Renewed hopes for Dish Network and PCI sat tuners

[slicemaster102]

Well,
I have posted this in some other forums but it hasn’t been discussed her yet, so here it is. This post should yield some good information for you folks here.

Posted by myself on Doom9 forums

Well,
I am farley new to this satellite TV stuff but I’ve been reading a lot on this subject and from what I understand Dish Network programs are not 100% DVB-S compliant streams because they use a unsupported modulation mode (8PSK) that is not supported under the DVB-S standard (DVB-S uses QPSK). Anyways the DVB development forum is releasing a new standard called DVB-S2 sometime this summer that will support many new features as well as a wider array of modulation types, including 8psk! Anyways, from what I understand Dish Network is a standard DVB-S stream except for the fact that they use a nonstandard modulation type, but this should all end once DVB-S2 is finalized as DVB-S2 supports 8psk modulation among with three others (QPSK, 16APSK, and 32APSK). This should mean that Dish Network will be 100% DVB-S2 compliant and therefore compatible with the next generation of PCI and USB satellite receiver boards/boxes (AKA those featuring a DVB-S2 compliant chipset). However, this does not mean that the programming will all of a sudden become “free to air”. Dish Network protects their programming by scrambling it with NAGRAVISION, however with the appropriate CAM and smartcard (your Dish Network subscription card) this should be fairly easy to overcome. The only thing that might be standing in Dish Network subscribers’ ways are the fact that their smartcard is “married” to their receiver but that might not even matter with a computer based receiver card/box, and even if it does you could probably get a smartcard married to your computers receiver card/box.

The fact that this might just be the light at the end of the tunnel for so many Dish Network subscribers in search of the ultimate PVR (one that can record programming on many different channels at the same time) or media center PC made me want to share this information with you.

Signed,
Slice

P.S. DVB-S2 is completely backwards compatible with DVB-S
P.P.S. You can record several different channels simultaneously, but all of them must be on the same transponder.
P.P.P.S. Here is a link to the DVB-S2
White Paper ----> check out the DVB website (cant post link)

Also note: since I posted this on the Doom9 forums I have discovered that Dish Network uses their own version of Nagravision 1 and 2. The only change to the standard nagravision encryption scheme is the use of a “BOXKEY”. This “BOXKEY” is what “Marries” your smartcard to your receiver and its built-in CAM.

Signed,
Slice

[PC Master]

The problem is that using a PC to receive even programming which you currently subscribe to is still a grey area. Dish doesn't want it to happen since they would lose out on the fees they can charge for their PVR services and so forth. Additionally, without Dish's support, you'd have to find a way to either break the encryption scheme (has been done I'm sure) or emulate at least portions of the Dish hardware, which Dish won't like at all.

[Vanderlow]

Make sure you don't out and out talk about anything illegal or you'll get banned or thread closed. I wonder when these DVB-S2 cards will be out?

[PC Master]

Actually, I'd suppose the best compromise to solve this issue would be to provide some form of supported (by Dish Network) receiving of your subscription on the PC. Perhaps by using a DVB-S card with a CAM module and your Dish access card.

[slicemaster102]

Actually, I'd suppose the best compromise to solve this issue would be to provide some form of supported (by Dish Network) receiving of your subscription on the PC. Perhaps by using a DVB-S card with a CAM module and your Dish access card.

This is exactly what I am theorizing will work. There are CAMs available right now that support Dish Networks version of Nagravision (all the Matrix CAMs can do it). Anyways this type of use is somewhat in the “gray area” when pertaining to legal or illegal like Vanderlow said. It all comes down to fare use in my opinion. If I pay for a service I expect to be able to use it on what ever equipment I wish, this not only includes PC sat tuners but also after market set top box receivers. Anyways just to inform you of what is different about dish networks version of Nagravision here it is. Their implementation has what is called a BOXKEY field. This BOXKEY is what marries your smart card to your sat receiver. Anyways this BOXKEY can be extracted from your sat receiver and programmed into a compatible CAM. Then theoretically the smartcard wouldn’t know the difference between the sat receiver it’s married to and the programmed CAM.

Slice

P.S. PC Master, I agree, I sure wish Dish Network would issue authenticated CAMs for receiving their service but it is unlikely at best to happen anytime soon as they are just way to greedy to do that. Maybe once MS Media Center PCs take off, MS might be able to coax them into this.
P.P.S. none of this is illegal either by the way. just gray area, and INHO it’s FARE USE.

[slicemaster101]

BuMpBuMp

[junkmalle]

It all comes down to fare use in my opinion.

Heheh. Yes, they want to charge a fare for your fair use!

[slicemaster101]

It all comes down to fare use in my opinion.

Heheh. Yes, they want to charge a fare for your fair use!

oops....TYPEO...wont bother to fix it though...people get the idea :P

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