MSFT details next Xbox

[BJ_M]

SAN FRANCISCO (CNN/Money) - After more a year of teases and false starts, Microsoft is finally starting to talk about its next generation game machine.

Every title for the next generation Xbox will offer high definition graphics, custom personalization and be tied into the online world, said J Allard, Microsoft corporate vice president and chief XNA architect at an ongoing game development conference.

"This system is a monster," said Allard. "In this decade, I believe we are going to double our audience."

Allard stopped short of discussing hardware specifics of the machine, which is expected to go on sale later this year. Those details, he said, would be revealed in May at E3, the industry's annual trade show.

He did, however, talk about what the gamer experience for the system (which will likely be named Xbox 360) would be like. Next generation games will allow players to have constant access to an online buddy list and their digital media, such as MP3 music files.

Microsoft also plans to greatly expand its online network in its next generation, letting players and developers form their own marketplace, selling in-game content for real-world cash via small micro-transactions. Racing game enthusiasts, for example, will be able to buy a faster car to give them an edge in the game for a slight bit more, should they wish. Similarly, players who design, say, clothing or tattoos for their own characters will be able to sell those to others.

This is something of a departure for game developers. While there has been a thriving market for in-game items for some time on eBay and other auction sites, game companies have typically frowned on the practice. Currently, massively multiplayer online games, such as "EverQuest" and "World of Warcraft" see the biggest demand, with sales of advanced in-game characters reaching several hundred dollars.

The marketplace will also allow developers to publish games one "chapter" at a time, which could cut development costs and increase the flow of new gaming content. Episodic content has been attempted before on the PC (with limited success), but never for the larger console audience.

As with Xbox Live, the marketplace will also allow players to download new game levels, maps, weapons and more. (More than 2 million Xbox owners currently subscribe to Xbox Live.)

Because the next generation Xbox will be tied into the home network, it will have access to digital entertainment stored on external hard drives. As a result, Allard said players will be able to customize the soundtrack to any game, choosing what music they feel is most appropriate.

"Our customer is going to expect to be able to connect to their content wherever they want, whenever they want," said Allard.

Connecting like-minded players has been one of the goals of Xbox Live this generation and Microsoft (Research) said it plans to expand on that philosophy. Players will be able to quickly scan information about each other, finding people who have similar skills, interests and lifestyles.

"I think of this as a gamer baseball card," said Allard.

The increased emphasis on high definition capabilities has long been expected with next generation machines. While some current Xbox games offer a high definition option, it's not mandatory – and to see the benefits, users must purchase special cables.

Allard said the company feels it's a short matter of time before high definition becomes the mainstream.

"As more and more people get exposed to the HD medium through television, the more their expectations are going to go up for other mediums," he said.

Allard also hinted at (but did not expand on) a few other long-rumored features for Microsoft's next system, including wireless controllers and wireless networking as well as possible games on demand system.

[Cornucopia]

Sounds cool, but not everyone will want to be "connected". I wonder if it'll be mandatory (ET phone home)...

Scott

p.s. What about stereo3d? That's what I'm talkin' about!

[yoda313]

Hello,

GREAT!!!!

Throw in a DVR and a dvd burner and I'd buy it in a heartbeat!!!

I'd love to be able to wirelessly stream media to my xbox WITHOUT hacking

Kevin

[Nilfennasion]

Anyone taking bets on how many moons it will be before the machine is declared unprofitable?

Here's a hint for MickeySoft: get some developers to make games that people actually want to play, or can enjoy playing. Even HALO had too many rigged levels to last long as a single-player affair. Without something as enjoyable as the Resident Evil series, your console is doomed.

[BJ_M]

question:

are the games really not all that good for xbox ?

does ps2 really have the better games overall ?

or is it that both systems dont have great games ?

[Nilfennasion]

Perhaps I am somewhat biased towards the glory days when the Commodore company dominated home computing, but I have not seen a halfway decent home games system since then.

Of the two systems, however, I would say that the PS2 has it all over the X-Box. I will point you towards a review I wrote:
http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/HardwareReviews/MicrosoftXBox/MicrosoftXBox.html,
and yes, this is my work. I said if Microsoft can market this machine adequately, and that was IF, IF, IF! Three years after that review, I can unconditionally label the X-Box a colossal failure, although nowadays, I can't say as I am surprised. At that time, I also owned a Sega Dreamcast, which ran Windows CE. Both machines have been spectacular failures.

To answer your questions directly, the PS2 has far better games. The PS2 has the Resident Evil series, which is not to be underestimated. The PS2 is also capable of being more than a games machine, although it has never been marketed as such. The only decent game for the X-Box is HALO, and HALO's novelty wore off on me after about two months.

In all honesty, it would take a massive paradigm shift at Microslop for them to even begin to have a semblance of what it takes to compete against Sony or Nintendo. I used to think Sony were monopolistic. I never thought I would hear myself say it, but in the games machine market, they are actually the good guys.

[mats.hogberg]

Let me just say one thing: "Eye Toy". (I have to admit I just recently bought a PSTwo, and, playing the really simple but brilliant Eye Toy games, all I can say is: Why isn't this kind of stuff made for our 10 times as powerful, 20 times as expensive home computers? (I remember me saying the very same thing when comparing NES to Commodore 64 too, so I guess things will never change...))
Back on topic, on average I think PS2 and XBox games are pretty alike, but as there are so many more PS2 games out there, there's bound to be better (and worse too!) games for PS2

/Mats

[soloredd]

A few things that really bother me here...

1) Episodic Games - Personally, I think this is prime for failure. They are just trying to take the LotR movie model and apply this to video games. The difference is, for $9 we got 3 hours of good entertainment. Most people know that nowdays, you will be hard-pressed to find a game that lasts more than 10 hours, yet we're paying $50 for those. So, unless the prices for games go down to about $10, forget it. What's to stop a publisher from pulling a "Kill Bill" on us? Say some studio comes up with a great game with great story, only to find the publisher chop it in thirds, selling it for $20. No thanks.

2) I enjoy a few Live games here and there, but I do not want to be forced to connect every time I play a game. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I still enjoy a good one-player game most of the time.

3) Microsoft had better include component cables for the HD content. This is one of the biggest scams I've seen in a while. They knew the XBOX was going to be capable of HD, they even released the cables before HDTVs were widely available. But, at $45-$50 a pop...that's ridiculous. Also, DVD playback needs to be included as well. $200 for the XBOX, $25 for the DVD playback, and another $50 for the component cables. That's almost $300 before even buying your first game. At least the PS2 was DVD-capable out of the box.

[mats.hogberg]

About game pricing: Back in the Atari 2600 days, games cartridges cost about the same as a big title these days. In reality, game prices has dropped by the inflation since late 70ties. But I dare say the volume for a good game today is more than 1.000-fold (maybe even 1.000.000?) the volume of the most succesful Atari 2600 game. OK, there's a bigger investment in the production, an the price has dropped, but somehow, I feel like the publishers are artificially keeping the prices up (which has as bad side effects for them, as it has in the music industry).

/Mats

[Nilfennasion]

While it is true that the Sony camp have quite a larger number of titles out there, the consistent tone of X-Box games is a good deal more mediocre. Microsoft believe that they can continue flooding their markets with more mediocre titles. While this has proven to be the case where PC software is concerned, mainly because they have cornered this market, they are finding more and more that it won't fly in markets where their competitors have been able to brace themselves, such as home entertainment or appliances.

The problem, as has been highlighted recently, is that the personal computer market has begun to stagnate, and the shortfall in the market growth that shareholders expect is starting to bite. When Bill says "we are going to destroy the competition in the home video, console game, or cable TV sectors", and it doesn't happen, the shortfall in expectations is felt by the PC software division. As a result, they need to make up a shortfall in sales. In the next five to ten years, they are going to alienate more and more consumers in the PC market, and there will be an Enron-like panic among shareholders. This episode-rollout in their games marketeering is but one symptom of the greater problem.

And yes, the "at least the PS2 was DVD-capable out of the box" thing is going to come back and bite Microsoft. As I said, the PS2 was designed to be capable of more than just games. All it would take for Sony to kill the next incarnation of the X-Box is for them to create an add-on that allows the PS2 to do HD-DVD and related content for an extra $100-200, and for them to subsidise whatever early loss they make with software sales. The X-Box has already been making losses with the machines, which they were hoping to subsidise with game and peripheral sales. The problem there is that, HALO aside, the games have been so consistently crap that the games have been adding to, rather than subsidising, the loss.

*Phew* and I was hoping this would be a short reply!

[Nilfennasion]

mats:

Good point there. My family was part of a circle that, Atari 2600 or Commodore 64, had adopted these machines early. The Atari 2600s originally had rather high prices for games. The Commodore 64s were a massive hit because one could simply copy the games and, storage media prices aside, save a hell of a lot of money. So they kept the price of media artificially high. Even now, with the price of DVD+R DLs at 9.95 to 14.95 dollars a unit, one can save money by copying to this media.

[Gurm]

I always have a tendency to root for the underdog system, largely because I appreciate different things about video games than other people, apparently.

Of the three main systems available now, the GameCube is far and away the "best" system. Yes, there are relatively few games for it. But let's review:

+ Amazingly ergonomic controllers. Also the wavebird. That alone makes this system amazing.
+ Deflicker filter built in. Why is it that neither Sony nor Microsoft seem to find this necessary? I nearly went blind playing Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, because the inventory and message screens were one gigantic flickery nightmare. Of course, this has a lot to do with the GameCube's ATI Radeon graphics chip.
+ SMOOTHNESS. Seriously here, there hasn't been a game on EITHER of the other systems that can match the inherent smoothness of Zelda or Mario on the GameCube. Mario is an extension of your controller. The entire game is just so damn... smooth. It's amazing. The quality shown in each title is amazing.

... which leads me to my other lost cause system - the Dreamcast! Also amazingly smooth. This system was lightyears ahead of the other machines available, and frankly had better games than even the PS2. But Sega of America has the world's worst marketing department, and quickly drove their own console into the ground. Come to think of it, they drove the Saturn into the ground as well, even though it was worlds better than the original PlayStation. Grr...

The XBox has the following flaws:

- Suck-ass controllers. This has been rectified somewhat with their new S-controllers or whatever the hell they're called. But the original controllers weighed like 10 lbs. each, and were sized for professional basketball players only.
- Suck-ass games. Halo was interesting. Sadly, I got the same kind of gaming experience TEN YEARS AGO on my PC. Anyone ever play Starseige: Tribes? Seriously here... oh and wait they have KOTOR. Yeah, I waited for that on the PC. I can't think of a single other COMPELLING title. MS bought Rare two years ago already - where's the great 3D platform title? Conker 2? Something else interesting? HELLOOOOOO?
- No DVD in-box. This was a public relations nightmare. I can't count the number of parents in Electronics Boutique who went "I have to pay HOW MUCH EXTRA to watch DVD's?"
- Loss Leader. Microsoft admits that they lost money, BIG TIME, on the box itself. They hoped software sales would boost this. That partly explains the sheer number of shit titles available. Sadly, all the XBox titles put together sold less than Mario Sunshine. Oops!
- Price. Even at the "taking a bath on the price" price point, MS priced this system $100 higher than either of the others. Nowadays? No contest - GameCube and PS2 are MUCH cheaper. Hell, you can buy the network/HDD add-on for the PS2 (in the FFXI box) AND a PS2 AND some memory cards AND a wireless controller AND Gran Turismo 4 - available only on PS2 - for the same price as an XBox bundle. And the PS2 plays DVD's out-of-box.

Now I'm not saying the PS2 is really amazing. There are lots of crap games for that as well, but the games that have ruled my life have been for the PS2 and GameCube - including but not limited to:

- Mario Sunshine
- Zelda: Wind Waker
- Final Fantasy X, X2, XI, and Crystal Chronicles
- Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3
- Jak & Daxter, Jak2, Jak3
- Ratchet and Clank
- Gran Turismo 3 & 4

I know I'm atypical, but if someone GAVE me an XBox, I'd probably sell it on eBay rather than use it. The only compelling games on the system are available for the PC, with the exception of Halo 2 which ought to be out any ol' time now.

[EvilWizardGlick]

Why is everyone using the PS2 as a comparison for the future XBOX 360?
The PS3 is due out about the same time. It is supposed to be backward compatible all to the PS1. And will feature a new chip.
I'm more worried about Microsofts attempt to controll everything and check everything you may have on your home network.
There are some very good games for the XBOX. Bards Tale and Fable are excellent RPG's. Fable is very complex if you go beyond the main quests.
And Bards Tale has to be the funniest game I have played in quite a while.
I think MS is shooting themselves in the foot with this.
Why was the Gamecube not even mentioned as a contender in the comparisons? Excellent just game system.

[Nilfennasion]

In today's market, where people struggling to make ends meet until the pollies wake up and realise what a load of the proverbial the trickle-down effect really is, value for money is a very big driving factor in video game sales. If you offer a machine that plays a massive library of games and DVD-Video (quality of actual playback notwithstanding) for a little over $300 or thereabouts, it is inevitable that you will get more customers than is the case with the machine that only plays video games (and a rather narrow selection at that).

Don't get me wrong, I think the Nintendo has some awesome titles. Far more so than the abortions available on the X-Box, but that alone is not going to cut it. Nintendo really shot themselves in the foot when they decided not to include DVD-Video compatibility.

As for why we are comparing PS2 to X-Box in order to see how PS3 and X-Box 2 will perform, sometimes the best insight into a company's future can come from their past. Had I known this in 1997, I would have steered well clear of the Dreamcast.

My main gripe against the Dreamcast was Windows CE. Thanks to Windows CE, a lot of games were very selective about when they loaded, making for some real compatibility hassles. Which in turn made for some real problems getting rid of problem titles.

Regarding controllers, I happen to be inclined in the opposite direction to this less-is-more crap. I have bass player hands, so I happen to like it when there is enough surface and large enough buttons on something to comfortably operate. My mother spent around twenty years working as a secretary, and she will happily tell you that the majority of cases of RSI today can be traced back to keys that are either too small or too poorly laid out to comfortably operate.

If someone gave me an X-Box, I'd probably sell it online, too. But then, I have yet to come across a games machine other than the Dreamcast I didn't want to use as a substitute for a football.

[EvilWizardGlick]

I
As for why we are comparing PS2 to X-Box in order to see how PS3 and X-Box 2 will perform, sometimes the best insight into a company's future can come from their past. Had I known this in 1997, I would have steered well clear of the Dreamcast.

I'm still happy with my Dreamcast and Atari Jaguar.

[Gurm]

Why is everyone using the PS2 as a comparison for the future XBOX 360?

We're not, we're comparing MS's mistakes with the XBOX to Sony's successes with the PS2 - and noting that MS doesn't seem to have learned their lesson, so one can pretty much expect the same thing, only maybe even worse because Sony DID learn from the few mistakes they made with the PS2.

There are some very good games for the XBOX. Bards Tale and Fable are excellent RPG's. Fable is very complex if you go beyond the main quests.
And Bards Tale has to be the funniest game I have played in quite a while.

Bard's Tale will be out next month for the PC, my gaming backlog is so large that I can wait. Fable, however, is one that I had forgotten about.

I think MS is shooting themselves in the foot with this.

Yup.

Why was the Gamecube not even mentioned as a contender in the comparisons? Excellent just game system.

Didn't read my post, didja?

[Nilfennasion]

Haven't you heard? Mickeysoft don't make mistakes. The market just hasn't shifted to their way of doing things yet.

[smearbrick1]

- Price. Even at the "taking a bath on the price" price point, MS priced this system $100 higher than either of the others. Nowadays? No contest - GameCube and PS2 are MUCH cheaper. Hell, you can buy the network/HDD add-on for the PS2 (in the FFXI box) AND a PS2 AND some memory cards AND a wireless controller AND Gran Turismo 4 - available only on PS2 - for the same price as an XBox bundle. And the PS2 plays DVD's out-of-box.

Now I'm not saying the PS2 is really amazing. There are lots of crap games for that as well, but the games that have ruled my life have been for the PS2 and GameCube - including but not limited to:

- Mario Sunshine
- Zelda: Wind Waker
- Final Fantasy X, X2, XI, and Crystal Chronicles
- Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3
- Jak & Daxter, Jak2, Jak3
- Ratchet and Clank
- Gran Turismo 3 & 4

I know I'm atypical, but if someone GAVE me an XBox, I'd probably sell it on eBay rather than use it. The only compelling games on the system are available for the PC, with the exception of Halo 2 which ought to be out any ol' time now.

Can I ask where you are buying your PS2's? Actually, right now, the PS2 and Xbox are the same price. If you can purchase a PS2 (new of course) with network capability (not really an issue anymore as it is now built in), GT4, a memory card, and a wireless controller for less than an Xbox (bundle? I don't know what that includes.) please let me know where. Because Xbox comes with built in network capability, and no need for a memory card. The unit, as hardware pieces go, is a much a better value than the single PS2. Just think of the capabilities even without mods. No need for a memory card, built in network support, built in hard disk for faster load times and MP3/ playback. I actually own both, so I don't have to go either way... I've also owned a Gamecube and quite frankly, I felt like a girl playing it. Even playing a title like the redone "Resident Evil"... All I had to do was look down from those beautiful graphics to that lame ass, kiddy purple controller to feel completely hosed. Besides, what is Nintendo's big claim to fame? Mario. So what!! I dug Mario just as much as the next pre-pubescient teen the first 19 times... I don't need to see him again. Besides, without even the prospect of DVD playback because of the proprietary format Nintendo went with (same thing with N64... Nintendo went with cartridge games instead of CD-ROM and although the games were good, they seriously lacked in areas like voice overs, cut scenes, and digital audio quality. Ever playing Episode I Racer on N64...looks and sounds like I developed the game in my garage, while the Dreamcast version is nothing short of amazing.) instead of using a human sized DVD-ROM disc. Dammit!!! I lost my train of thought!!!!

Nope... can't think of anything...

[BJ_M]

xbox is 15$ more at walmart

194$ (new model ps2 w/ memory card) vs. $209.46

[CoffeeEater]

The PS2 is also capable of being more than a games machine, although it has never been marketed as such.

PS2 is capable of being more than a games machine and the XBOX isn't? Both do DVDs. XBOX has a hard drive, PS2 does not. XBOX has custom soundtracks which you can put on the internal HD...PS2...not. XBOX can be easily converted into a Media Center...PS2...not. XBOX has standard broadband...PS2 didn't until recently.

What leg up does the PS2 have on XBOX in terms of being "more than a games machine?" PS2 didn't even have included network adapter until they released the new PS2 years after the initial release!

[Nilfennasion]

If Sony so desired, they could release add-ons for the PS2 that would allow MIDI programming, just for starters.

As for this custom soundtrack feature, you forget I owned an X-Box once. And reviewed one professionally. I would say that games which actually support the custom soundtrack feature would account for around ten percent of the catalogue. The ones that aren't annoying might account for ten percent of that. Midtown Madness 3 was so good at supporting custom soundtracks that I baked the disc under a griller.

As has also been said, Sony learns from its mistakes. MS are so arrogant they refuse to believe they even make any.

[Sabro]

It's also been rumored that the new XBox will not be backwards compatible with the original XBox.

So with that a possibility, you XBox'ers might be in for a treat, all NEW games

Never even touched an XBox so I can't say either or, but my PS1 & PS2 has kept me a loyal Sony user.

Sabro

[EvilWizardGlick]

Why was the Gamecube not even mentioned as a contender in the comparisons? Excellent just game system.

Didn't read my post, didja?

I was posting at about the same time you were.
Bad timing, yours was there when I was finished.

[Nilfennasion]

It's also been rumored that the new XBox will not be backwards compatible with the original XBox.

There's two ways of looking at that. It's either marketing suicide, or the games on the original were just crap anyway.

[EvilWizardGlick]

It's also been rumored that the new XBox will not be backwards compatible with the original XBox.

There's two ways of looking at that. It's either marketing suicide, or the games on the original were just crap anyway.

More like MS attempt to establish even more control.
Episodic games? Pay for one chapter, and keep paying unto infinity.
Compatable with your home network, and possibly checking that network for anything out of liscence.
Online gaming, pay for the game then pay a monthly fee to game.
I'm seeing quite a bit more pay, pay, pay, and quite a bit less bang for my original buck.
Plus with MS penchant for control and domination, I would have serious reservations about this product.

[satviewer2000]

Well I for one would not buy anything but the XBox, but not so much for its games but actually for its ability to emulate classic oldies like the NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, and many many other oldie game machines and ROMs! In fact, I use it purely to play some of my old favorites like Zombies Ate my Neighbors, Golden Axe, Streets of Rage, and hundreds more. I also use it to watch movies straight off my hard drive via a network connection (DivX, MPEG, AVI, it plays them all), listen to MP3's from network, play DVD movies and the list just goes on and on. There's really no end to what the XBox can do that it was not meant to do.

There's no way you can do any of these things with PS2 or the Game Cube!

[tsantsa]

Ps2 and Xbox are almost the same. They each have their 'exclusive' games and they both buy as many developers as they can.

No game dev company in their right mind nowadays should sign an exclusive deal with any of these consoles. Christ, if Xbox does double its base and Sony keeps it's current as well as GC, then why oh why sign an exclusive deal. Money is a factor yes (they aren't nicknamed M$ for nothing ) but FANBASE for the game developers is key here.

Money from the gaming industry now rivals that of hollywood. It would simply be crazy for games to stay exclusive (except for in house developers).

All of the consoles will gravitate towards M$ lead in pay for play online. Sony has already admitted that they will do this. (EGM) Nintendo will also go online (and finally fail with the throwbacks to the 80's. I can't play yet ANOTHER zelda game and just be completly bored...) with their next console, though they say it will be 'different' (this months egm). Really, how different could it be?

They all are about to fall inline with one another and they know it, that's why the competition is now more fierce than ever before. Home theater while connected online is where it's at and they all know it.

I for one, will wait at least a year before commiting to any one console. Plus I can wait until the prices fall a bit. I now have an Xbox. The reason? I actually bought the thing because I HATE the PS2 controller. I hear that M$ is going for the same kind of thing for the neXtboX. I won't be buying that. If PS2 goes with the ole faithful controller, I'll be looking elsewhere. Though nintendo has to really grab me. I'm tired of reruns.

[ViRaL1]

When has the XBOX been higher than th PS2? The XBOX was released at $299 just like the PS2. M$ has been either right ahead or right behind Sony on price drops since that point.

(Correct me if I'm wrong, it's happened before.)

[tsantsa]

You're right, the pricing has always been right on with the both of them. When the Xbox was released, had the PS2 dropped its price yet? I don't remember.

[Poppa_Meth]

The Xbox has its strong points, but almost none of them have to do with gaming. Its more of a moddable multi-function machine IMO.

PS2 is a good solid game system with expandable capabilities.

Game Cube has the best graphics capabilities IMO and is good because its a game system plain and simple with no other frills.

Xbox doesn't have anything really I want to play. Neither does GC for the most part. PS2 has the games and plenty of them and when you are talking a console game system thats the most important part. If the gamecube had a good selection of games I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But without the games I don't care how good the hardware is. Also I think nintendo is done for. They keep redoing the same old crap over and over again. Originality is a thing of the past with nintendo. You can get 15 versions of the same damn game for each nintendo system. And don't get me started on the Gameboy DS. What a load that is. I thought the SP was bad enough, introducing technology it took third party companies to point out should have been there to begin with, like the internal light.

Don't get me wrong, I use to be an avid Nintendo fan, but so long as Sony makes a good system and has the games I want I won't be switching to another system anytime soon.