Which recorders have best quality?

[cloning is fun]

Do all recorders record at the same bit rate and resolution for HQ and SP, etc or are there some that record at higher bit rates and resolution than others at say SLP and consequently make a difference in quality especially at long play speeds?

I just purchased a recorder and am very happy with the quality at HQ and SP but believe anything below that leaves a lot to be desired on at 57" TV. I'm in the process of copying some of my VHS tapes that I had recorded in the past and am noticing that some tapes I recorded on a 4 head HI FI in 6 hour mode have pretty good quality. You could really get a lot on those tapes with, I think, better quality than what I get at 6 hour mode on DVD.

So, do any recorders, report in their SPECIFICATIONS, that they record at higher bit rates and resolution than others?

THANKS!

[zorankarapancev]

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264325

[Frobozz]

HQ and SP can mean different things with different brands. Different brands have different encoders. The picture quality is not merely a function of bit rate and resolution.

I have a Pioneer recorder and it has the option for 32 different bit rate/resolution settings. Therefore it is possible to choose a maximum setting that nearly fills a DVD depending on the length of the program being burned.

I have no personal knowledge whether the Pioneer picture looks better or worse than others at a similar bit rate and resolution (although there was a recent thread here that had screen shots favorably showing Pioneer recordings compared with some other brands).

My recommendation is for you to use recorder settings that have full resolution (720 X 480 if NTSC). Anything less than that will not please you regardless of what brand of recorder you use.

[DaveS]

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264325

I'll have to read that thread..hadn't seen it looks interesting..

I selected the Sony a while back b/c of it's 12 bit digital to analog conversion running at 108 mhz, which in my estimation gave better conversion that 10 bit DACs...so in response to the thread, that's what I can say...I was very impressed w/ the sony conversion..

It looks like other brands may now be going that way...would be interesting to see what sony has done since then in it's converter vs the other prods now coming to market..

[lordsmurf]

Wait for DVD-R DL recorders is you want large space available. Also, I won't take a Panasonic if it was free.

[handyguy]

https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders

yeah, but the new Panasonics are going to be able to do 500 lines resolution in LP mode.

[donpedro]

Also, I won't take a Panasonic if it was free.

I don't believe you Anyway... Why ?

[SFMedic]

Hello Everyone,

As of this past Monday, I finally received my JVC s9911u deck so I can also connect it with my new JVC DR-M10. Question, shouldn't I be able to just connect both systems via the S-Video cable with the red/white RCA cables. I'm wanting to copy my VHS tapes onto a DvD-RW disc and feed into the PC for anymore fine detail work. I'm using my 42" tv as a monitor, using the front S-Video RCA inputs and I'm not getting a signal from the VCR to the DvD recorder, unless when I connect either of units separately, not sure what I'm doing wrong..??? Just trying to figure out the proper way to set up this system, plus I also have a ADVC-300 and Sign Video DR-1000 image enhancer?

Appreciate any suggestions regarding this, thanks in advance..!!!!

[zorankarapancev]

I'll have to read that thread..hadn't seen it looks interesting..

I selected the Sony a while back b/c of it's 12 bit digital to analog conversion running at 108 mhz, which in my estimation gave better conversion that 10 bit DACs...so in response to the thread, that's what I can say...I was very impressed w/ the sony conversion..

DaveS,

Probably you didn’t notice that the technological breakthrough with the newest Panasonic DVD recorders is in using a 12-bit A/D converter (analog to digital conversion - the front end of the recorder). For digitizing analog signals from VHS tapes and TV programs, Sony (as any other manufacturer of DVD recorders) is still using the old 10-bit A/D conversion technology.

I share your sentiment that until now the Sony was the best DVD recorder on the market.

[trhouse]

Here are some test results for the Panasonic DMR-ES10 I did recently in XP mode. Although some UK sites claim this unit has a 12 bit AD converter, the specifications in the operating manual do not mention it. I found no US sites that make that claim.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263530

I have been thinking about doing a test of the 500 line 2x LP mode, but I wonder if it is the same as 352 by 480 mode.

[zorankarapancev]

I agree with gshelley61 opinion that the recordings look impressive.

Although some UK sites claim this unit has a 12 bit AD converter, the specifications in the operating manual do not mention it.

You will never find that information for any Panasonic DVD recorder in their operating manuals.

[gshelley61]

Hello Everyone,

As of this past Monday, I finally received my JVC s9911u deck so I can also connect it with my new JVC DR-M10. Question, shouldn't I be able to just connect both systems via the S-Video cable with the red/white RCA cables. I'm wanting to copy my VHS tapes onto a DvD-RW disc and feed into the PC for anymore fine detail work. I'm using my 42" tv as a monitor, using the front S-Video RCA inputs and I'm not getting a signal from the VCR to the DvD recorder, unless when I connect either of units separately, not sure what I'm doing wrong..??? Just trying to figure out the proper way to set up this system, plus I also have a ADVC-300 and Sign Video DR-1000 image enhancer?

Appreciate any suggestions regarding this, thanks in advance..!!!!

In the JVC DR-M10 recorder utility menu, make sure you have "s-video" selected for the front input. If you are attempting to copy a commercial copy protected VHS tape, you will see nothing because the DVD recorder will sense the copy protection signal and shut off the input... that's normal. If that is what you are doing, you still will need to defeat copy protection with either a full frame TBC, or a copy box like the Sima "Copy This".

[handyguy]

cloning should have asked us before buying one, but thats how it is sometimes.

[cloning is fun]

I appreciate all the replies!

[FulciLives]

I read this thread quickly but I don't think anyone mentioned the Pioneer line of stand alone DVD recorders.

It seems that the JVC stand alone DVD recorders might have a very slight edge in image quality but the difference seems very little and the facts are that Pioneer models seem to have less problems (i.e., perform more trouble free than JVC) ... plus Pioneer has models with a built-in HDD which is a very nice feature to have.

So my vote goes to Pioneer.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[kenmasters83]

i record a lot of toons and tv series i can tell a difference between HQ and SP instantly on a PC monitor and a small difference on a non hdtv..

the ILO dvd recorder averages around 8.0 to 9.0 mbps.i love the picture quality of the recorder i just wish it was possible to have HQ setting for a 2 hour movie...(drools)...

HQ mode is the way to go for the best possible picture quality hands down.

[lordsmurf]

Also, I won't take a Panasonic if it was free.

I don't believe you Anyway... Why ?

It's a hassle. The machines have a whole list of flaws, the most aggravating one being hard disk failures and refusing to power on. The dead disks must be replaced, or do some voodoo to split files to salvage them. The power error requires the unit be cycled off unplugged for 3-5 hours each time. The Panasonic equipment has more mechanical errors than a Pioneer, LiteOn or JVC .. though not quite to the king of crappy hardware, Philips.

And once you cut through all the Panasonic mess, you're still only able to use the machine up to about 2½ hours before the image quality takes a severe nosedive. UNLIKE OTHER RECORDERS, which are fine up to 3-4 hours.

Until they totally redesign the way their encoder works, which is likely based on the crappy embarassment software Panasonic MPEG Encoder from years ago, extra bits are not going to help.

If people have this love of a name brand, knock yourself out. I think it's stupid. I tried equipment continuously until I found one that provides top notch output and has minimal hardware errors (if any).

I was never much fond of Pioneer. But their DVD recorder works great, much like their burners. JVC made a good VCR, but I hated their CD stuff. Another excellent DVD recorder, easily the best one. I was not too familiar with LiteOn beyond CD burners, but their DVD writers and recorders have turned out quite nice in the past couple years.

I go where the quality is. Name brand can bite me.

Sure, I'll likely try to the "super uper duper new and improved" Panasonic in the near future, but I've heard this song and dance from them before. "Try us again, the new ones are better this time." Blah blah blah. If anything, each model seems to only get worse, due to cheaper parts, rushed R&D, and failure to fix errors of earlier generations (TRULY FIX THEM!).

As usual, the new models are all spouting "more detail, more detail" but blocks be damned. What's the point of "more detail" if it just enhances mosquito noise and adds EVEN MORE macroblocks to a unit well hated for this flaw already?

[linetest]

Well, I have now experienced Liteon. And you couldn't possibly rate it higher than a Panasonic or Pioneer could you?
The Liteon is great I suppose only for it's abilities after a MV hack. But the recording quality is not great IMO. You may not like the big brand names, but the lesser known units aren't exactly impressive either based on my experience, and hundreds before me. I think I'll try the Panasonic or the Pioneer. I don't want to tinker with a machine, only use it.

[lordsmurf]

Yes, the LiteOn would easily be an upgrade for a Panasonic, in certain situations.

[cloning is fun]

This is really getting good. Thanks everyone!

[mr_strong]

If you want the best in terms of image quality then Sony beez the best. It beats JVC and Pioneer, but the Sony gots way too many gay design/edititing flaws. If yo ass gots one of those Sony hard drive units, you cant even divide, create chapters, or burn just pieces you want. you can't copy or play certain shit unless its from Sony. All kind of wack shit. If you want the be4st all around quality, user friendly, features, then I would pick Pioneer even though that shits got some stupid flaws too, like the ugly ass menu's that don't even show up when you play the DVD. It goes straight to the program and it got some gay ass chapters that are too long at 10 mins or 15 mins.

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning. Try to limit profanity a little more in the future, huh? Thanks.
/ Moderator lordsmurf

[SFMedic]

Hello Everyone,

As of this past Monday, I finally received my JVC s9911u deck so I can also connect it with my new JVC DR-M10. Question, shouldn't I be able to just connect both systems via the S-Video cable with the red/white RCA cables. I'm wanting to copy my VHS tapes onto a DvD-RW disc and feed into the PC for anymore fine detail work. I'm using my 42" tv as a monitor, using the front S-Video RCA inputs and I'm not getting a signal from the VCR to the DvD recorder, unless when I connect either of units separately, not sure what I'm doing wrong..??? Just trying to figure out the proper way to set up this system, plus I also have a ADVC-300 and Sign Video DR-1000 image enhancer?

Appreciate any suggestions regarding this, thanks in advance..!!!!

In the JVC DR-M10 recorder utility menu, make sure you have "s-video" selected for the front input. If you are attempting to copy a commercial copy protected VHS tape, you will see nothing because the DVD recorder will sense the copy protection signal and shut off the input... that's normal. If that is what you are doing, you still will need to defeat copy protection with either a full frame TBC, or a copy box like the Sima "Copy This".

GShelly, my tapes are home made family videos that I'm just trying to transfer to DvD. I wasn't sure if I needed to go through some type of setup function while connected to the tv through either the VCR or DvD player. I was under the impression, I would just connect both units from the back through their respective S-Video / RCA jacks, and not have to do much of anything else, am I missing something here...??? Lordsmurf, would you be so kind to provide some insight regarding the proper setup, I've read over the manual several times and still can't figure out, where I've missed a step with either my connections, or setup functions through the tv, thanks in advance...!!!!

[oldfart13]

"The machines have a whole list of flaws, the most aggravating one being hard disk failures and refusing to power on."

Bought mine in October 2003 and never had a problem. It's on right now recording an old VHS to a DVD-RAM (the HDD is full again *sigh*). I've never had a fault with it. I'm in the market for new equipment and might consider Panasonic again after MY experiences. Just buy what's right for YOU and what your needs are. I'm certain they are not the same as anyone elses...

[D'oh!]

Pioneer is a very reliable machine. Picture quality is good but it's a bit too sensitive when it comes to some "input". Also the Picture isn't as "clean" as it should be. Very "sharp" but "grainy". I have seen it noted in another forum; if you freeze frame and then frame advance you will see "shifting grain". It's true.

The ILO/Liteon actually has great picture quality. Less "noisy" than Pioneer. It had "green tint" issues at one time but that is solved with new firmware.

I would choose the ILO because it's cheap, offers HACKS to remove macrovision, delivers a great picture and uses plus disks. When the next wave of recorders come along you won't be out a lot of cash to upgrade. Also, you can buy a 3 year repair/replace plan from walmart for $16.

For the best picture quality, my money is on the new 12-bit DAC systems though.

D'oh!

[samijubal]

I tried a Pioneer for one movie and returned it, too grainy just like you said. The Panasonic was better.

[Marvingj]

You can go wrong with JVC, Pioneer, Sony.....New Addition Lite On, ILO, are very Solid.

[pinksock]

Im not too particular on name brands but since Panasonic 's got this 12Bit D/A converter and more than 500 lines of resolution. Im leaning more towards getting one of these. I've heard that standalones do a better job than capturing than do through the PC. I currently have a JVC S-VHS (s-video) capture card setup, and not satisfied with the results. There was just too much quality degradation. With this standalone DVDR setup, I should get the same or better quality of my S-VHS. With Panasonics 12Bit D/A Converter, correct me if im wrong.

I agree with gshelley61 opinion that the recordings look impressive.

Although some UK sites claim this unit has a 12 bit AD converter, the specifications in the operating manual do not mention it.

You will never find that information for any Panasonic DVD recorder in their operating manuals.

I wonder why they don't ?

[edDV]

A 12 bit D/A would only affect DVD playback. A 10 bit A/D would be nice.

The DVD would still be recorded 8 bit but with a 10 bit A/D, digital preprocessing could be done.

[pinksock]

I noticed all of Panasonic's more expensive models have TBC but only use the 10bit D/A converter. While the newer ES models have no TBC, but 12bit D/A, and :

Real-Time Variable Bit Rate Control
Integrated Noise Reduction(NR)
Visibility Modulation Technology

Does anybody know what these mean? is a 10bit converter with TBC better than a 12bit without?

[/quote][/code]

[zorankarapancev]

I noticed all of Panasonic's more expensive models have TBC but only use the 10bit D/A converter. While the newer ES models have no TBC, but 12bit D/A, and :

Quote:

Real-Time Variable Bit Rate Control
Integrated Noise Reduction(NR)
Visibility Modulation Technology

Does anybody know what these mean? is a 10bit converter with TBC better than a 12bit without?

The new Panasonic models are completely redesigned and all of them nave 12 bit A/D (not D/A) converters, TBC 3D Y/C separation circuitry and 3D digital noise reduction.

edDV
Posted: Apr 10, 2005 04:08*
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A 12 bit D/A would only affect DVD playback. A 10 bit A/D would be nice.

The DVD would still be recorded 8 bit but with a 10 bit A/D, digital preprocessing could be done.pinksock
Posted: Apr 10, 2005 03:38*
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im not too particular on name brands but since Panasonic 's got this 12Bit D/A converter and more than 500 lines of resolution. Im leaning more towards getting one of these. I've heard that standalones do a better job than capturing than do through the PC. I currently have a JVC S-VHS (s-video) capture card setup, and not satisfied with the results. There was just too much quality degradation. With this standalone DVDR setup, I should get the same or better quality of my S-VHS. With Panasonics 12Bit D/A Converter, correct me if im wrong.

The new Panasonic models have 12bit A/D (nanolg to digital) converetrs, not 12bit D/A (digital to analog) converters.