Update on Sony's Rootkit Quagmire

[SCDVD]

This article does a very good job of summarizing the Sony Rootkit issues.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1134554712419

Aside from the summary of the situation, it cites a number of suits and other legal actions that are underway. It shows the specific Federal and State laws that are the basis for these legal actions. Perhaps after these suits are decided, we will have some new case law that will help in the future.

I would appreciate any comments from those in the legal profession such as Adam. It seems to me that Sony's position in pretty weak in the face of the language in some these Federal and State laws.

[ROF]

the article linked has so many false accusations it's to be laughed at. I did an extensive testing of this product and can verify that playing the CD with the protection after installing the player and rootkit, playing CDs without this protection, playing movie DVDs and so forth does not cause the installed software to phone home.

if you are going to perform your own tests, be warned. Removing the rootkit in it's entirety will cause you to have to reinstall windows. That's the only fault I could find with the software.

Added: In my opinion Sony doesn't have any legal legs to stand on. They install software on any PC using these discs without permission. the software installed is hidden from all systems and inquiries. the software allegedly opens security holes in which others can utilize the rootkit to attack your system, hijack your system, or worse. This wasn't a smart decision on sony's part. I hope they pay for it.

[MozartMan]

I did an extensive testing of this product and can verify that playing the CD with the protection after installing the player and rootkit, playing CDs without this protection, playing movie DVDs and so forth does not cause the installed software to phone home.

Hey rof,

What was the test process and what test tools did you use? Without any details, all you said is bull SCHEISER.

[Paul_G]

Removing the rootkit in it's entirety will cause you to have to reinstall windows. That's the only fault I could find with the software

That "ONLY" fault is a pretty big fault on its own. Having to reinstall Windows to remove sony`s cancer is unacceptable and inexcusable.

sony have proven they are untrustworthy and have acted cowardly.

[thecoalman]

..... so forth does not cause the installed software to phone home.

Under Sony's own admisssion the software contacts Sony servers to see if there is a new banner available for that album.

From Sony:

The player has a standard rotating banner that connects the user to additional content (e.g. provides a link to the artist web site). The player simply looks online to see if another banner is available for rotation. The communication is one-way in that a banner is simply retrieved from the server if available. No information is ever fed back or collected about the consumer or their activities

What Sony does with that info from there is anyones guess. They can easily be collecting Data if the player is sending a unique ID along with the request for the banner. Considering their track record it wouldn't suprise me.

[ROF]

What was the test process and what test tools did you use? Without any details, all you said is bull SCHEISER.

click here.

[ROF]

..... so forth does not cause the installed software to phone home.

Under Sony's own admisssion the software contacts Sony servers to see if there is a new banner available for that album.

quite a few players do this. It's almost something you'd call standard practice. The software I'm referring to is the stuff you aren't completely told about when the player is installed.

[MozartMan]

What was the test process and what test tools did you use? Without any details, all you said is bull SCHEISER.

click here.

And what am I suppose to see there?

[gadgetguy]

ROF's testing is inconclusive, at best. The rootkit can and will "phone home". Get the real story here from the man that discovered the rootkit in the first place.

[ROF]

ROF's testing is inconclusive, at best. The rootkit can and will "phone home". Get the real story here from the man that discovered the rootkit in the first place.

how can I make it conclusive? you can't say it's inconclusive if you can't prove why? In any case, I'll let others pass judgement on what's conclusive and what's not. I tried to help by taking my testing further then the original founders of this problem. Sorry if you feel otherwise but I don't see anyone else doing anything to help out other than bashing those that did.

[MozartMan]

ROF's testing is inconclusive, at best. The rootkit can and will "phone home". Get the real story here from the man that discovered the rootkit in the first place.

how can I make it conclusive? you can't say it's inconclusive if you can't prove why?

rof,

You didn't answer my question.

[ROF]

rof,

You didn't answer my question.

read. The test methods and results are posted in the thread I linked. I can't hold your hand.

[MozartMan]

I tried to help by taking my testing further then the original founders of this problem.

And what was that?

Did you plug your phone into ethernet port of your computer to see if you can here the dial tone?

[MozartMan]

I can't hold your hand.

Which hand, right or left?

[ROF]

I can't hold your hand.

Which hand, right or left?

Please take this to PMs if you wish to continue this off topic discussion. I think the OP wants to hear legal opinions and not spam or the discussion of extensive testing done by the membership here or elsewhere.

[smearbrick1]

the article linked has so many false accusations it's to be laughed at. I did an extensive testing of this product and can verify that playing the CD with the protection after installing the player and rootkit, playing CDs without this protection, playing movie DVDs and so forth does not cause the installed software to phone home.

if you are going to perform your own tests, be warned. Removing the rootkit in it's entirety will cause you to have to reinstall windows. That's the only fault I could find with the software.

Added: In my opinion Sony doesn't have any legal legs to stand on. They install software on any PC using these discs without permission. the software installed is hidden from all systems and inquiries. the software allegedly opens security holes in which others can utilize the rootkit to attack your system, hijack your system, or worse. This wasn't a smart decision on sony's part. I hope they pay for it.

I truly applaud ROF. He did not believe all of the talk in the forums about the problems caused by the rootkit or the potential for problems it posed, so he did a bit of testing himself. The conclusions he came up with are pretty much a 180 degree turn from his original assertions. It takes a person of large character to post such findings (most people wouldn't have given results at all, let alone results that fly in the face of what you believed), and applaud you for that.

This may be the only positive post you receive. Sorry about that.

[gadgetguy]

Actually, I can. By the definition of the word you can not legitimatly claim that the rootkit does not phone home. You can only claim that it did not during your test. Others have tested and witnessed the rootkit attempting to phone home. Since there are opposite test results, the matter, by definition, is inconclusive.
Personally, I accept the results published by Mark Russinovich more than I trust the results of your test.

[ROF]

Actually, I can. By the definition of the word you can not legitimatly claim that the rootkit does not phone home. You can only claim that it did not during your test. Others have tested and witnessed the rootkit attempting to phone home. Since there are opposite test results, the matter, by definition, is inconclusive.
Personally, I accept the results published by Mark Russinovich more than I trust the results of your test.

mark's tests stated that it had potential to phone home. He didn't test it. I did. but as the original poster has already complained about this thread as he has done with previous threads, might I suggest you PM me with any further commentary. maybe even start your own thread with ideas for how conclusive testing could be done.

[gadgetguy]

mark's tests stated that it had potential to phone home. He didn't test it.

Not correct. Read the link I give earlier. I'm done.

[MozartMan]

mark's tests stated that it had potential to phone home. He didn't test it. I did.

Oh rof!

You are such a LIAR. You lost all your credibility (if you had any).



http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/more-on-sony-dangerous-decloaking.html

[ROF]

that is the player, not the rootkit. but again, you are posting off topic. If you'd like to discuss this further please PM me or start your own thread.

[MozartMan]

that is the player, not the rootkit. but again, you are posting off topic. If you'd like to discuss this further please PM me or start your own thread.

but again, you didn't answer my question. So I will repeat it:

What was the test process and what test tools did you use? Without any details, all you said is bull SCHEISER.

[ROF]

and I'll repeat, this is off topic for this thread. Please start your own thread for discussions of testing procedures or examine the link already provided.

[Rich86]

There are many productive and useful things a person can do with their time on earth. Engaging in these types of interactions with ROF is clearly NOT one of them.

[painkiller]

ROF,

What do you do for a living?

What is your level of education?

How many years have you been working with computer networks and various network tools?

Are you a consultant for an engineering firm? Are you in IT?

What are you?

[offline]

Not news - moved.

I really don't want to lock yet another thread.

[kabanero]

ROF,

What do you do for a living?

What is your level of education?

How many years have you been working with computer networks and various network tools?

Are you a consultant for an engineering firm? Are you in IT?

What are you?

I think ROF doesn't know anything about computers, doesn't know anything about networking. He is just annoying troll.

[painkiller]

Just so everyone understands me.

I simply would rather give ROF the courtesy of demonstrating to us that he has credentials we can be satisfied with. Anyone deserves that much.

For myself, I am a Senior Engineer with a major aerospace firm near Baltimore. I've been an engineer throughout my 32 years at several fine institutions. Never thought I'd make it this far - to be frank.

I don't always do or say the right thing - but I would at least like to give this person the opportunity to show us his background.

I don't dismiss him out of hand. I make mistakes, and am happy to own up to them and correct and learn from them. Publicly if need be.

What say you, ROF?

[offline]

Rocket Surgeon or Brain Scientist. It hardly matters. Reputations are earned at this site by how people contribute here. Throwing a swimming certificate into the ring and assuming some sort of rank is ridiculous.

Anyway, this thread continues to meander hopelessly away from it's intended subject, with no beneficial conclusion in sight. I'm locking it. Take it to PM please