Best HDD recorder for VHS transfer & commercials editing

[tdweis]

I am trying to decide between getting the Pioneer DVR-220 special at walmart.com, or holding out, spending more dough & getting a hard-disk drive DVD recorder. I want to be able to make good transfers of my 300+ VHS library to DVD, but also to be able to cut commercials easily. Two questions:

1) Of the HDD recorders out there (JVC, Pioneer, Toshiba, Panny Sony), which ones are particularly easy for light editing (just commercials) & VHS-to-DVD transfer?

2) Would the Pioneer 220 be a more cost-efficient solution & still be able to handle those 2 main tasks?

After reading a LOT of posts on this excellent site over the past 2 months, I am leaning toward a stand-alone DVD recorder solution rather than doing these things on a PC. Any guidance would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

[handyguy]

Get one with a HD if you can.

More topics:
https://www.videohelp.com/dvdrecorders

[akrako1]

If you've got a dvd burner already on your pc, I would suggest getting a dvr-220 (or 320 if you've got a dv camcorder with firewire) and using it in conjunction with your computer. I've got a DVR-320 and I do all my VHS to DVD conversion on that (on re-recordables), then import the mpegs into my computer. From there I use TMPEnc DVD Author, which has excellent cutting abilities, and will never need to re-encode your video. I've never had any sync issues, or problems with formats. In my opinion, computer based authoring is the way to go. Most of the stand-alone units just don't have the capabilities. If you want to make clean looking menus with backgrounds, animated menus and buttons - you'll need something more versatile. With computer based authoring, you can at least use your own pictures for the background, instead of being stuck with their presets...

Anyways, just my $.02 [/i]

[victoriabears]

I have over 1000 vhs to do, and 100% agree, Tmpg editor creates more accurate cuts BTW, but editing on a dvd recording is hard work and not very nice result.

Better than computer mpeg capturing in my humble.

Get a decent vcr in the first place though.

[tdweis]

akrako1, my DVD burner on my computer is a DVD+R/RW only; I don't have DVD-R capability. Anyway, since I'm so new to this, pls. excuse my naive questions:

1) when you do your conversion, are you saying that you record on your 320 onto RWs?
2) You then have mpeg files; how are they imported onto your computer - do you simply copy them from the RW to the hard drive?
3) TMPEnc DVD Author does not require you to re-encode, so you lose no quality - and there's no synch problems?
4) Finally, you can then burn the finished video program onto a -R or +R?

Again, I'm just gun-shy after reading people's horror stories. If you can confirm that it's as simple as this I'll be more comfortable. Thanks again.

Victoriabears, on the advice of the people on this forum, I got a JVC 7600 in an eBay auction; hopefully it'll work well.

[victoriabears]

My experience is that a good vhs source is best left alone, I have found that the SHARP standard vcr, or toshiba/pansonic works best, other than the often mentioned digipure jvc vcr's, even then they can cause problems with looking for too much improvement, as has been said avoid the cheapo brands.

Simply recorded to re-writable dvd on a dvd recorder, (Some times needs finalising before taking to PC), capturing to pc works well,, just needs more hardware that can only be used for that and then your pc is not usable during capture.

I then use the TMPG set of products and use the source wizard to take the material from the dvd, then edit it, author and burn using nero, set to dvd book type dvd-rom if your burner allows, if not use dvd-R blanks only(I think is best).

The experts on this forum would always say capture to avi on your pc, then edit and encode to mpeg using Tmpg enc or some such.

The better quality this can bring about is debatible given the time it takes fine if you only have a dozen or so vhs. but for those of us with 1000's it isn't possible. A dvd recorder gives great results, and frankly other than the breakdown factor, the cheaper ones give fine results.

other than my lg burner not liking Kyherpedia blanks I have never had problems, only too much experimenting, I got a NEC burner which burns the kypermedia fine.

[akrako1]

1) when you do your conversion, are you saying that you record on your 320 onto RWs?
- Yes. I record onto dvd-rw's on the stand-alone recorder. I record over these after I've sucessfully authored the dvd on my computer. A 'temporary' digital master...

2) You then have mpeg files; how are they imported onto your computer - do you simply copy them from the RW to the hard drive?
- Kind of... The discs you create with the DVD Recorder are copy-protection-free, so you can freely copy the dvd-video files to your computer - but these still need more processing. You can use TMPGEnc DVD Author, or Ulead Moviefactory, or other free utilities to extract the mpeg from the original dvd files. With TMPGEnc, you can even select your new DVD as a source, and won't have to even copy the material over to the computer - it'll read it straight off the disc.

3) TMPEnc DVD Author does not require you to re-encode, so you lose no quality - and there's no synch problems?
- Correct. The program doesn't re-encode, and only deals with DVD compatible mpeg files - which the DVRs will generate in DVD-Video mode. I've also never had any sync problems with it. There is a simple interface for editing - adding chapters, cut frames, etc.

4) Finally, you can then burn the finished video program onto a -R or +R?
- You got it.

[tdweis]

Very helpful - thanks very much.

[FulciLives]

TMPGEnc DVD Author works great when working with DVD-RW discs that came from a stand alone DVD recorder.

Just like user akrako1 said ... but ... it is important to note that TMPGEnc DVD Author can only edit on what is called an "I" frame and in MPEG-2 DVD video you only get an "I" frame about once every 15 frames or so. This means that your editing will only be about 1/2 second accurate. So when cutting out commercials you will sometimes either have to leave a "snippet" of the commercial or "cut into" the TV show.

Another very usefull tool is MPEG-VCR by WOMBLE MULTIMEDIA ... this most excellent program can edit MPEG-2 video (including that imported from a DVD-RW or DVD-RAM etc.) and will allow you to edit on any exact frame you wish to edit on. If the edit points are not on "I" frames then there were be some very minor (and painless) re-encoding done at the edit point ... this is no real big deal.

So TMPGEnc DVD Author is pretty darn good but if you want 100% frame accurate editing then you need MPEG-VCR and of course a DVD authoring program (which can then be more-or-less anything you wish to use although TMPGEnc DVD Author is one of the better "basic" DVD authoring programs).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[akrako1]

I've never had any issues doing edits with the 'I' frame deal. Now, setting chapter point to a non 'I' frame won't work, but for cutting, I've never had a problem. You set the 'start frame' and 'end frame' around the commercials, and then click 'cut'. That's it. I use TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6.

[robguy]

I have a Sony HX-900 with a 160GB hard drive. I dub VHS to DVD onto RWs, or I can use the rather simplistic Sony menu and record to either a blank -Ror +R. Having a "pretty" menu is, most often, a frill, unless you spend a lot of time looking at the 30 seconds or so you actually spend time looking at a fancy menu and saying to yourself, "Isn't that a neat menu? I think I'll nuke some popcorn and watch the menu for awhile."

Having said that, I still use my PC for editing out commercials, because NO standalone (even without a hard drive) is frame-accurate. I record a TV show onto a -RW, take out commercials as best I can on the standalone, and then import the DVD into TMPGEnc Xpress 3 to get the VOBs to make the MPEG-2s. I then use a program like Womble MPEG video wizard (not Womble MPEG-VCR), which has frame-accurate editing, to remove EVERY frame of a commerical. I then import into either TMPGEnc DVD Author or NeroVision Express, add a menu (sometimes) and burn to a blank DVD.

I also use TMPGEnc DVD author when I DON'T want a menu. That's useful for a single movie.

The biggest draw of hard-disk DVD recorders is that they let you record LOTS of video before you have to dump it to a DVD. On the slowest speed, the HX-900 records over 200 hours. If you're recording Lord of the Rings, for example, you have ample space on your hard drive to record it, and are not limited to a mere 4.7GB disc -- or fumbling to find a blank disc.

The Sony (and the hard-drive Panasonic models) also has a built-in shrinker and will let you fit your movie, or episodes onto a single DVD.

Because of its capacity, a hard drive will actually allow you to go on vacation and still have enough room to record all of your normal TV episodes. Without a hard drive, you'll have to pick and choose what you want to record (that which will fit on one blank RW disc). In addition , you could record several VHS tapes, all to the hard drive, and then dump them to your blank DVDs at your leisure... something you can't do with a single-disc machine with no hard drive.


You must decide if having a hard drive is something you want, and if you are willing to pay the extra bucks to get one for the convenience. No doubt, there are those who wouldn't buy a hard-drive unit at any price, or will buy one (they claim) "when the prices come down."

But it's your wallet.

[FulciLives]

I've never had any issues doing edits with the 'I' frame deal. Now, setting chapter point to a non 'I' frame won't work, but for cutting, I've never had a problem. You set the 'start frame' and 'end frame' around the commercials, and then click 'cut'. That's it. I use TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.6.

The point that I was trying to make is that TMPGEnc DVD Author restricts edit points to "I" frames and since "I" frames only happen about once every 15 frames, give or take, this type of editing is not 100% frame accurate.

In other words you cannot edit just anywhere you like.

Many shows on TV have little to no "dead space" between the show and the commercial break. So if you use TMPGEnc DVD Author to edit you sometimes are stuck either leaving a small snippit of some commercials or you have to "cut into" the show so as to totally remove the commercials. Granted this is only a limit of about 1/2 a second but it can be annoying at times.

So in summary there is nothing wrong with the way TMPGEnc DVD Author edits. It edits very well. It just is not 100% frame accurate whereas MPEG-VCR is since with MPEG-VCR you can edit on any frame you like!

That's all I am trying to say

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[tdweis]

I bought the Pioneer DVR-220 at walmart.com, made my 1st DVD-RW recording, no problem. Finalized the -RW disc. Downloaded TMPGEnc DVD Author, tried to import my DVD-RW recording - message:

"Disk structure is corrupted & unreadable"

As I mentioned in a previous post, my DVD burner (I have a Dell Dimension 8300) only burns +R/+RW.

I have never understood the compatibility issues. Would that be the problem with getting my DVD-RW read into my machine? Shouldn't the program accept the finalized (video mode) Pioneer 220 recording?

Any help is appreciated; I reach out to akrako1 & FulciLives in particular, since they have previously answered somewhat similar questions above. Thanks.

[budz]

I have never understood the compatibility issues. Would that be the problem with getting my DVD-RW read into my machine? Shouldn't the program accept the finalized (video mode) Pioneer 220 recording?

Yes, you need to finalize the DVD-ROM (VIDEO MODE) so your pc will be able to read it back.

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=261649

[akrako1]

What mode (VR or video) did you 'initialize' your -rw to? VR is less reliably read by dvd players/recorders. I would make sure that you initialize to dvd-video mode. try importing into your computer without finalizing the recording. if it doesn't work, then put the disc back in your machine, finalize, and then try it in the computer. let us know how it works. do you happen to have a dvd-rom in your computer? you could also try importing from there...

[tdweis]

akrako1, you're right on the money! I didn't initialize in video mode, I didn't initialize at all when I put the -RW in & the machine assumed VR mode. I then erased the disk, initialized & finalized it properly & I'm in business. Thanks for your help & patience, as well as everyone's postings. This forum is the best.

FYI, I took your advice & downloaded TMPGenc trial version, & literally walked my way through it in about 20 minutes, after straightening out my initializing/finalizing. Uploaded from -RW disc made on Pioneer 220s, almost-perfect 1st-time edits of commercials & custom chapter marks, & flawless burn to +R. Now all I have to do is practice & figure out the menus. Fantastic program, easy to learn. Pioneer 220s is a beautiful machine. I will now hook up my eBay-bought JVC 7600 & the VHS-to-DVD era will begin.