Sports: Pioneer 220/225/233 -or- Panasonic ES10/ES20 ?

[ncaahoops]

I have been looking for a DVD recorder for sports/basketball.

After looking at the various models, and manuals and reading dozens and dozens of posts, I am down to these: Pioneer 220/225/233 -vs- Panasonic ES10/ES20.

I am asking for your suggestions/recommendations/feedback on these with regards to sports. And to be more specific, I will list a few recording scenarios (use cases) below and see which ones you would recommend for each. Feedback from people who have used both Pioneer and Panasonic will be extremely valuable to me (and others in similar situations)!

Some background information:
* I do not wish to edit on the recorder, or on the computer. I am looking for a quick and simple solution, and I am okay with the trade-offs
* I am trying to stay at/under $200, but I realize a hard disk recorder has a lot more benefits (a future purchase for sure in a couple of years)
* I am okay with 6-hour VHS level quality, but would rather avoid frequent macroblocking/pixelization
* I am using 20-24" analog TVs, and the largest I'll buy will be 26-30"
* I will be using a Comcast dual tuner PVR (Moto DCT, 120GB: 60 hrs analog, 90 hrs digital channels), as well as RF pass thru on the DVD recorder



Scenarios (Use cases)
================

Live Broadcast from cable or RF
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1) One game on one DVD (2 - 2:30 hours)
2) Two games on one DVD (4 - 4:30 hours)


Transfer from PVR (one quality level mentioned above)
-----------------------
3) One game on one DVD ( 2 - 2:30 hours)
4) Two games on one DVD (4 - 4:30 hours)


Transfer from 6-hour EP/SLP VCR (tapes in very good condition)
------------------------------------------
5) One game on one DVD ( 2 - 2:30 hours)
6) Two games on one DVD (4 - 4:30 hours)
7) 6-hours VHS onto one DVD (6 hours)


So with those 7 scenarios above, which DVD recorder would you recommend for sports/basketball for each scenario, or which one do you recommend overall?

I realize that #7 is wishful thinking with current technology.
I realize that #1 and #3 would have better PQ than the other options.

I'm particularly interested in #2 and #4 and #6 (and #7) because that means fewer disks, easier copying, easier to store and keep track and lower cost.

If you have reached this point, thank you for reading my essay-type question!

That's all folks!

PS> I am aware of the differences between the Pioneer 220/225 and 231/233s. And the difference between the ES10 and ES20.

[lumis]

i'm actually living your live broadcast scenario right now..

i record my teams nfl football games every week..

what i do is record to my DVR/PVR and simultaneously record it to a dvd-rw in dvd-video mode, in 6 hour mode.. after the game is completed, i finalize the dvd-rw, extract contents to my computer, and edit out all the commercials to determine the length of the game. then i go and re-record at the closet quality setting while playing it back from my DVR/PVR.

you do have to split it up over 2 discs while re-recording, but in the end it fits on one disc..

here is how i do it:

1) record game in 6 hour mode to dvd-rw in dvd-video mode, finalize disc(the quality is low in 6 hour mode, but smaller file sizes = quicker editing)
2) extract dvd-rw to mpeg with tmpgenc mpeg editor
3) edit out the actual game in to pieces named sequentially (01.mpg, 02.mpg, etc)
4) take all the files to tmpgenc dvd author & view the total length
5) re-record the game at the closet time
6) refer to step 2
7) refer to step 3
take all the pieces in to TDA, create menu's, chapters, etc.


i saw that you didnt want to have to edit on the computer or dvd recorder, you can pause on the fly with the dvd recorder, but your results will be a lot less doing it that way.

i use a dish network 625 DVR & a pioneer dvr-225s dvd recorder.

here are a few screen shots of my finished product.

[ncaahoops]

Thank you for your answer!

Your finished product looks nice and very practical for following drives and watching defense vs offense.

In my case I am not setup for PC editing (slow computer), so that's partially why I am going for a single pass. But I could record from the DVR just like you are doing, so I won't have to guess the length of the game and maximize quality -vs- disk space.

Since you mentioned you record it using the 6hr mode on the 225s, what do you think of the Picture Quality of the game in that mode (especially during fast movement)?

Thanks!

[lumis]

it looks terrible in 6 hour mode.. the only way i would actually use 6 hour mode was if i was recording a static or very low movement screen with music..

i run the 6 hour recording live when the game starts, stop it when it's finished, and then determine the length on the computer.. then re-record at the best quality..

you dont really need a fast computer for all the stuff i mentioned.. the requirments are pretty low for all the programs.

the only thing you might want to do is limit your recordings to under 4gb on the recording on the standalone, since windows 98 (fat32) only supports up to 4gb files.

[ncaahoops]

Thanks!

I checked a couple of classic games recorded on the Comcast PVR and i didnt notice any digital artifacts (other than when switching between FF and PLAY or PAUSE).

Well the reason I don't want to use the computer for editing is mainly the volume of stuff I have (it would take "forever"), and I would also need to either buy a new one or overhaul/upgrade my computer with more resources (disks, drives, and memory). Even if I had this setup, I would only use it for special recordings only.