I'm hoping Northcat (Being a teacher) reads this, but I am open to any suggestions really. I've got a private student, he's 13, a good kid. Found out he was being picked on pretty bad at school. Hasn't told anyone. He has friends, but his crowd and the bullies are pretty different (Nerds vs jocks if you will) Anyway, he asked me for advice on how to deal with it. He doesn't want to go to the teacher because that would just stir more shit up and going to his parents would be useless he says "They would say it's school, and a place to study not to be bothered by other peoples stupidity"
I would like to tell him to kick the shit out of them, even if it means he loses. At least he could get in a few blows, let them know that he means business (You wanna fight...bring it on baby) He's pretty tall for his age, being 180cm at 13 years old. He could kick them in the head....
BUT...as I am also his teacher (A private teacher) I wasn't sure what to tell him. I kinda winged (sp?) it, and it may have not been the best of advice (Because of cultural differences and because I am not his public school teacher, just an at-home private teacher)
Anybody got any good ideas. I was bullied once in school. The guy kept pushing me...that was his only pleasure. One day, I broke 4 of his fingers (Snapped them all back) "I told you not to push me." My parents were so proud![]()
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 30 of 92
-
Smile
Smile
-
I can see this not working in USA:
1. Kid gets bullied.
2. Kid whines to teacher.
3. Teacher says fight back.
4. Kid fights back.
5. Kid gets ass kicked.
6. Parents find out teacher "instigated" a fight.
7. Parents sue teacher.
Only in America.
You'll have to decide if Japan is the same.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
I wouldn't tell him to fight...but in America, would it be wrong to tell the kid to stand up for himself. That wouldn't necessarily mean fighting, but maybe making sure the student knows there are other ways of standing up for yourself.
SmileSmile
-
Tell him to maintain eye contact with the bullies when he encounters them. Make the other guy look away first. Even when he's walking into a class. Even if he's getting verbally assaulted for doing it.
-
Originally Posted by SoopafreshSmile
Smile
-
The eye contact is all about projecting confidence.... a bully picks on someone who lets themselves get picked on because they exert little confidence about themselves...
If he were to show that he is indeed a confident young man, not scared of the bully, then slowly the bully begins to realize that he's not bothering the target anymore and loses enjoyment in doing it. Eventually he'll either move on to someone else (unfortunately for the someone else) or he'll just give up and leave him alone.
By looking at him straight in the eye, you project that confidence that fight or no fight, you are not intimidated by that bully. Bullying is more of a mind game at this point - if it became physical, that's when school officials would more than likely be willing to step in. Even if he did report it to a teacher right now, before any fight, the teacher could probably do nothing about it without some pretty damning evidence of a serious threat of violence.
("You do your thing, I'll do mine" is a song by Montgomery Gentry that comes to mind when I read this...) -
Eye contact is very good advice - self-esteem is one of the key things to help this kid out with.
That you're his private teacher is a little harder to resolve.
Way back when I was in school, my class was required to do these little daily self-esteem exercises. Each day, everyone in the class had to say what they liked or disliked about the one student that had their turn for that day.
What each saw were that person's strengths and weaknesses...and what areas each thought that person needed to work on.
Some of 'em could be brutal when it came to saying what they didn't like about you
Anyway, it was kinda fun and neat at the same time...and the good things they'd say about you seemed to stick better than the bad things.
Once you find your strengths, your weaknesses don't seem all that bad...and you can face so many challenges that you're faced with using those strengths.
It must've worked on me, 'cause I've never really been bullied as a kid - except by a handful of adults here and there
Anyhow, here's something that came up on a quick search -
http://www.bullies2buddies.com/manual/kids/lesson01.html
This is something that'll take some time.
I'd try to get other teachers to be aware of the situation and even look into the bully's background.
Bullies are usually insecure with themselves...may even be a victim of a bully themselves (at home or elsewhere)...or have a chemical disorder.
Hitting the person back isn't gonna resolve the problem. -
Bullies only pick on those who pose no physical threat to themselves. They're cowards by nature. Pose a threat, and they'll leave you alone.
Unfortunately the best way for this kid to get the bully off his back is to hurt him. It's a time-honored cure for bullies here - stand up to them and even if you lose, if you get in a few good licks, the bully won't bother with you again.
Going to parents or school officials might get the bully in temporary trouble, but it won't help the bullying problem. Ignoring the bully won't work either. Neither will trying to reason with him. Bullies don't follow logic.
Tell the kid to go for the nose ....a bloody nose has a good psychological effect. He may get a black eye or a bloody nose himself, but the feeling of joy over solving the problem by standing up like a man and defending himself will make the bruises seem trivial. Believe me, it's the best way
BTW, I have two sons myself and my younger son had the same problem. -
Soopafresh had a good idea with the eye contact thing
I think it would throw the average bully a monkey wrench and wouldnt know how to deal with it. I think its the best suggestion but if that doesnt work............
I was originally going to suggest a sharp blown to the nose with a palm thrusting upward followed with a throat smash with 2 fingers and then grab the collars of the other guy with both hands and a knee to the nuts
If you can pull all 3 off just about any kid will go down
(The palm strike is the best it gives great pain and automatically causes tears great embarrasment factor for bullies even if he looses the fight at least he can say that he made him cry)
Imediately after doing this he should yell "Whoose the Biyoch now!!" -
Originally Posted by ps2daddy
Yeah, that's not going to aggravate the bully -at all-!! -
You only yell that out after he goes down if you can pull of all 3 move there is about an 87% chance he is on the ground after that
-
I got picked on by a bully once in the 7th grade. I told him to f#@koff and he then went around telling everyone he was going to kick my ass after school.
So, after school about 30 kids gathered around to watch me get my ass kicked.
When he attacked me he came in swinging with his head low, looking at the ground, not me. Big mistake
I broke his nose with an upper cut and then proceeded to kick his ass.... He never bothered me again and actually tried to befriend me...."Terminated!" :firing: -
Originally Posted by ps2daddyWant my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
FAQs: Best Blank Discs • Best TBCs • Best VCRs for capture • Restore VHS -
Tell his parents that he's being picked on, but tell him you're going to tell his parents first.
I was both growing up. Neighbor's big brother and his friends picked on me, and I took it out on the kids at school. By time I got to highschool, I out grew both. It's part of life IMO. -
That's a tough one Beave...
Now this is where the hypocrit in me comes out...
As the teacher all you can really say is to ignore the problem, avoid the situation, etc, etc.
I tend to go the other way, and I'm just more observant around school and when I see someone being bullied, I go talk to the bully and say something like "hey man, I've noticed that you tend to pick on "so and so". What do you have against him?" "He's alright man, a little strange sometimes but why don't you cut him some slack every once in a while?" That seems to work most of the time for me. But then again, I am in the school, you are dealing with a private student.
I was in the same situation the summer between my freshman year and sophomore year. I had gotten in a fight in middle school and my parents went ******* nuts and penalties were severe. From then on it was understood that I was not allowed to fight. My Dad saw this kid push me outside of a skating rink and I just walked away, the kid followed, kept pushing me until I got to the car. On the way home he told me that I could and should stand up for myself and I didn't have to worry about ramifications at home for it. The next weekend my Dad was called to come and get me 20 minutes after he dropped us off. The kid met me at the door and it was on. My Dad was also proud, until he got the orthodontist bill for that kid. I broke out 8 of his teeth (all of them on the left side of his mouth, fractured his jaw, chipped a few other teeth and his mouth and face required 68 stitches. Who knew getting beat in the face with a roller skate could do so much damage? What's funny is that kid is now grown up, his son is in my daughters class, I see him all the time...he's never spoken to me and will not look at me. He still wears the scars on his face...**** him if he can't take a joke.
Now I know most of you won't believe this but up until that conversation on the way home with my Dad, I was a quiet, shy, introvert, who rarely spoke and very mild mannered. After the conversation...well times changed. I got kicked out of 2 county fairs that summer (I should mention, that I wasn't really going to throw the kid out of the grandstands), got kicked out of the local Mall and Kmart, got put in a cruiser at a park in Dayton, and suspended from school 3 times that next school year out of 7 fights I got in at school that year. I spent the first 14 years being walked on and pushed around...I will not allow that to happen ever again...but now that I'm older, I work smarter, not harder and while I may want to bust someone in the mouth...I enjoy making their life completely miserable in complete anonymity instead.
So while I may say "walk away, ignore it", I know in my own mind how I would have handled it at 16 years old. I have to admit, I do not handle those situations in school very well. By my philosophy it's simple...is the crime worth the punishment? If it is...then go for it, if it's not...then don't.
At some point in time that kid is going to need to stand up for himself, otherwise he'll be pushed around his whole life. Only he can handle it. Many times all it takes is to show that you'll stand up to them. He can stand up for himself without creating an ultimatum, where he'll be met after school.
Sorry Beave, I'm probably not the best one to ask about this situation. Even at school I'm more of a hockey referee than anything else, if they want to fight, let em fight, I'm a sports fan, I'll break it up before it goes to far....maybe...depends on if the kid I like is winning or losing
<oh shut up you tree huggers, I'm kidding> -
I have to agree with northcat. Your student needs to "stand up" to the bully, but it is really more important at a psychological level. Resorting to the situation with violence without it being measured and well considered by your student may well do more harm than good.
Regards.Michael Tam
w: Morsels of Evidence -
I was picked on when I was a kid. Relentlessly. Grew up in a tough neighbourhood where every family was disfunctional. The day I got them off my back was the day I was the most mad I'd ever been in my life. And every time someone tried to pick on me after that would just make me madder.
I don't think you have to actually resort to hitting someone, you just have to be wanting to rip their heads off and let them see that.
Ask this child to think about what it would feel like if the bully kicked the living crap out of him. Then ask him to imagine the bully making fun of him in front of the whole school. What if the bully brought 6 friends along to "help". How about if the bully was picking on someone half his age. What happens in a couple of years when they're old enough to start carrying weapons. What if this bully stuck a knife in the kid's eye one day and he has to live the rest of his life with one eye. What if this bully never ever ever stopped bothering him and followed him the rest of his life "just for the fun of it". Say whatever situation you think would get him mad at the bully.
There is a voice inside all of us that says "that's not fair" and will allow us to fight to the death if needed to stand up for what we believe in. Once that voice takes over you don't put up with any shit whatsoever, and you don't fear anything. You will yell and scream and defend yourself, and you know you're doing the right thing. Bullies - cowards - don't mess with someone who's mad.
That's my two cents on the subject. -
Many schools have anti-bullying policies these days. It may sound good to tell a kid to "stand up" to these losers, but if they're larger, or stronger, or in a group, it's probably not going to do any good and may only result in the kid being more tormented. Plus he'll feel more helpless and this could lead to other, more serious problems.
I was a smaller kid and had to quit the Boy Scouts and YMCA because of the bullying that was either tolerated or ignored by the adults that were supposed to be supervising. In the case of the Scouts, the adults coudln't have been less concerned (except when the victim was one of their sons), and at the YMCA there were no adults present, only older kids, so no one was around to put a halt to it. In fact, they thought it was funny and thus encouraged it.
There's absolutely no reason this sort of thing should be allowed, especially when we've seen how, in extreme cases, it can lead to tragic results. Many times a child may believe his parents aren't interested, but may be surprised to hear they're truly concerned. However, if they are unwilling to intervene, I think it's important to urge the boy to bring it up with his school's administration.
It's obviously bothering him, or he wouldn't have mentioned it to begin with. You could offer to go in with him if he feels he can't ask his parents. If you don't take some sort of action, he may ultimately feel you're not really interested, or are intimidated yourself. He's at an age when kids aren't really known for being rational, so it's hard to say how he may take it, but I'd interpret his talking to you about it as a cry for help..... -
Beav
My apologies for meddeling in your affairs in advance.
I have been lucky in that I have always been on the bigger side and had very few people **** with me. Unfortunatly the ones that do mess with me tend to be the baddest of the baddest, so I do know of the experience first hand and understand some of his and your concern.
First as a professional in the employment of the childs parents I feel that you are obligated to inform them of the situatuon. They may have expeirence or opinions as to how best to deal with the issue or may in fact grant you permission to deal with it. I know that you don't want to break a trust with your student but the emotional and physical development of the child is above all others, the parents responcebilty.
To get over this problem the solution must come from within the individual. Either he works up the courage to do something or he doesn't. You can not solve this for him The best you can do is offer him several possible options that he can consider and try for himself. You should try your best to teach him about bulleing in society and history and the phychology involved. This is a "teachable mommemt" and there is a lot that can be learned by all involved, the victom, the purpertraitor, the parents and the tutor. Don't let your emotions get in the way of provideing options and information and don't give any recomendations about starting violence. (not that I would follow any of this advice myself, but you are a better person than me and have to look and act professional)
I could go on, but to save everyone from another ZAPPER novel I will check out a few other post. (the crowd cheers)IS IT SUPPOSED TO SMOKE LIKE THAT? -
JohnnyCnote is right, this is not the 1980's when some of us grew up, where a fight was a fight, it was a fair fight, one on one, fight happened, winner won and the loser STFU.
Saddly, the current trend in high schools today is that if you beat my ass one on one today, tomorrow I will find you with 3-4 friends with me and all 5 of us will whip your ass. Which in turn leads to you getting your friends together, etc, etc. It's sad and pathetic, but it's the way things are now.
as an interesting side note, I had a kid in class, who was a jock but he was squared up on by this other kid. The jock dropped him like a rag. The other kid obviously embarassed, got some of his boys together...3 of them, and all 4 of them jumped the jock...and all 4 of them got their asses beat simultaneously. I don't know what they were expecting, the Jock is a very good athlete, he's 6'2" 235 lbs, **** strong diesel MFer, I don't know what these other kids were thinking picking on him, but sometimes they have to learn the hard way, I guess
and Shadowmistress
Originally Posted by Shadowmistress
Originally Posted by ShadowmistressOriginally Posted by ShadowmistressOriginally Posted by ShadowmistressDamn...you either need the world's biggest hug or the phone number to anger management.
These "voices" you hear....they aren't coming from your dog are they
Damn SM....increase the peace -
Originally Posted by northcat_8
I didn't mention the time on the school bus a bunch of guys in the back of the bus were teasing a guy sitting in front, who had an odd name that was funny to say...and they were taunting him and chanting his name while stomping the floor.
It was sort of bullying, but they were doing it in a playful way (I'd be lying if I said I wasn't laughing too)
I know better now...but didn't really know the guy myself.
He was on our bus but went to another school.
Anyway, he just lost it one day...grabbed the axe (used for emergancy situations) in the front part of the bus and started swinging it around like a madman at everyone (that was a site to see!)
The innocent bystanders almost lost their heads that morning
That was the last time the guy was on our bus - never saw him again.
The school principal came onto the bus the next morning and started yelling at everybody and gave a long lecture and threatened to suspend us all from riding the bus if we didn't behave
Anyhow, there are some people you just can't mess with - whether it's a bully or victim of one.
This is the reason you don't hit or fight with people you don't know - or know where they're coming from.
You never know if the bully is gonna show up with a gun the next day at school.
This is something that needs to be looked into first before giving any advice.
It can be just a phase or it can lead to a bigger problem.
Address the other teachers about it...and the parents of both kids. -
Originally Posted by northcat_8
The only voice I hear/follow is my own.
I am all about peace. The hugs I give/receive will attest to that.
I am my own bodyguard. My philosophy is that if someone fucks with me without a justified cause and is going to take me out, I'm taking them with me. -
Originally Posted by Shadowmistress
I'm just giving you a hard time, I know what you are saying. 9 times out of 10 if your bark is loud enough, people won't test your bite.
I'll test it. I'm not skeered of you SM bring your head ripping, eye stabbing, voice hearing ass on....ought to be a pretty good tussle:P
I don't know if your anger is managed or not...but mine is....I have the Court Ordered Completion Certificate to prove it.
I'm much better now, I don't do things like that anymore. I will still fight if need be and have had several close calls and have been impressed by my restraint. I know the 25 yr old Northcat would have just reacted and dealt with whatever ramifications came as a result. I work smarter now, why break someone's teeth out, when you are going to have to pay for them. I would rather cause problems in their life, like making his co-workers think he's gay. Having his electricity shut off. Sitting outside the bar waiting on him to leave, then call the police about a drunk driver, giving car description, tag # and street location, etc, etc...I have a list and some fucked up friends
While I am usually Captain Sunshine if you are on my good side, if one ends up on my darkside, there is no way back and you will soon have a new concept of what an ******* actually is. Oh yea, and my favorite part, once I know someone I dislike also hates me...I am the nicest SOB you've ever seen to that person in public. I'll go out of my way to talk to them, I'll sit with them at ball games, if they get up and move, I move with them, I'll send christmas cards and anything else I can do that is "nice" that I know will irritate them and they just hate it, you can just see their anger and hatred in their eyesI love it
(one of them will probably shoot me one day
oh well, what are you going to do eh?
)
-
I was getting ready to sign off (At 2:20am CST), saw this and just had to comment....
You are in a tough catch 22 situation. I am not a lawyer, teacher, but my understanding is that you have now been informed of this situation and you have to do something with that (actually I just remembered that you are a private teacher, so this may be a different situation).
I was reading with great interest some of the responses and luahged at a few "rose colored" responses and also where it was a little obvious that some of us probably remembered things a little differently. Y'all have an "adult" perspective on the whole bullying thing. Its a lot different when you are/were on the other side of it.
I remember my nemesis (actually 2) in grade school, such that I remember his name. These fuckers ( i swear) failed 6th grade twice to wait for me to catch up (I never met them before 6th grade though). Anyway, these two guys were best friends and were 2 years older (and obviously bigger) than I was. They made my life a living hell for almost 5 years. I and a number of other kids lived in continual fear of these 2 kids. Fortunately, my sophmore year of high school, I finally decided to stand up for myself. I was NEVER bothered by them again and they actually stopped picing on the other kids as well.
Here is what I learned, if you give the bully the knowledge that he can get away with whatever, (s)he will continue and will increase the physical and emotional abuse. Of course there is a chance that the bully will go on and pick on someone else or stop. This is usually what happens after a pig flies out of my ass.
What I am trying to say here is that at least for me and my situation, it is best that the kid realizes that life is not fair and while it is not good to go around with a chip on their shoulder, if they let people get away with stuff, they will become victims. Better to take their lumps if need be now than to let the bullying increase (other would be bullies can sense fear as well). Personally I wouldnt recommend talking to the parents of the bully (my friend tried that and I believe the fruit of the loom underwear imprint is still on his ass). The silver spoons episode doesnt work.
This is actually something that my wife and I are "discussing" with regard to my 4 year old son. I am planning on teaching him martial arts soon so that he, like I could learn the appropriate lessons from martial arts. My wife says that she doesnt want him to be fighting all the time and doesnt want him to use what he learns. I told her about my runin's with bullies and how after you wipe one of their asses up front, it makes the others take notice. I try to explain that unless he DEFENDS himself, he is going to get picked up and taken advantage of. I WILL NOT HAVE THAT. He wont go through what I went through.
Maybe this should be a poll. I vote for tell him to go in and try to defend himself. -
Originally Posted by northcat_8
Originally Posted by macleod
Kids carry weapons to high school nowadays. What do you think it will be like when he grows up? I see all this bravado from all these guys around here but they don't know what it's like to REALLY be outmatched.
Ask yourself, what would you do if you're faced with staring down the barrel of a gun? You can't use intimidation to save yourself. The only way a stranger wouldn't shoot you is if you find a way to gain their respect.
Originally Posted by northcat_8 -
I worded my statement to see what response I would get. People do not learn martial arts for the purposes of kicking someone's ass and defending themselves---at least people aside from the Karate Kid (I wince whenever I hear this movie's name). Martial arts teaches you a HECK of a lot more than how to "beat" someone up. I remember my first "class". The "instructor" said that he is going to teach us how to get out of a situation where the attacker is armed and wants our wallet. I walked up to him with a "gun" and said give me his wallet. He gave it to me!!!!! He then said that Ralph Macheo is not why we are here. Martial arts teaches discipline, confidence, and how to act before you think (amongst a number of other things). It is used for SELF DEFENSE when there are no other options. As a side effect (at least for me and most other folks that "learn" martial arts), there is a level of confidence that tells people (not saying this in a mean/cocky way) to think twice if they want to take advantage of someone.
I plan on teaching my son martial arts so that he too can have this "confidence", not cockiness. To get into more of the details of what I did with my "learnins' " is that when I was getting picked on on the soccer field, I busted the kid in the nose and "squared up" with him . It was a last resort (IMO). Had I never taken martial arts, I would have never had the CONFIDENCE to stand up to this bully that way. Thinking back, I coulda been the kid with the .45 because like I said, this kid made my life a living hell. At that age, unless the mind is tempered, a "hurt" kid can rationalize a lot of stuff.
I read your comment on the barrell of a gun. If you ask anyone who has taken martial arts and has an ounce of sense, that they would be aware of their surroundings enough not to get put into that situation.
What I hear some people saying is that to let the bully get away with it because if you stand up to them, they will raise the stakes.
Better to get hit and picked on everyday than to get shot.
Read the above comment a few times. If you honestly believe that, my condolences. Believing that means that you have never been bullied and/or your living in a dream world. yea sure in 10 years it will be over and he will be doing something else. Hmmmm. been 16'ish years since the "incident" and I remember it like it was yesterday. That decision to defebnd myself is a life lesson that I have used in other forms elsewhere in my life....
food for thought from my whacked out mind......... -
Ask yourself, what would you do if you're faced with staring down the barrel of a gun? You can't use intimidation to save yourself. The only way a stranger wouldn't shoot you is if you find a way to gain their respect.
When I was staring down the barrell, I obeyed EVERY command that the person gave me. That is the thing that most people dont get about people that "learn" martial arts. Man, way too much frickin' hollywood stuff going on. Taking JUST one aspect of martial arts, you learn when to fight or flee (and its usually a combination).
A quick example. Guy pulls gun, wants wallet. throw wallet one way run the other. You learn to think and react this way so that if/when it does happen you dont do something stupid. Someone pulls up to you and tells you to get in their car. YOU DO NOT GO. Fighting is not the first thing that happens, it is the last. An "encounter" should last 15 seconds. Enough time for you to do "something" and get the hell out of there.
There is just soo much more to martial arts than doing X punch or kick. Most "real" martial artists will say that they have never been in a REAL fight, because they have learned how to stay out of them. THAT DOESNT MEAN THAT THEY WALK AWAY. -
Well...thanks for all the advice. It's a tought one. I'll probably end up telling him to not give into their bullying and to stand up for himself. Legally (As a private teacher/tutor) I'm not obligated to do anything as far as informing someone. However, I am getting to know his parents a bit better, so hopefully in time I can get him to talk more about it with them. They see him everyday, I just see him once a week.
I did however think about stopping by his school, and picking him up. Having a big white guy twice the size of the rest of them walk you home like a bodyguard might be an idea. Being a private teacher makes things more difficult, there are no real rules and either way you go you could get in trouble.SmileSmile
-
Originally Posted by macleod
You can increase your confidence by learning martial arts, but never as much as when you get pissed off.
Originally Posted by macleodOriginally Posted by macleod
Originally Posted by macleod
If it were me, knowing I'd be in the hospital the next day anyway, I'm making sure that I take the first shot. I'm going ballistic on their asses and taking no prisoners. At that point, I have nothing to lose.
You'd be surprised at how quickly you gain respect when you show no fear.
Remember that movie Copycat with Sigourney Weaver? How the serial killer had her all tied up and was fixing to kill her but he wanted to see her be scared first? And she starts insulting him!
Yeah I know that's Hollywood, but it illustrates where I'm coming from.