Sky Blocks All Their Channels To DVD Recorders

[TwoBells]

Yup,

Last night I got the 'copyright' error on a non copyrighted [or so i thought] channel, this morning SKY DIGITAL confirms that dvd recorders are being blocked from recording their channels.

Its will be an on-going block, so far all SKY MOVIE channels are now blocked but increasingly all channels will be blocked.
SKY Press Office confirms that by 10/06/05 only BBC1 & BBC2 will be recordable.

But surprise, surprise SKY + [SKY'S own hard drive solution] will NOT be blocked.

Anyone thinking that a non-SKY hard drive solution won't be blocked would be wrong.
The ES50 [Panasonic hard drive solution IS blocked]


Welcome to the wonderful world of corporate Britain.


TB

update: 11:16 GMT

SKY Press Office says that they have blocked dvd recorders as the customer could burn off a dvd and keep it.
This is also true of other manufactorers hdd solutions [they suggest you could record a movie to hdd then burn it off to a dvd] but using SKY PLUS [their own hdd solution] they can delete the movie after a certain period.

Update 2: Their own SKY PLUS solution is just as open to copyright 'theft', you can just put a scart from the box to a dvd recorder and burn off a dvd that way, so it increasinly looks like they are making a monopoly play by using copyright legislation to their benefit.

[fmctm1sw]

That stands in stark contrast to the timeshifting provision. Then again, you're in the UK. I guess that timeshifting law is only for us folk... that sucks. Wait till people stop buying DVD recorders since they can't use them anymore...

[TwoBells]

But what about the poor bastards who spent £400 [$700] yesterday on their spanking-new dvdr recorders?


TB

[TwoBells]

That stands in stark contrast to the timeshifting provision. Then again, you're in the UK. I guess that timeshifting law is only for us folk... that sucks. Wait till people stop buying DVD recorders since they can't use them anymore...

"section 84 time-shifting provision so that it applies to all communication works except for communication works available on-demand."

Sky Digital is 'available on demand'.




TB

[DJTekno]

Smells like BS to me.....................have recorded movies directly from a sky box to my Panasonic E65 stand-alone, without any problems (within the last 24 hours)....

Where, pray tell did you get this wonderful bit of information from?? Links at all, because i can't find ANYTHING on the sky site to substanciate this.

DJT

[ROF]

Home Box Office(HBO) would go out of business if the US Broadcasters decided to do something like this. I can't think of a single person that watched the Soprano's live. Most people I know either work, are busy doing other things, or watching another station while recording that show for later viewing. Alot of HBO Specials are like that for most folks.

What about the people who record Daytime Soap Operas to watch in the evening when they get home?

If this were true in the US, I'd imagine alot of cable TVs would go blank in the US as the outrageous bill at the end of the month from the cable company wouldn't be justified by the limited amount of shows you could watch live.

[thor300]

But you can still record directly to the DVD recorder by using an analog signal? As you say in your "Update 2" you can just hook up a scart to the DVD recorder to record from the Sky-Plus.

[TwoBells]

Smells like BS to me.....................have recorded movies directly from a sky box to my Panasonic E65 stand-alone, without any problems (within the last 24 hours)....

Where, pray tell did you get this wonderful bit of information from?? Links at all, because i can't find ANYTHING on the sky site to substanciate this.

DJT

I only hope it is BS, I got my info from SKY Corporate Publicity, PANASONIC UK and TOSHIBA UK.

Was the channel you recorded a SKY MOVIES or SKY CINEMA channel?

TB

[donpedro]

What about this ? Maybe you just need to record to right media.

You can record digital broadcasts that allow “One time only recording” when using CPRM (Content Protection for Recordable Media) compatible discs (page 53). You cannot transfer (dub) a recorded title.

also

It is not possible to record CPRM (page 53) protected material
onto DVD-R or 2.8 GB DVD-RAM discs.

and

CPRM (Content Protection for Recordable Media)
CPRM is technology used to protect broadcasts that are allowed to
be recorded only once. Such broadcasts can be recorded only with
CPRM compatible recorders and discs.

[donpedro]

For example.... on these look for words "With copy-protection scheme" and "Support CPRM code" or "It includes CPRM that can protect copyright"

http://www.meritline.com/ritek-dvd-rw-dvdrw-blank-media-4x-ridata-branded.html
http://www.meritline.com/optodisc-dvd-ram-disc-media-cartridge.html

[TwoBells]

But you can still record directly to the DVD recorder by using an analog signal? As you say in your "Update 2" you can just hook up a scart to the DVD recorder to record from the Sky-Plus.

I'll try now.


TB

[TwoBells]

What about this ? Maybe you just need to record to right media.

You can record digital broadcasts that allow “One time only recording” when using CPRM (Content Protection for Recordable Media) compatible discs (page 53). You cannot transfer (dub) a recorded title.

also

It is not possible to record CPRM (page 53) protected material
onto DVD-R or 2.8 GB DVD-RAM discs.

and

CPRM (Content Protection for Recordable Media)
CPRM is technology used to protect broadcasts that are allowed to
be recorded only once. Such broadcasts can be recorded only with
CPRM compatible recorders and discs.

I am using the PANASONIC DVD-RAM disks which I believe allows for this?

TB

[DJTekno]

Smells like BS to me.....................have recorded movies directly from a sky box to my Panasonic E65 stand-alone, without any problems (within the last 24 hours)....

Where, pray tell did you get this wonderful bit of information from?? Links at all, because i can't find ANYTHING on the sky site to substanciate this.

DJT

I only hope it is BS, I got my info from SKY Corporate Publicity, PANASONIC UK and TOSHIBA UK.

Was the channel you recorded a SKY MOVIES or SKY CINEMA channel?

TB

Yes the channel was Sky Movies 2.

However, i was recording from a SKY+ box anyway..................... maybe the plus boxes haven't been blocked???

Will try this evening from my multi-room normal sky digibox.

DJT

[TwoBells]

Yes the channel was Sky Movies 2.

However, i was recording from a SKY+ box anyway..................... maybe the plus boxes haven't been blocked???

Will try this evening from my multi-room normal sky digibox.

DJT[/quote]

Ah, there you go, I stated in my post that SKY + [suprise suprise] is the only recording solution exempt as Sky supposedly can 'manage the content'.
Have you ever had a film deleted from your hdd by SKY?
No-one i know has, this would give them a total monopoly.

TB

[bugster]

Yup,

Last night I got the 'copyright' error on a non copyrighted [or so i thought] channel, this morning SKY DIGITAL confirms that dvd recorders are being blocked from recording their channels.

Which Channel?
AFAIK, it is NOT POSSIBLE to block DVD recorder specifically.

Its will be an on-going block, so far all SKY MOVIE channels are now blocked but increasingly all channels will be blocked.
SKY Press Office confirms that by 10/06/05 only BBC1 & BBC2 will be recordable.

I have just this moment recorded a short clip from SKY Movies 1. No problems

But surprise, surprise SKY + [SKY'S own hard drive solution] will NOT be blocked.

Of course, recording to SKY+ internal HD will not be blocked. This is limted in size and so it is not a practical solution for long term archiving.

Anyone thinking that a non-SKY hard drive solution won't be blocked would be wrong.
The ES50 [Panasonic hard drive solution IS blocked]

SKy boxes, (+ or otherwise) have no way of detecting a HD, Disk only DVD recorder, VHS or PC on the end of the analog outputs. SO its all or nothing.

SKY Press Office says that they have blocked dvd recorders as the customer could burn off a dvd and keep it.
This is also true of other manufactorers hdd solutions [they suggest you could record a movie to hdd then burn it off to a dvd] but using SKY PLUS [their own hdd solution] they can delete the movie after a certain period.

Link Please?
Again, Sky have no way of detecting if a recording device is a HD device or not

Update 2: Their own SKY PLUS solution is just as open to copyright 'theft', you can just put a scart from the box to a dvd recorder and burn off a dvd that way, so it increasinly looks like they are making a monopoly play by using copyright legislation to their benefit.

No. If the digital Video signal contained a Macrovision or CGMS flag, it would be output on the Analog out of the SKY+ box same as for a normal Digibox. Of course, you can still record to the SKY+ internal HD, but outputting to another recording device is just the same as with a normal Sky Digibox except you can choose WHEN to do it, it doesan't have to be 'live'


I think you are either misunderstanding the situation or this is a load of BS. Sky Box office (PPV) has been macrovision protected for several years but the rest of the channels have not. If sky were to add Macrovision or CGMS to all other channels, their subscriber numbers would go through the floor overnight and I could see some lawsuits as UK Law specifically allows home recording for personal use.

[DJTekno]

As per Bugster above, have just recorded part of Harry potter & the chamber of secrets both from the sky + and from the normal sky digibox.....both perfect..

Verdict : COMPLETE & UTTER HORLICKS!!!

So, mr journalist 2 bells, who supposedly was told this DIRECTLY by Panasonic, and by Sky - CARE TO EXPLAIN ? ? ? ? Links or copies of emails to back up your claim, especially your nice PM to me earlier on today??

DJT

[bugster]

Another post by TwoBells

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=269007&highlight=

Hey All

I am trying to remain calm here, but my Panasonic DMR E60 did it first 'recover' today and this evening when I attempted to record a NON copyrighted film, i got 'cannot record this copyright material'!

I even telephoned SKY Digital TV and confirmed that the broadcast wasn't protected....
Then I tried all my other film channels and got the same error!

What could possibly be wrong?
I haven't touched my cables or changed any hardware in any way.

Pls advise soonest!


TB

So which is it TwoBells. Two posts with exactly the OPPOSITE Information. Make your mind up.

[canadateck]

I think you need to buy a new (DVD Recorder) seems to be giving FALSE MV.

[DJTekno]

Either that, or we've got a saying here in the uk.................

AND IT SEEMS HE'S FULL OF IT!!!

seriously though, i wonder what could be causing the problems here for 2 bells?? Dodgy recorder or dodgy SCART lead maybe?? So, if you want to cut thru the BS Mr.Bells & give us the real story, i'm sure there are people here who would have the knowledge to help you. Dressing it up or panic-posting isn't the way.

Just my 2p's worth.

DJT

[Bix]

Is this only for the channels owned by Sky (Sky Sports, Sky Movie, etc) or everything on their satellite service? I know various people who record what airs on The Wrestling Channel for permanent storage.

[TwoBells]

As per Bugster above, have just recorded part of Harry potter & the chamber of secrets both from the sky + and from the normal sky digibox.....both perfect..

Verdict : COMPLETE & UTTER HORLICKS!!!

So, mr journalist 2 bells, who supposedly was told this DIRECTLY by Panasonic, and by Sky - CARE TO EXPLAIN ? ? ? ? Links or copies of emails to back up your claim, especially your nice PM to me earlier on today??

DJT

Why on earth do you keep demanding links and proprietary emails?
This is all from telephone conversations I had since the problem first appeared and contacted SKY.
Their support centres received the above info regarding panasonic, toshiba and other make dvd recorders recently.
All I have done is try to clarify the situation.
You seem to be attributing me with these comments.
I think you are purposely being obtuse for your own reasons.

TB

[bugster]

As per Bugster above, have just recorded part of Harry potter & the chamber of secrets both from the sky + and from the normal sky digibox.....both perfect..

Verdict : COMPLETE & UTTER HORLICKS!!!

So, mr journalist 2 bells, who supposedly was told this DIRECTLY by Panasonic, and by Sky - CARE TO EXPLAIN ? ? ? ? Links or copies of emails to back up your claim, especially your nice PM to me earlier on today??

DJT

Why on earth do you keep demanding links and proprietary emails?
This is all from telephone conversations I had since the problem first appeared and contacted SKY.
Their support centres received the above info regarding panasonic, toshiba and other make dvd recorders recently.
All I have done is try to clarify the situation.
You seem to be attributing me with these comments.
I think you are purposely being obtuse for your own reasons.

TB

Err, but you were the one that wrote:

I even telephoned SKY Digital TV and confirmed that the broadcast wasn't protected....

and

SKY DIGITAL confirms that dvd recorders are being blocked from recording their channels.

Both can't be right. Which is it?

Oh, and no-one can yet confirm your story because no-one else has had this problem.


You also said

SKY Press Office says that they have blocked dvd recorders as the customer could burn off a dvd and keep it.

If you have got info out of Sky's press office, you must be an accredited journalist, or they wouldn't tell you anything.
If you are an accredited journalist, why is this story not all over the UK news sites by now?

[TwoBells]

Another post by TwoBells


So which is it TwoBells. Two posts with exactly the OPPOSITE Information. Make your mind up.

How is anything I put in the previous post 'opposite' in any way to my original post?

Here are both statements:

This post:

Last night I got the 'copyright' error on a non copyrighted [or so i thought] channel, this morning SKY DIGITAL confirms that dvd recorders are being blocked from recording their channels.

Its will be an on-going block, so far all SKY MOVIE channels are now blocked but increasingly all channels will be blocked.
SKY Press Office confirms that by 10/06/05 only BBC1 & BBC2 will be recordable.

But surprise, surprise SKY + [SKY'S own hard drive solution] will NOT be blocked.

Anyone thinking that a non-SKY hard drive solution won't be blocked would be wrong.
The ES50 [Panasonic hard drive solution IS blocked]

Original post:

I am trying to remain calm here, but my Panasonic DMR E60 did it first 'recover' today and this evening when I attempted to record a NON copyrighted film, i got 'cannot record this copyright material'!

I even telephoned SKY Digital TV and confirmed that the broadcast wasn't protected....
Then I tried all my other film channels and got the same error!

What could possibly be wrong?
I haven't touched my cables or changed any hardware in any way.

END POST

It was only by discovering that the NON BOX OFFICE content was being macrovisioned did I contact the various companies involved and asked for clarification details of which I then placed in my post.



I believe you are being antognistic for reasons best known to yourself.


TB

[TwoBells]

As per Bugster above, have just recorded part of Harry potter & the chamber of secrets both from the sky + and from the normal sky digibox.....both perfect..

Verdict : COMPLETE & UTTER HORLICKS!!!

So, mr journalist 2 bells, who supposedly was told this DIRECTLY by Panasonic, and by Sky - CARE TO EXPLAIN ? ? ? ? Links or copies of emails to back up your claim, especially your nice PM to me earlier on today??

DJT

Why on earth do you keep demanding links and proprietary emails?
This is all from telephone conversations I had since the problem first appeared and contacted SKY.
Their support centres received the above info regarding panasonic, toshiba and other make dvd recorders recently.
All I have done is try to clarify the situation.
You seem to be attributing me with these comments.
I think you are purposely being obtuse for your own reasons.

TB

Err, but you were the one that wrote:

I even telephoned SKY Digital TV and confirmed that the broadcast wasn't protected....

and

SKY DIGITAL confirms that dvd recorders are being blocked from recording their channels.

Both can't be right. Which is it?

?

Are you truly that thick or just overly suspicious?

Obviously between contacting SKY last night and being told that the content wasn't being blocked and this morning talking to a level 2 support engineer who clarified that other content than BOX OFFICE was being blocked.

[bugster]

Here are both statements:

This post:

Last night I got the 'copyright' error on a non copyrighted [or so i thought] channel, this morning SKY DIGITAL confirms that dvd recorders are being blocked from recording their channels.

SNIP...

Original post:
SNIP...

I even telephoned SKY Digital TV and confirmed that the broadcast wasn't protected....
I believe you are being antognistic for reasons best known to yourself.


TB

A Channel is either copy protected or it is not. It is not possible to block DVD recorders without blocking other devices. It is possible they are using CGMS which modern DVD recorders are more likley to recognise than an older VCR. But the conflict remains, either a channel (or perhaps individual program) is either copy protected or it is not. You two posts say it both that it was proteced (DVD recorders being blocked) and it is not protected. Make your mind up.

BTW, just how did you get SKY's press office to provide this information if you are NOT an accredited journalist?

The reason you claim I am antaganositic is because you have no way of backing up your claims and evidence from myself and others suggests very strongly that you are wrong.

If in the next few days I am proved incorrect, I will apologise, but at the moment I smell BS.

[TwoBells]

You also said

SKY Press Office says that they have blocked dvd recorders as the customer could burn off a dvd and keep it.

If you have got info out of Sky's press office, you must be an accredited journalist, or they wouldn't tell you anything.
If you are an accredited journalist, why is this story not all over the UK news sites by now?[/quote]

Gabby Bennett at Sky Corporate Press Office is clarifiying the situation and I've been promised a comment tomorrow before 1100.
Haynet publishing [what hi fi sound and vision] are aware of the situation and monitoring.


TB

[TwoBells]

The reason you claim I am antaganositic is because you have no way of backing up your claims and evidence from myself and others suggests very strongly that you are wrong.

If in the next few days I am proved incorrect, I will apologise, but at the moment I smell BS.[/quote]


BS from whom?
Not from me, all i have done is report on what Sky themselves state.
Thats like shooting the messenger for getting bad news.
If the information from SKY themselves is confused and wrong even up to corporate level then thats a huge story as well, showing incompetence and ignorance at the highest level.

If SKY are incorrect then lets wait and see, but I can't see any reason why perfectly working dvd recorders now error out with the 'copyright' message, cabling and hardware having been untouched for months, working perfectly and the sky card reports as working 100% but i'm not a electrical engineer so I have to take what I am told on faith.

TB

[RealaT]

Well i've just set my Panny E50 off recording and flicked through the 9 main movie channels on my plain (ie, not plus) sky box and it recorded them fine.

make of that what you will.

[TwoBells]

ok, Panasonic UK in yet another phonecall say that the only way that you'd get that 'error message is if the broadcaster has either :

1: changed their encryption routines to certain channels.
2: doing any testing.

He then sought clarity from a colleague who stated that indeed sky ARE currently running tests on their new dolby digital signal, which is as standard encrypted.
And that this 'test' is on the same signal that we recieve for normal viewing.
It may be that some people's hardware is becoming confused.

Also, all sky content is encrypted its just until recently only the pbv channels have been blocked from recording.

Whats interesting is that the channels that are now blocked to me are only the top sky package and the one below.
They had me go through the 'SKY WORLD' package, all channels of which are blocked to me.
They then had me go through the 'SKY MOVIES WITH FAMILY' package again which was blocked.
ALL other channels remain unblocked and record fine.

TB

[andydd]

Ha..This is the most confusing bunch of posts Ive ever seen.

I still have no idea wether SKY have/are/are planning to make DVD recorders unable to record digital tv channels.

I recorded some stuff fine last night although I havnt got Sky Movies and also mine is supplied by cable (Telewest).

I very much doubt wether it is true because thousands of people (me included !) would quickly cancel their subscription !