Use of deblocking filter in virtualdub after TMPGEnc mpeg-2

[dykesc]

OK here goes. I have searched articles but to no avail.

I am generating an SVCD compliant mpeg-2 file with TMPGEnc. After I process my captured avi in TMPGEnc I have blockiness in fast motion scenes. I do not want to use the TMPGEnc block filter so please, for this discussion, that is not an option.

I downloaded a de-blocking filter (MSU) for virtualdub and it installed nicely. The problem is my blockiness is being introduced during the mpeg-2 TMPGEnc encoding operation. It is not present in the original AVI file. (To make sure I ran the filter on the original AVI and it did not help).

Is there any way to process the TMPGEnc mpeg-2 file in virtualdub to utilize the virtualdub de-blocking filter without having to re-encode in TMPGEnc to get a final mpeg-2 file? Obviously, if I re-encode in TMPGEnc, I will re-introduce any blocking that the virtualdub filter removed.

[Soopafresh]

If I understand your question, the answer is yes.

https://www.videohelp.com/virtualdubframeserve

[jimmalenko]

As I understand it, the TMPGEnc encoding process is introducing the blocks ?

If so, use a higher bitrate/use 2-Pass VBR.

[vhelp]

First, we should ask a few qestions.. like:

* What is your source type (ie, all Film; all Interlace)

* Did you encode at 23.976 fps (Film source) or,

* did you encode to 29.970 fps (all Interlace source)

* Where is the source from (ie, VHS; Cable; Antenna; Satellite, etc)

* Were there any noise present in the video before capturing ?

and last..

* Can you upload a pic or two of your source AVI (a frame or too) ??

These kinds of questions will help us to poinpoint down
to your issues (or close enough maybe)

-vhelp 2993

[dykesc]

First, we should ask a few qestions.. like:

* What is your source type (ie, all Film; all Interlace)

* Did you encode at 23.976 fps (Film source) or,

* did you encode to 29.970 fps (all Interlace source)

* Where is the source from (ie, VHS; Cable; Antenna; Satellite, etc)

* Were there any noise present in the video before capturing ?

and last..

* Can you upload a pic or two of your source AVI (a frame or too) ??

These kinds of questions will help us to poinpoint down
to your issues (or close enough maybe)

-vhelp 2993

Original source is interlaced 720/480 DV from camcorder (Captured as AVI)

Encoded to mpeg-2 480x480 at 29.97 fps in TMPGEnc, bitrate 2250kbps

No noise in captured DV, looks great when played back in Zoom Player


Two frame captures follow: first is frame 727 from original source, second is frame 727 after TMPGEnc encode

[dykesc]

Ok I'll try to get the image syntax right this time:


AVI Snapshot frame 727 follows:




MPEG_2 Snapshot frame 727 follows:

[dykesc]

Guess thats why they call us newbies...


Here's the AVI snapshot of frame 727, notice absence of blocking...

[dykesc]

As I understand it, the TMPGEnc encoding process is introducing the blocks ?

If so, use a higher bitrate/use 2-Pass VBR.

Jim I'm using CBR. I thought I read, as far as quality is concerned, that you can't do any better than that (given a maximum allowed bitrate is being used)?

[vhelp]

Ahhh. It's DV. Now I see the picture. (not the pic)

That explains a whole lot now.

In my OP, I don't think that an SVCD would be a good idea, unless you
really don't care much for the final result (quality) you will get from
it. At 2250k bitrate is definately not enought for hand-held cams, no
matter how much light there is in the scene. Some scenes may come out
ok w/ that bitrate, but most will not, more than likey.
.
Its not that the format (SVCD) is bad or anything. Rather, yours is.
Your home-budget cam and lack of user experience in the "handling" of
the cam is not Cenima enought to pass w/ no sign of macro blocks.
.
We all really have to learn how to get out of that stubberness of not
wanting to incorporate a tripod in our everyday footaging. The key here,
is to learn how to over-come the obsticles (or what seems to be obsticles)
in our way during footaging. But, there are way even around this, if
you open you mind to a new way of thinking when taking footage. Don't
worry about *how* you look, just worry about *what* it will look like
in the end.

Anyways.

If SVCD is still your game plan, then you might want to raise the bitrate
(it could be you do not have a DVD writer/burner, and thats a good excuse)
if your DVD (or those that will be viewing the footage in their players)
will be able to handle. The standard for SVCD is 2520 bitrate, plus the
audio. A few hundred kbytes ain't goona make all that much difference.
But, you could try a higher bitrate, say 4000 and see if that looks any
better in your encodes, and then do a test burn to see if your DVD player
will handle this bitrate. But, chances are, that it won't.
.
So, what to do now ??

This is your option. You could shoot for DVD. Go for 720 x 480 and a
bitrate of 9000 CBR and see how that stacks up in quality. If you see
any macroblocks, than chances are, no matter what else you do, SVCD or
xSVCD etc, won't really matter in the end. It will all boild down to the
user handling of the cam. That's why I commented on the importance of
adding in a tripod as your daily footaging routine.
.
You could get several quick-change shoes for your tripod mounting, so that
you can quickly snap and unsnap your cam, from one tripod to another, so
that you don't have to blunder around w/ a tripod and cam. Well, that's
for your next video footaging. But for now, you have to deal with the
footage you do have on hand and need to tranfer over to DVD.

There really is no spacial formula in the DVD encoding. Just pick the
template in TMPGenc and way you go. Make sure that you don't untick
any Interlace setting. These need to be set to Interlace. There are
two places to set this, one is Video tab, and the other is under the
advanced tab. Make sure they are both set to Interlace.
.
Make sure you start with a high bitrate. And, with DV, you don't want
to use VBR, or 2pass for your final encode, because like it or not, these
encoders just can't cut it with distributing the bitrate enough in scenes
that *really* need it most. CBR (weather you need it or not) is the best
all around mode to use. And couple that with a high enough bitrate, and
you have the best that it can be, once encoded. You can't blaim it on
anything else, except for your handling of the cam, and poor experience
shooting video

Also, don't shoot in fake mode. I'm speaking of the 16:9 modes that cams
offer. They all suffer from the bug and produce a very nasty output due
to the way it resized the video internally. It's permanent, and no fustzing
around will ever change it. So, remember to shoot in 4:3 mode. Always.

Last, but not least, and since this is about video footaging (ok, eliminating
macro blocks - same thing, really) I felt it necessary to mention the
importance of of tripod, becuase the user was (is) having trouble with
macro blocks, and the reason is very simple.. cut it out from the source.
..and get a tripod

-vhelp

[dykesc]

If I understand your question, the answer is yes.

https://www.videohelp.com/virtualdubframeserve

Yes, I could frame serve it over to TMPGEnc, but wouldn't TMPGEnc still introduce macroblocking when it encoded the file to MPEG-2?

[dykesc]

Ahhh. It's DV.

In my OP, I don't think that an SVCD would be a good idea, unless you
really don't care much for the final result (quality) you will get from
it.

-vhelp

Well vhelp I thank you for taking the time to type that reply.

Yes I've about decided, after two weeks of fooling with SVCD and its limitations, its time to get a DVD writer. As far as a tripod goes, I don't think even that would have helped. Regardless of how steady I was, that dog was shaking water off his back at a high bitrate...LOL

Thanks again.