DV to mpeg1/mpeg2/xvid (quality)?

[TheViking]

Hi.

I've been trying to solve this problem for ages.
I want to make small clips (30-60 seconds) from a large DV file (already on computer).
However, every method I use renders really bad quality.
What is the 'best' compression method/setting per filesize for making small and short clips?
I don't want full DV size (320x200 or whatever will do). It's just for sending clips to friends. I want good-quality, small filesized, short clips, kind of like those you download off from the 'net.

I have been using VirtualDUB and 'Save selected range as avi', setting it up with various compression methods.
The finished file is really, really bad. It's smudged, blocky (from compression), and generally bad.[/b]

Any clues as to solve this?
I found this post where the guy has almost the same problem. https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=250139

[Deekkeed]

Well I don’t know anything about Xvid so I can not comment on that, but I would say you would probably be better off using WMV or RM then Mpeg2 or Mpeg1. Although Mpeg1 would be my choice if Mpeg is your only option, do to the high bitrate required by Mpeg2 to keep the video quality decent.

Deek

[Soopafresh]

How about posting a short clip of your finished AVI so we can see what you mean? You can post a 2MB file up here, see below.

"Blocky" usually means you're encoding at too low a bit rate. I think anything below 700kbs looks pretty bad.

[TheViking]

Thank for the replies. WMV and rm are totally out of the question. I don't want to buffer the first half hour of the clip.

I have attached a short clip. In order to make it under 2MB, I had to shorten it. (I don't know if it credits the process full fairness since I had to take a mjpg-encoded avi-file, and make the clip from that, since I for some reason could not load the DV-file).

Here is the clip: test-xvid.avi

And this is what I am talking about: The quality is almost acceptable, but the filesize isn't. This clip is about 2MB and it's only 1 second playtime! I've seen clips (of an unspeakable category) of far better quality (mpg) that lasts A LOT longer and is about the same size. How??

Notice how you can cleary see the compression blocks in the water at the very start of the clip. Also, I want to get rid of the interlacing, since these are to be played on computers.

This is xvid, 1-pass, AS@5L Profile Level. And VirtualDub 'resize'-filer from DV to 320x240. All done in VirtualDub.

[jimmalenko]

Are you setting compression on your audio ?

[TheViking]

Don't think I had audio compression in that clip. I tried the same clip WITH audio compression, and it was only 300K smaller (which allows for perhaps .5 seconds more of video). I want to have a 20-30 second clip from 2-3MB.
Should I go with MPG instead?

[jimmalenko]

For a 320 X 240 video, IMO 1000kbps should be plenty if using DivX or XviD. This equates to about 4MB per 30 seconds of vision.

[lordsmurf]

Nothing is "best".
The word is "encode", not "render".

A clip only "buffers" if it streams. Download a clip, no buffer. "Buffer" means it's downloading to your temp directory.

"Smudgy" is the nature of the game, with low res clips. "Block" is from inadequate bitrate.

If it's REALLY important, mail them a DVD. Costs less than 80 cents domestic, including disc and postage.

[thecoalman]

Thank for the replies. WMV and rm are totally out of the question. I don't want to buffer the first half hour of the clip.

I ran a few tests because I will be dealing with this myself and I'll have to say using a WMV preset for 448kbps came out way on top of using 500kbps for mpeg, using Media Studio Pro.

As pointed out above when you have to buffer a clip that's just because it's downloading. From what I have seen I'd stay away from mpeg, either use WMV or Divx, I don't have any experience with Divx but from my understanding it produces great quality at high compression.

Anyhow here's a sample wmv 2:40 8.2 mb which comes in about 1.7 mb per 30 seconds. It's from a local band, if you hear any pops from the audio ignore them it's from the source. Keep in mind this came from excellent video source material.

www.nepadigital.com/temp/bar.wmv

The wmv encoder can be downloaded from MS's website.

[Raga]

I ended up going MPEG1. I needed compression in the range of 500kbps for video for a website, and decided to go with XviD initially. However, the less tech-savvy users had enormous problems with codec, and on top of that I noticed that for some most bizarre reason the outcome with MPEG-1 with the same bitrate looked better. Both XviD and DivX scattered the artifacts (which will inevitably be there with that bitrate) all over the place, including people's faces and the such, while MPEG1 conveniently placed the big "blocks" into walls and the such, ie. only on larger areas, leaving finer detail for the places needing it the most.

I'm still a bit puzzled over the issue, but the solution definitely worked for me. Perhaps it is my source files that were a bit grainy, and that caused the unpleasantness of XviD. Virtually anything below 1000kbps looked like crap with artifacts all over the place. (And I do know that DVD-rips at 1000kbps with XviD look very decent.)

[TheViking]

Now, that wmv-clip is really what I'm talking about! 1.7 meg for about 30 secs of playtime. The quality and resolution is just right for my purpose.
But I would really like to have it in mpg.

Maybe I need to rephrase my question:

How do you guys encode your short and low-resolution clips to mpg when DV is the source

Raga, I would like to know how you did your encoding. I reckon going with Pinnacle Studio or Ulead Videostudio directly is not good enough?

Also, do you guys deinterlace for computer-playback? How?

Thanks.

[Raga]

I'm playing around with AviSynth and TMPGEnc, basically, and VirtualDub too. TMPGEnc for making the MPEG, obviously.

I don't touch Ulead and the such, no I won't! (The only "transitions" I really need are fades from one scene to the next, and that goes with AviSynth.)

[Beavis]

Now, that wmv-clip is really what I'm talking about! 1.7 meg for about 30 secs of playtime. The quality and resolution is just right for my purpose.

But I would really like to have it in mpg.

If you want an MPEG, you're going to have to deal with the natural limitations of the CODEC. Windows media has been evolving and optimized much more than MPEG for just the application you have.

Maybe I need to rephrase my question:

How do you guys encode your short and low-resolution clips to mpg when DV is the source

Edit / cut the DV however you want with Virtualdub or whatever, then encode with TMPGenc. Play with the resolution and bitrate until you have something you like.

I think TMPGenc has a built-in deinterlace... If not, just use one of the filters in Virtualdub before your final encode step.

[thecoalman]

But I would really like to have it in mpg.

Don't know why. Anyhow I can't get anywhere near the quality using mpeg or mpeg2 of the wmv file. Not that small.

I don't touch Ulead and the such, no I won't!

Ulead makes some excellent high end products. Particularly DVD Workshop .

http://www.ulead.com/dws/runme.htm
http://www.ulead.com/msp/compare.htm

[TheViking]

Thanks for the replies.
I found a solution that I am very happy with. Canopus ProCoder 2 gives the very results I was looking for. About 15-30 secs of mpeg1 video for a 2MB file. And I am happy with the quality.

Remembering the horror of .asf I am very reluctant to go with a format from the big vole. Along with other, proprietary reasons.

Thanks, guys!