Xbox 360 file system de-coded

[GullyFoyle]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/13/xbox_360_file-system_cracked/
The Xbox 360's DVD file system has been exposed, a coding group calling itself Pi, has claimed.

The group said it has posted source code for a utility that allows discs' files to be extracted and displayed as raw data. The group admits there's not much that can be done with it beyond explore the file-system structure, if anyone is prepared to jump through all the hoops necessary to bring code and disc contents together.
Click Here

The utility runs on a PC, apparently, but Xbox 360 DVDs are incompatible with PC DVD drives. Since the code won't run on an Xbox 360, users have to create an image of an original disc then transfer that image to a PC.

The utility does not bypass copy-protection mechanisms, the group claims. More to the point, even creating and transferring an image of a disc you own is against the law - if only as a violation of the end-user licence agreement.

However, it is likely to provide the foundation for work seeking to attack the content protection put in place by Microsoft.

According to the Pi people, the Xbox 360's file-system is essentially the same as the one employed by its predecessor console: "Once you get past the protections and down to the raw bits on the disc, its just the standard xboxdvdfs, however the offset and layer breakpoint are different." ®

[lordsmurf]

creating and transferring an image of a disc you own is against the law - if only as a violation of the end-user licence agreement.

Well, video games are considered software. And we have a clear and written law to allow backups of software. Same for a clear and written law to allow backups of audio. Even video has it's assumed-yet-untested interpretations. So I fail to understand what they mean here.

[whitejremiah]

this is true, im not quite sure what they are rambling on about as far as violation of end user license agreement.....but as of the moment, it doesnt appear to be very worth while....

[tlegion]

ROF watch starts now...

[adam]

I think the register is a UK based site, at least its got uk in the url, so they may be referring to UK law. Maybe the UK doesn't have a software exception, I have no idea. Maybe the cracking group is not based in the US. The Xbox is out in Japan and I know for a fact that their exception for computer software does not apply to video games.

But even in the states, that's accurate about the end user license. You do have a right to backup video games but just like with most rights, you can contract them away via an end-user license. Just like how you have the right to sue Microsoft anywhere that has jurisdiction (with microsoft that is probably anywhere in the world) but alot of the end-user licenses have forum selection clauses saying you can only sue them in a certain state. If you agree to the license, you are bound by that clause. You have contracted away that right.

But the big caveat is that any given clause in a software end-user license may or may not be enforceable in any given jurisdiction. Software end user licenses are a big wishy washy area of law. Many courts would not enforce a license agreement prohibiting you from copying a video game.

[TooLFooL]

you guys crack me up, you hate ROF!

[GullyFoyle]

you guys crack me up, you hate ROF!

I found his picture


I think it's version .05 though. he has modified since then.

[ROF]

@ToolFool

it's better to just ignore the trolls. Everyone must agree with them and never defend the practice of any corporation or government entity. They accuse people of being things they aren't or post one sentence structures bashing members.

They rarely participate in the topics in which they bash me or others and when they do all they do is argue with me and others. Case in point is DVDs searching before they play is caused by unreferenced cells. You just gotta laugh at that.

@Adam

I've always thought the EULA takes precedence in cases where what you are allowed to do by law and what you are allowed to with the software under the EULA?

[lordsmurf]

I don't see how a EULA could force somebody to give up their rights to use the product. You still have rights, regardless of the crap they spew. Otherwise every product and company would come with miles of disclaimers that says you much relinquish rights for all sorts of things. And that just doesn't sound right to me.

I remember back in grade school, for field trips, having to get parents to sign release forms. But, come to find out, those release forms still don't exempt them from responsibilities.

[GullyFoyle]

@ToolFool

it's better to just ignore the trolls. Everyone must agree with them and never defend the practice of any corporation or government entity. They accuse people of being things they aren't or post one sentence structures bashing members.

They rarely participate in the topics in which they bash me or others and when they do all they do is argue with me and others. Case in point is DVDs searching before they play is caused by unreferenced cells. You just gotta laugh at that.

@Adam

I've always thought the EULA takes precedence in cases where what you are allowed to do by law and what you are allowed to with the software under the EULA?

Man you are so funny.
Take that act on the road I bet you get lots of laughs.
If we use these common definitions

# From the fishing term. As a noun, synonymous with flamebait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.
teladesign.com/ma-thesis/glossary.html

# a newsgroup post that is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke readers; or a person who makes such a post
www.archivemag.co.uk/gloss/T.html

That makes YOU the troll.
And a paid one at that.

[GullyFoyle]

I don't see how a EULA could force somebody to give up their rights to use the product. You still have rights, regardless of the crap they spew. Otherwise every product and company would come with miles of disclaimers that says you much relinquish rights for all sorts of things. And that just doesn't sound right to me.

I remember back in grade school, for field trips, having to get parents to sign release forms. But, come to find out, those release forms still don't exempt them from responsibilities.

Interpretation dude.
One lawyer reads the law one way another another.
That is why it gets argued out in court.

"Even when laws have been written down, they ought not always to remain unaltered."
Aristotle
"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."
Noam Chomsky
"Laws were made to be broken."
Christopher North

[ROF]

I don't see how a EULA could force somebody to give up their rights to use the product. You still have rights, regardless of the crap they spew. Otherwise every product and company would come with miles of disclaimers that says you much relinquish rights for all sorts of things. And that just doesn't sound right to me.

I remember back in grade school, for field trips, having to get parents to sign release forms. But, come to find out, those release forms still don't exempt them from responsibilities.

The release are so that in case your child is injured the school can seek medical attention and procedures to help your child. They can do so while on school grounds but once the child is off the school property the school is no longer responsible. The release form extends this responsibility for the documented locations.

@ToolFool

See what I mean.

[adam]

I don't see how a EULA could force somebody to give up their rights to use the product.

That is one of the primary purposes and uses of all EULA and of contracts in general. You can contract away almost any right that you have. Whether that contract is enforceable is another question. There are miles and miles of cases on EULA, primarily as they are used on software. The primary difficulty in enforcing them is that the U.C.C. requires an express assent to terms among non-merchants and some jurisdictions feel this is satisfied by reading the language on the box (if you don't its your loss because the terms are conspicous) and choosing to purchase the software anyway and many other jurisdictions do not feel this is sufficient. Another diverging point of view is in regards to the breadth of the terms on the box. Its common for only the main terms to be on the box and for them to be fleshed out in a printed document inside the box. The question is whether the outside terms are enough to put you on notice, and/or whether its sufficient to require the consumer to read the license AFTER leaving the store and opening the box, when they are sort of locked in. Jurisdictions differ here as well. Like I said, this is one area of law that is wishy washy.

The only company that has truly mastered enforceability is MS with their os'es because it requires you to "click your life away" before installing, which is universally deemed an express assent. But for other software and for the Xbox you judge the EULA on an ad hoc basis.

[RottenFoxBreath]

yeh blah blah...whatever.
what this could mean is that instead of getting my original £50 games ruined by a slightly flawed machine that likes to roast some discs and re-surface others,i can get a backup/send my own games to the hard drive,and hopefully enlargen my hard drive to accomodate new games i purchase,whilst protecting my originals,having faster loading times,a smoother gaming experience,etc---NOT a bad thing IMO-and in reality,a smart idea.
the EULA is a load of dogs sweaty bollocks,if we all adhered to it,we'd all still be using windows 3.1,and noones pc would have software on it.
ive bought my gaming software,im legally using the software,but with improvements,improvements that should have been implemented at source,thats the way i feel,i cant be the only one.
companies give you what they want,not what you want,and only if its a financial viability to them,and most of the time its more generic bilge.

oh,and @ROF,if you ever put your ear up to a dvd player when its playing one of the discs that you say are perfect..then you will hear the laser and mechanism move its ass off inside.the only thing that springs to mind is some players buffers are better than others..i have an LG,and it spazzes out on some discs ,so please STFU--you dont know everything.
i mean,your just as much of a troll as some others,if indeed they are trolls.

[adam]

yeh blah blah...whatever.

Lordsmurf specifically asked me to clarify or support something that I said. If it doesn't interest you than just ignore it.

EULAs are a fact of life and whether you put any stock in them or not, or whether you intend to agree to them or not, if put to the test a court of law could hold you to them. No right or wrong or blah blah about, that's just the way it is.

[RottenFoxBreath]

did i direct the "blah" comment at you...nope,dont think your name was mentioned once--- it was a general comment on ROF and the usual shit thats spouted..school trips now,first murder,then stealing cars,now clearing up parental consent forms for school trips..
but back to EULA,i see that theyre not really contested here in the uk,mostly ignored,as you(in the case of pc software) have to insert it into the computer before reading it,and there far too confusing fgr the average user.
besides,uk law(being split into scottish and english law) is a far tamer beast than its US counterpart.

[adam]

It sounded like you were directing it at me, yes.

besides,uk law(being split into scottish and english law) is a far tamer beast than its US counterpart.

If you are talking about copyright law than I have to completely disagree. The UK's copyright laws are much more restrictive than the US's. As for law generally, I don't think its possible to really grade it but since our common law comes from English courts the two countries' legal systems aren't all that different really.

[RottenFoxBreath]

compared to the US,for a downloading,illegal coping/backing up/distributing,copyright theft/infringement,raping,murdering,identity thieving,cash theft,credit card using fraudulent holiday,i know what continent id want to be caught in.
and the same goes for the punishments.id want to do the crime and time here too.
so now,which country is harsher.?

[GullyFoyle]

compared to the US,for a downloading,illegal coping/backing up/distributing,copyright theft/infringement,raping,murdering,identity thieving,cash theft,credit card using fraudulent holiday,i know what continent id want to be caught in.
and the same goes for the punishments.id want to do the crime and time here too.
so now,which country is harsher.?

Depends on how much money you have. More money buys you a better lawyer. Less jail time, if any, and what you do is in a golf pro prison.
Funny thing about the law it just isn't fair to poor people.
That could explain why lawyers are universally despised.

A man went to a brain store to get some brain to complete a study. He sees a sign remarking on the quality of professional brain offerred at this particular brain store. He begins to question the butcher about the cost of these brains.

"How much does it cost for engineer brain?"

"Three dollars an ounce."

"How much does it cost for programmer brain?"

"Four dollars an ounce."

"How much for lawyer brain?"

"$1,000 an ounce."

"Why is lawyer brain so much more?"

"Do you know how many lawyers we had to kill to get one ounce of brain?"

Merry Christmas!

[adam]

compared to the US,for a downloading,illegal coping/backing up/distributing,copyright theft/infringement,raping,murdering,identity thieving,cash theft,credit card using fraudulent holiday,i know what continent id want to be caught in.
and the same goes for the punishments.id want to do the crime and time here too.
so now,which country is harsher.?

Most of those are crimes and yes the US tends to have harsher sentences than the UK. Since we were talking about EULAs, potential copyright violations, and potential DMCA violations I assumed you were not referring to criminal law. Copyright law primarily carries civil penalties and like I said, the UK is much harsher in this area. The penalties are fairly equivalent, UK copyright just prohibits alot more types of copying. As for other civil areas of law, again it depends but its not all that different.