Editing utility recommendation.

[AlecWest]

Let's assume I have a PAL (720x576) M2V file. It's a widescreen M2V so cutting off the top and bottom won't lose any content. Question ... is there a simple editing utility out there that will cut it down to a 720x480 M2V (48 off the top, 48 off the bottom) without impairing quality?

[bugster]

Let's assume I have a PAL (720x576) M2V file. It's a widescreen M2V so cutting off the top and bottom won't lose any content. Question ... is there a simple editing utility out there that will cut it down to a 720x480 M2V (48 off the top, 48 off the bottom) without impairing quality?

M2V, I gues that means mpeg-2 video.

AFAIK, no. The only methods of resizing mpeg-2 video, even by cropping, that I am aware of require the video to be re-encoded. This will always cause some quality loss. How much depends on the tools and settings used.

Perhaps someone else can correct me if I am wrong?

[FulciLives]

Also if you are going from PAL (720x576) to NTSC (720x480) then you need to RESIZE ... CROPPING is not proper and will give you an aspect ratio error.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[AlecWest]

Also if you are going from PAL (720x576) to NTSC (720x480) then you need to RESIZE ... CROPPING is not proper and will give you an aspect ratio error.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

OK, here comes the stupid question. What's the difference between a "resize" and "cropping?" And what utility would I use to resize?

[FulciLives]

Also if you are going from PAL (720x576) to NTSC (720x480) then you need to RESIZE ... CROPPING is not proper and will give you an aspect ratio error.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

OK, here comes the stupid question. What's the difference between a "resize" and "cropping?" And what utility would I use to resize?

I assume you are attempting to convert PAL to NTSC ... correct?

If so then you have 2 issues:

1.) Change frame size (resize in this case 720x576 to 720x480)
2.) Change frame rate (25fps ---> 23.976fps/29.970fps)

To do all of that you will need to re-encode the M2V to a new M2V. No way around that really.

As for the difference between cropping and resizing ...

Here is an original PAL DVD image (720x576)


Here is the PAL image cropped to 720x480


Here is the PAL image resized to 720x480


To make it easier to "see" the difference here is the cropped image (left) and the resized image (right). Both reduced by 50% so you can see them side by side more easily on your computer monitor ... thus making the difference more noticealbe.



As you can see they look different. The resize method is the proper method when going from PAL (720x576) to NTSC (720x480).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[AlecWest]

As you can see they look different. The resize method is the proper method when going from PAL (720x576) to NTSC (720x480).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Well, yes, they do look different. The cropped version looks good and the resized version looks weird.

[FulciLives]

As you can see they look different. The resize method is the proper method when going from PAL (720x576) to NTSC (720x480).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Well, yes, they do look different. The cropped version looks good and the resized version looks weird.

Dude don't give me a hard time ... I am trying to help you by giving you the proper information with pictorial examples no less.

It's your funeral if you want to crop instead of resize ... if you crop you get a big time aspect ratio error as evident in the pictures (hence my use of them).

Whatever.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[AlecWest]

Dude don't give me a hard time ... I am trying to help you by giving you the proper information with pictorial examples no less.

I'm not giving you a hard time. I'm merely trying to understand. This is all new to me ... and I'm just trying to figure out how a squinched 720x480 display will be properly displayed on a DVD player. Honest.

[FulciLives]

Dude don't give me a hard time ... I am trying to help you by giving you the proper information with pictorial examples no less.

I'm not giving you a hard time. I'm merely trying to understand. This is all new to me ... and I'm just trying to figure out how a squinched 720x480 display will be properly displayed on a DVD player. Honest.

For the PAL format a height of 576 is 100% height.

For the NTSC format a height of 480 is 100% height.

So you need to resize from 576 to 480.

It isn't "squinched" or anything.

It will look normal on a NTSC television.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[AlecWest]

For the PAL format a height of 576 is 100% height.

For the NTSC format a height of 480 is 100% height.

So you need to resize from 576 to 480.

It isn't "squinched" or anything.

It will look normal on a NTSC television.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

So this is something internally corrected. Is this related to the difference between a 16:9 PAL DVD being re-encoded as 4:3 NTSC?

[FulciLives]

For the PAL format a height of 576 is 100% height.

For the NTSC format a height of 480 is 100% height.

So you need to resize from 576 to 480.

It isn't "squinched" or anything.

It will look normal on a NTSC television.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

So this is something internally corrected. Is this related to the difference between a 16:9 PAL DVD being re-encoded as 4:3 NTSC?

No.

Think of it like this ... a 20" TV is a 20" TV in a NTSC country or a PAL country (actually what we call a 20" TV in the USA I think they call a 21" in Europe but that's because we measure differenctly ... but technically still the same size).

So a 20" TV is the same size the world over.

But the height of a PAL video is 576 whereas the height of a NTSC video is 480 yet both look normal, height wise, on a 20" TV.

So 576 PAL = 480 NTSC

Now in this particular case that you are talking about ... if the original PAL is WS but not 16x9 enhanced then you can make the NTSC 16x9 enchanced by cutting 72 off the top and bottom of the PAL image (thus going from 576 to 432) then you resize that 720x432 image to 720x480 and you have a 16x9 WS NTSC video. This works when the original PAL is 4:3 WS with an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 or higher. It will not work if the aspect ratio is less such as 1.66:1

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[tim6661234]

The Ratio of the image in terms of what is displayed is not dependent on the number of pixels, hence why the films look the same on both PAL and NTSC. If you could view them without the aspec ratio correction they would look very strange and the wide screen image would take up the hole from. The black bars don't exist as such this is just your player filling in the gap. If you view them with power dvd the video form resizes itself (no black bars).

So you can't simply cut off the top and bottom areas to convert it.

The aspect ration is stored in the header of the mpeg file so that the player knows how to output it.

The exception to this is if the file is marked as a 4:3 but has video encoded with the black bars on it. An example of this if capturing a analogue video thats in wide screen. Videos don't know anything about aspect ratio so you will end up with a mpeg file with the black bars in as part of the picture.

That why you FulciLives correcly told you to run the file through an encoder and resize it.

There are tools on this site that will tell you what aspect ratio you mpeg file is.

Good Luck

P.S.
I'd run it through TMPGEnc as it will resize for you and generally detects the ratio of the input file.

[AlecWest]

That why you FulciLives correcly told you to run the file through an encoder and resize it.

Actually, I think we were talking about the same thing, just using different terminology. My original question asked if there was a simple utility to crop (and resize) an M2V file. By simple, I meant something other than what I was going to do ... namely, use VirtualDubMod to create a 720x480 resized AVI from which I'd encode a new M2V.

But, if I understand you correctly, I can skip VirtualDubMod and just resize with TMPGEnc. And though it may display squinched on my monitor screen, the encoding process will know what the true display size for NTSC should be. Correct?

[tim6661234]

Actually, I think we were talking about the same thing, just using different terminology. My original question asked if there was a simple utility to crop (and resize) an M2V file. By simple, I meant something other than what I was going to do ... namely, use VirtualDubMod to create a 720x480 resized AVI from which I'd encode a new M2V.

But, if I understand you correctly, I can skip VirtualDubMod and just resize with TMPGEnc. And though it may display squinched on my monitor screen, the encoding process will know what the true display size for NTSC should be. Correct?

It will only display sqinched if the app your using to view the image doesn't compensate for the aspect settings. You are best doning a preview before you start you encode to set an idea of if it looks correct. Then run the encode (using a single pass) for a couple of minutes into your source, stop the encode and test. If all looks good then you're there.

If not there are 3 settings involved. On the Video tab (in settings) you have the Aspec ratio. This is the destination ratio (usually best kept the same as you source file.
On the Advanced tab you have the source aspect ratio
Also the video arrangement method, how do you want to convert it. I use Full Screen keep aspect ratio. This should keep everything correct.

The guides to the left go into more detail.

[AlecWest]

If not there are 3 settings involved. On the Video tab (in settings) you have the Aspec ratio. This is the destination ratio (usually best kept the same as you source file. On the Advanced tab you have the source aspect ratio. Also the video arrangement method, how do you want to convert it. I use Full Screen keep aspect ratio. This should keep everything correct.

The guides to the left go into more detail.

Hmm. I don't see those tabs. You must be referring to TMPGenc DVD Author. All I have is TMPGenc Plus (a soon to expire trial version I may buy unless the ULead DVD Movie Factory I got with my PVR150 card can do the same things).

[tim6661234]

No I don't mean the authering software just press the settings button near the bottom left

[AlecWest]

No I don't mean the authering software just press the settings button near the bottom left.

Duhhh (blush). I'd never pressed that button before, hehe. Learn something new every day. But, it was near bottom center on mine.

[stresspot]

I have pinnacle 8 editing programm, I keep trying to save my camcorder data to disc as DVD, but to no avail. My computor keeps saying no drive supported. I can burn dvd's on it, so it is obviously working.

Anyone out there can help with simple instructions, I'm no computor wizard !!!!!!!!!

[FulciLives]

I have pinnacle 8 editing programm, I keep trying to save my camcorder data to disc as DVD, but to no avail. My computor keeps saying no drive supported. I can burn dvd's on it, so it is obviously working.

Anyone out there can help with simple instructions, I'm no computor wizard !!!!!!!!!

Start your own thread because this has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman