I did something wrong, I know it! AVI to KSVCD

[Codecoder]

Source is 640 x 480 anime drawing style with VERY clean picture even if you zoom in, and target is to fit 42-63 min in one KSVCD or KVCD. Encoder I'm using is DIKO + FreeEnc.

I'm having some trouble choosing the best resolution and at the same time have 42 min or 63 min in one CD, if possible. 42 min seems to fit without any trouble using 352 x 480, but 63 min is being painful. 352 x 480 is producing a weird result. When previewed on PC at 352 x 480 without any reescaling the image sharpness and details are great (even thought the frame size is squeezed horizontaly), but when you burn it to test on my standalone DVD Player or preview it at fullscreen on PC, the DVD off course reescales the frame size to display on TV, something wrong happens. The very clean image quality is gone and is replaced by ugly JPGE noise (that ugly noise that happens to any JPGE file when compressed too much). I'm using some tweaked filters to help on that, undot + convolution3D + msharp + blockbuster + DCTfilter + TemporalSoften + Dup. Not only that but some small flickering in some small areas, especially if you zoom in. If you watch being 3m far away from TV the quality is good, but if you get closer you start to see macroblocks, noise, ghosts and JPGE flaws.

PS: I think my DVD Player is smoothing out about half or so of the noise because previewing at fullscreen on PC is a lot worse.

Example taken from Msmooth doc site. This is not present on source is happening after you compress to MPGE-2.

At 352 x 240 I lose some ammount of sharpness but there are less JPGE artifacts for me. But going that low makes the image looks interlaced or whatever, with flickering scanlines or something. How do I describe it? Hmmm... something like horizontal black interlaced lines that are VERY visible.

544 x 480 or 480 x 480 seems to minimize those ugly artifacts but at the cost of requering more MBs.

converttoyv12()
BlindPP(cpu=4)
Blockbuster(method="noise",detail_min=1,detail_max=10,variance=0.1,seed=1)
Convolution3D(1, 12, 22, 8, 8, 2.8, 0)
DivXResize(WIDTH, HEIGHT, 0, "LanczosResize",WIDESCREEN)
Undot()
TemporalSoften(2,7,7,3,2)
DCTFilter(1,1,1,1,1,1,0.5,0)
Dup(copy=true,blend=true)
msharpen()
#Blockbuster(method="noise",detail_min=1,detail_max=10,variance=0.3,seed=5623)
DivXBorders(HEIGHT,OVERSCAN)
AddBorders(8,16,8,16)
AddAudio()

[FulciLives]

I think you need to go ---> http://www.kvcd.net/

I dare say that most of us here at videohelp.com do not have a very high opinion of the kwag's methods in regard to his KVCD project.

You will find more help on kwag's website than you will here.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

It's situations like this where I just don't have much sympathy. You want quality and you want to compress the hell out of a file to fit on one measley CD-R. Well, that's not going to happen without sacrifice in quality.

A regular SVCD, no fancy "k" junk, 480x480 2.0VBR or so interlaced MPEG-2, will often yield 45-50 minutes of video. Using a good encoder like PROCODER will also help to minimize artifacts.

Most players do not support anything other than DVD or VCD, so all these other variants may not work for you. You may need a new player. Or equally as expensive (or cheaper!), buy a DVD burner and use the CD burner as a doorstop.

Good luck.

[Shadowmistress]

I know exactly why this is happening but it would be impossible to explain without writing a thesis on the subject. In short, biterate is given to 2 things when encoding. 1. light/color 2. motion. The kvcd template steals some bitstream from motion and gives it to light. What's happening in your case is that there's not enough bitrate for motion. Yes I know it's hard to believe but trust me on this.

You can go about fitting it on one cd thru various ways.
1. Keep the high resolution and change your GOP structure. I believe it's I:2, P:5, B:2. Change it to I:2, P:20, B:2. That might be enough for the extra 15-20 minutes. If not throw more P pictures in there till it fits. A word of warning tho, test it on the dvd player with a small clip first to see if your player can handle it. Edit: I later remembered the kvcd template has over 5000 P pictures. You can still increase that to 9999 for more size.

2. You can clip lum. This will make the black parts a bit lighter and the light parts a bit darker. The less range between the two, the less bites needed to encode. Since it's an animation it may not be so noticeable. Play around and see if it's to your preferance. Do NOT use YCbCr method but use CCIR601. (Don't bother lowering color, it wont save that much on size)

3. Take off all the filters. They're not gonna do NOTHING if your source is good. Most especially take off any motion search options. That's what's spoiling your picture right now. Do not use temporal soften, do not use sharpen.

4. Try encoding your sound at a lower bitrate. You might get some space there.

5. Oh yeah, try it without the Kvcd template and use the normal default template. Just to see what happens. Encode 2 2 minute clips, one with each template and compare filesizes.

I've never used DIKO or FreeEnc so I can't help you on settings. But I'm familiar with Kvcd thru Tmpgenc.

Hope this helps. PM me if it doesn't and we'll work something out.

[Codecoder]

I'll switch back to standard SVCD. I tried disabling all filters in the default AVS script that comes with DIKO and the result is a shame, I end up with much more noise. The source is very good and shouldn't output that noisy mpge-2 stream.

The kvcd template steals some bitstream from motion and gives it to light. What's happening in your case is that there's not enough bitrate for motion.

That is explaining all. In still scenes or low motion scenes the quality is very good with some little artifacts here and there at the edges, but at busy scenes the quality is very low.

Do NOT use YCbCr method but use CCIR601

What? Are you talking about "converttoYV12"?

Most especially take off any motion search options

OK. NEver knew it. I always used max motion search on Mainconcept.

Try encoding your sound at a lower bitrate. You might get some space there

NEver mind, 42 min + menu is what I really want to fit, 63 min would cut quality by half anyways.

KSVCD is nothing more than a hacked SVCD with some tweaks to help you fit some more without big sacrifices. In my case I'm getting exactly the opposite, less quality and less minutes.

[Shadowmistress]

KSVCD is nothing more than a hacked SVCD with some tweaks to help you fit some more without big sacrifices. In my case I'm getting exactly the opposite, less quality and less minutes.

LOL. Now you know what we're talking about. In all fairness though, kvcd would work good on low motion or low light flicks.

Motion Search is good to use, but it will pad the file with some extra bits. Use if you can, don't if it won't fit.

Output YUV data in the 8-235 light range, do not make it 0-255.

One question, why make an SVCD rather than a VCD for animation? You could still get a great looking movie at much less biterate.

[animatron]

LOL. Now you know what we're talking about. In all fairness though, kvcd would work good on low motion or low light flicks.

LOL
You guys need to learn how to do real encodes
You should really go to kvcd.net and learn to do things like this: http://www.kvcd.net/downloads/704x480-showoff.mpg

Is that bad quality?

"Quote:
The kvcd template steals some bitstream from motion and gives it to light"

LOL

STOP doing crappy DIVX to whatever
It just doesn't work, no matter how "cristal clear" you think your DIVX is.

@lordsmurf,
Your comments about "K" are really amusing
You need a "reality check" :P

Some people here seem to live in "lala land"

[lordsmurf]

The flaws, limitations and errors of kwag's "format" are well documented on this site, spanning almost two years worth. No need to rehash what a quick search will show.

I honestly don't care what people use for their videos, as long as I don't have to watch it. Especially this "format" of video.

[animatron]

The flaws, limitations and errors of kwag's "format" are well documented on this site, spanning almost two years worth.

Two years is a very long time. And after reading all threads here, I agree that the original stuff posted was all template related. I think you should not close your eyes and think that kvcd is what was posted here over 2 years ago.
Just look at all the tools that have been developed over at kvcds site. Scripts (quite advanced, in my opinion), file prediction tools, bitrate calculators. I'm very fond of calcumatic, because I don't think there's any other bitrate calculator that is even close to what it provides.
Do you remember the "China Wall"
Open your eyes, as you might be living in a world of your own, and things did happen outside the China Wall

[lordsmurf]

The matrices are worthless for interlaced footage, or imperfect slightly noisy footage, as are most of the templates. If you're not ripping progressive pro-made DVDs (or deinterlacing! yuck!) and re-encoding to CD, kwags' stuff is useless. It has become obsolete. His attempt to make "kDVD" was absurd, as it flew outside specs (or whacked out the matrix too much). Some of those also require progression. This has been covered in the past 6 months several times.

I'm not new to this, I was making DVDs back when kVCD was in its infancy. Like I said, use what you want. Have fun. As long I don't have to watch it, it's all good.

If you seek high compression, my advice will be to stick to good encoder (not TMPGENC), and learn how to use good COMPLIANT settings, and to set output based upon input (leave interlace alone, etc).

[animatron]

The matrices are worthles for interlaced footage, as are most of the templates.

Really?
Now I see how much you (un)know about matrixes
A matrix has nothing to do with interlaced or non-interlaced video.

If you're not ripping progressive DVDs and re-encoding to CD, kwags' stuff is worthless now.

WOW I do all my MiniDVDs to KDVDs interlaced, without a hitch!
You just have to learn how to separate the fields prior to filtering/ pre-processing interlaced sources, and other detailed stuff. That's all!
But I guess that's just a little above your head, isn't it?

It has become obsolete.

Really? Where did you read about that? Here? LOL

His attempt to make "kDVD" was absurd, as it flew outside specs (or whacked out the matrix too much). This has been covered in the past 6 months several times.

Maybe here, but not a kvcd's site, as everyone is very happy doing kdvds, which btw are truly dvd compliant.
Guess you didn't know that either, right?

I'm not new to this, I was making DVDs back when kVCD was in its infancy.

Yeah right, I can see that

Like I said, use what you want. Have fun. As long I don't have to watch it, it's all good.

Guess you didn't watch that sample link I took from kvcds site, right?
Keep dreaming

[lordsmurf]

Typical.

This thread has drifted,
and personal attacks on members are not needed.

Locked.

If the original poster still needs help, he can start a new topic.