a FF TBC or just a line-based TBC.

[deuce8pro]

Sniville, I pm'd you on a different board. Everything ive read here has brought me to the conclusion that the es10 fixes the tearing issue but it doesnt correct jitter and after all the research ive done, I have no idea if any tbc actually corrects jitter caused either by a vcr or a tape. If anyone wants to point out what EXACTLY corrects it, regardless if its the tape or whatever. Im thinking maybe a Toshiba XS34, but I cant be sure.

[snivlle]

Sniville, I pm'd you on a different board. Everything ive read here has brought me to the conclusion that the es10 fixes the tearing issue but it doesnt correct jitter and after all the research ive done, I have no idea if any tbc actually corrects jitter caused either by a vcr or a tape. If anyone wants to point out what EXACTLY corrects it, regardless if its the tape or whatever. Im thinking maybe a Toshiba XS34, but I cant be sure.

Yes, I received your message, thanx.

[lordsmurf]

Is that why some folks are saying that the Panasonic DMR-ES10 eliminates the problem? Because it has a line-based TBC?

No, it does not. It has some synchronization going on, but it doesn't do what I would consider TBC work. Anyway, you need to fix this at the source, the VCR, not later. The JVC D-VHS player has a line TBC in it, yes, that could work.

[snivlle]

Thanx for the reply, smurf.