is s-vhs better

[mysticdx]

im running 2 walmart brand vcr's with a ct-1 copythis! and it seems to do find for video editing on vhs but i keep looking at s-vhs jvc and wonder do i realy need it? will it do a better picture with 2 s-vhs ?

[TBoneit]

Well FWIW I always found that S-VHS recorded a better picture. But in your scenario you'd only need one since you only need a S-VHS player if the tape is recorded on S-VHS tape in that mode. OF course you really want the whole thing to get the best benefit: IE S-VHS tape and recorder.

I'm also assuming you don't just mean the S-Video connector on the back of the units?

Cheers

[Barnabas]

SVHS is 400 lines res versus about 240 for normal VHS, so if recorded on SVHS, quality is better.

[zzyzzx]

Yes, both SHVS and the S-video connector on the back of the VCR do work better.

[FKrueger]

I have a Toshiba S VHS and I found that tapes that look bad on 3 other non S-VHS machines look great on the Toshiba, and they are not recorded in the super vhs mode. Wish I had discovered that before erasing some of them

[edDV]

S-VHS will record a superior signal vs VHS depending what the input signal is and how it is recorded.

To simplify, NTSC (and PAL) record luminance and chroma in the same frequency space where they overlap between ~3.1 and 4.3 MHz (~3.9 to 4.9MHz PAL) centered on the 3.58 MHz subcarrier (4.43 MHz PAL).

VHS makes a simple decision. Luminance is defined as everything below 3MHz (240lines max) and everything above is filtered out. Chroma is extracted from the information around 3.58Mhz.

S-VHS will allow separate recording of Y and C from a S-Video source and luminance up to >4.2 MHz (350lines or more) can be recorded.

If a composite signal is presented to a S-VHS machine (tuner or composite input) then a Y/C splitter is used to separate Y/C at different resolutions. These include (worst to best, NTSC only example):

1. A VHS type hard filter below 3MHz (240 max lines of luminance)

2. A notch filter where 3.58MHz +/- ~0.4MHz is eliminated but higher luminance is allowed to pass.
This allows some higher luminance values but also includes some chroma crosstalk.

3. A comb filter where 3.58MHz chroma and most of its modulation products are separated out of the luminance to allow relatively smooth luminance frequency response out to >4.5 to 5MHz (350-400 lines). Comb filters vary in performance and each type has pro/cons but if your S-VHS machine has no comb filter, the bandwidth advantages are limited to the S-Video input.

[lordsmurf]

In simple language, JVC S-VHS units have filters and hardware that make your VHS tapes look better than any VHS machine can ever hope to do.

So yes, worth it. A thousand times over.

If I made a list of the 10 best things I ever bought in my whole life, the JVC 9800 would be on that list. I'm not exaggerating either.

[edDV]

In simple language, JVC S-VHS units have filters and hardware that make your VHS tapes look better than any VHS machine can ever hope to do.

So yes, worth it. A thousand times over.

If I made a list of the 10 best things I ever bought in my whole life, the JVC 9800 would be on that list. I'm not exaggerating either.

Beware: The lower end JVC SVHS units do not have a comb filter so understand this going in.

Currently I have 2 with comb filter (Sony R1000 and a NEC that cost me $1000 in the 80's). My lowly JVC-4800U alas, has no comb filter or if it does I don't notice it.

My current interest is in a capture card with a quality 3D comb filter. I just wish ATI would get the Elite 550 working.

more:
I was talking about recording to SVHS tape. Lordsmurf is focusing on the output side of the high end JVC SVHS machines and it is true they also work great for VHS but remember, the VHS luminance bandwdth was chopped below 3MHz before recording so you shouldn't expect more on playback.

[mysticdx]

In simple language, JVC S-VHS units have filters and hardware that make your VHS tapes look better than any VHS machine can ever hope to do.

So yes, worth it. A thousand times over.

If I made a list of the 10 best things I ever bought in my whole life, the JVC 9800 would be on that list. I'm not exaggerating either.

Beware: The lower end JVC SVHS units do not have a comb filter so understand this going in.

Currently I have 2 with comb filter (Sony R1000 and a NEC that cost me $1000 in the 80's). My lowly JVC-4800U alas, has no comb filter or if it does I don't notice it.

My current interest is in a capture card with a quality 3D comb filter. I just wish ATI would get the Elite 550 working.

what about the jvc HR-S2902U

[edDV]

In simple language, JVC S-VHS units have filters and hardware that make your VHS tapes look better than any VHS machine can ever hope to do.

So yes, worth it. A thousand times over.

If I made a list of the 10 best things I ever bought in my whole life, the JVC 9800 would be on that list. I'm not exaggerating either.

Beware: The lower end JVC SVHS units do not have a comb filter so understand this going in.

Currently I have 2 with comb filter (Sony R1000 and a NEC that cost me $1000 in the 80's). My lowly JVC-4800U alas, has no comb filter or if it does I don't notice it.

My current interest is in a capture card with a quality 3D comb filter. I just wish ATI would get the Elite 550 working.

what about the jvc HR-S2902U

No mention of comb filter here
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000093USD/ref=e_de_a_td/103-3534416-609...s&vi=tech-data

Note that the comb filter is only used for composite or tuner recording. It has no role for S-Video recording or in playback.

[edDV]

In case anyone hasn't mentioned it so far,

Tapes recorded in S-VHS format will not play back on a standard VHS machine. ! be warned.

[lordsmurf]

In case anyone hasn't mentioned it so far,

Tapes recorded in S-VHS format will not play back on a standard VHS machine. ! be warned.

You make this sound like a bad thing?

Many units do SQPB, Super VHS Quasi Playback.

[lacywest]

In case anyone hasn't mentioned it so far,

Tapes recorded in S-VHS format will not play back on a standard VHS machine. ! be warned.

Not exactly true ... it will play back ... but totally strange and very difficult to look at.

I had a friend who wanted to look at my porn movies.

20 minutes or so later ... I walked in the living room and the stupid idiot ... he was looking at a movie from the Hotnet ... and it was recorded with my Mitsubishi Super VHS VCR and the the vcr he was using is not a S-VHS VCR.

He was actually watching it with all those weird colors !!!

[edDV]

Sort of like trying to watch those old analog scrambled premium cable channels.

[TBoneit]

In case anyone hasn't mentioned it so far,

Tapes recorded in S-VHS format will not play back on a standard VHS machine. ! be warned.

You make this sound like a bad thing?

Many units do SQPB, Super VHS Quasi Playback.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but those play a S-VHS tape abd output it as if it were a regular VHS tape with VHS quality output? Meaning that you lose the benefit of the improved S-VHS picture?

LS: Have you had any reliability problems with JVC machines? I ask because I had 2 or 3 in S-VHS in the past including one that was a top of the line consumer model for its day and not one of them kept working very far past the end of the warranty period. The Super high end consumer model Big Buck$ (Flying erase heads etc.) had to be fixed twice under warranty and the third time it died I just gave up on it.

OTOH the Cheapo RCA S-VHS still works.

Anyway end of my JVC experiences.

However I still want a really good machine for tape to VHS transfers so if you could recommend a unit that gives best bang for the buck current models as I do not like used or refurbs. 4videoequipment.com, Where I bought my TBC carries this model but shows it backordered JVC HR-DVS3 MiniDV S-VHS Hi-Fi VCR Deck.

Cheers

[zzyzzx]

One more thing is that SVHS VCR's are pretty cheap these days and no reason to bother with a regular VHS player any more (IMO).

[lacywest]

In case anyone hasn't mentioned it so far,

Tapes recorded in S-VHS format will not play back on a standard VHS machine. ! be warned.

You make this sound like a bad thing?

Many units do SQPB, Super VHS Quasi Playback.

LS: Have you had any reliability problems with JVC machines? I ask because I had 2 or 3 in S-VHS in the past including one that was a top of the line consumer model for its day and not one of them kept working very far past the end of the warranty period. The Super high end consumer model Big Buck$ (Flying erase heads etc.) had to be fixed twice under warranty and the third time it died I just gave up on it.
Anyway end of my JVC experiences.
Cheers

Addon about JVC ... my first S-VHS vcr was a JVC ... and I didn't like it.

I can't remember what I didn't like about it but I have certain criterial to meet my needs and I gave it away ... to my stupid idiot friend.

I then went out on a search and bought a Mitsubishi S-VHS ... and I kept it ... very rugged and it played my old VHS Hi-Fi tapes made with my Sharp VCR.

I did a lot of recordings of VH-1 music channel when they did the marathon A to Z specials during 4th of July and Thanksgiving weekends ... back in 1994 and 1995.

And my Sharp Hi-Fi VCR finally wore out. The JVC did not play them well.

I have a RCA ProScan that does but I figured it will wear out eventually so I started looking for another Hi-Fi VCR and the Mitsubishi played the tapes excellently.

[lordsmurf]

I've had JVC S-VHS machines since the 1990s. No complaints here. Image quality is great, both playback and recording.

SQPB is VHS resolution. I rarely do it, but it's available when needed (not often).

[TBoneit]

Lordsmurf: So maybe I just got two dud/lemom JVC VCRs, different models even, when I tryed them. Because of the good words here about their fixing playback problems when going VHS to DVD I'm giving them another chance. Has to be 10 years since my last try.

TTFN

[lacywest]

I've had JVC S-VHS machines since the 1990s. No complaints here. Image quality is great, both playback and recording.

SQPB is VHS resolution. I rarely do it, but it's available when needed (not often).

Sorry Smurf ... for my negative comments but I was disappointed with it.

I was not happy with the way it behaved.

[greymalkin]

well I'm sold on SVHS...I have been trying to get a good cap of my wedding video using my regular VCR with the regular old RCA inputs and I really feel like I could be getting a much sharper image.

The video was recorded on a VHS tape using a SVHS camera. The guy who filmed it asked me if I wanted on VHS so I could have it right away or SVHS and he would edit it for me...I chose the quick and easy and had him record on VHS...I have never forgiven myself. I can pick a used one up on ebay for around $50

[rkgibbons]

Hey Smurf,

What is the specific product name of your JVC 9800?

I searched for that, but it didn't return anything except video cameras.

I'm assuming the JVC 9800 is a S-VHS player/recorder?

Thanks for any additional info you can provide.

Keith.

[edDV]

well I'm sold on SVHS...I have been trying to get a good cap of my wedding video using my regular VCR with the regular old RCA inputs and I really feel like I could be getting a much sharper image.

The video was recorded on a VHS tape using a SVHS camera. The guy who filmed it asked me if I wanted on VHS so I could have it right away or SVHS and he would edit it for me...I chose the quick and easy and had him record on VHS...I have never forgiven myself. I can pick a used one up on ebay for around $50

Once you opted for VHS tape for recording, the S-VHS camcorder would switch into VHS mode and chop luminance bandwidth below 3MHz (240 lines). Unfortunately, there is no going back.

[greymalkin]

thanks for that info...i was trying to tell myself that there was some extra hidden information in there that would magically appear when played through SVHS

i have committed the first sin of video production...garbage in.

ahh the truth is better for me though..Well if anything I was thinking that being able to capture with an S-Video source would give me a little better clarity than going through rca cables..is this flawed logic as well? Is VHS quality so bad that S-Video wouldn't make much difference?

[Seeker47]

I've had JVC S-VHS machines since the 1990s. No complaints here. Image quality is great, both playback and recording.

You must have been getting the best models. A bench tech I trust told me that they were quite inconsistent, with many of their models developing serious transport problems much too soon.

[edDV]

thanks for that info...i was trying to tell myself that there was some extra hidden information in there that would magically appear when played through SVHS

i have committed the first sin of video production...garbage in.

ahh the truth is better for me though..Well if anything I was thinking that being able to capture with an S-Video source would give me a little better clarity than going through rca cables..is this flawed logic as well? Is VHS quality so bad that S-Video wouldn't make much difference?

That has been the subject of debate. Bottom line, for VHS recordings the difference if any is small.

First order issues,

On playback, the decoded VHS luminance will occupy the <3MHz range, chroma will be centered at 3.58MHz with sidebands that extend +/- 0.5 MHz. So in theory, this allows both signals to be placed on the same wire (composite) without overlap.

S-VHS recordings on the other hand will have luminance extendiing above 4 MHz, so combining the signals on the same wire creates crosstalk between luminance and chrominance. An S-Video connection keeps luma and chroma separate to the next piece of equipment (e.g. capture card).

Second order issues.

In theory, the luminance and chrominance will be separated by frequency on a VHS composite output but in reality filters aren't perfect and some overlap will occur. An S-Video connection will prevent the signals from mixing and hence prevents possible crosstalk.

Some people think they can enhance VHS luminance with analog "detailing filters" which amplify higher VHS frequencies (near 3MHz). When you do this you also increase noise. If this is done with a composite connection, the noise generated around 3MHz will crosstalk into chroma. With S-Video, you can "play" with luminance without directly crosstalking into chroma.

That's about it for VHS. S-VHS recording has different issues due to the bandwidth overlap.

PS the other arguement in favor of S-VHS VCRs for VHS playback is the higher quality of components in all parts of a S-VHS machine. This is true for the higher end S-VHS machines only. Low level machines are on a par with VHS.

Another arguement for playing VHS back on high end S-VHS machines is that some are equipped with internal TBC and noise reduction filters.