Chapter numbering across dvd's

[alsyed]

Okay, I'm making a 2 disc dvd, the 2nd disc following off where disc 1 left off. I want the chapter numbers to follow on across the discs, and I was hoping to follow what I've seen on a commercial disc I own, namely Lawrence of Arabia.

the way they have done it, is that chapters 1 - 36 are on disc 1, and on disc 2, they have 36 dummy chapters in the first 58 seconds, with obviously a vm command on the first cell point so that it skips this section and leads straight on to chapter 37, the start of the 2nd part. Now these 58 seconds are not part of the original asset as I ripped this asset to the hard drive, and these 58 seconds didn't show. Thats alright, as I sort of have an idea. Looking at the ifo file, it showing 22 cells, cells 1 to 21 are for the movie itself, cell 22 looks to be very small, and is called 36 times at the beginning for these dummy chapters. Now when you play the dvd, you can't access any part of these 58 seconds or any of the 36 chapters as they all seem to point to chapter 1.

So has anyone, succesfully made a dvd with this sort of thing? And if so how did they manage to get the chapter points to run consecutively from the 1st disc? While still maintaining correct time code, and having it so chapter 37 on the remote or windvd's chapter list actually takes you to chapter 37? I don't want to remap chapter 2 to 38, 3 to 39 and so on. I just want it with those 36 dummies to "pad" the chapters out.

I am using dvdlab pro rc2, and ifoedit 0.96

[MackemX]

it's possible as I did this a while back with DVDRemake and Ifoedit while playing around

first you would need to blank out all of the cells that you don't want but keep the original cell structure. At the end of the pre commands in the movie PGC add a command to link to the cell that contains chapter 37

this is optional but if you use the chapter menu it will jump straight to chapter 37 without skipping through the blanks (some players are slow at this). Create a cell command and get that to point to chapter 37 (whatever cell it is). Assign that cell command to all the cells previous to chapter 37

to keep the original timecodes you can easily copy the original overall PGC timecode. You can also just edit one of the blanked cells to make up for the missing timecode. Just take the original time and the blanked time and work out what is missing

just in case you don't know how to work out a timecode here is an example

original is 02:45:24.20 /25fps (2hrs:45mins:24secs:20frames)
blanked is 01:50:21.04 /25fps

the difference is 00:55:03:16 so to work out the decimal value you would simply create the hex value first

55 03 16 which is 55 for the minutes, 03 for the seconds and 16 is the frames. The hex value should also include whether it's 25 or 30 fps. If it's 25 frames per second you add 40 to the hex value. If you want to have it in NTSC (30fps) you add C0. Its probably easier to convert the hex timecode you want into decimal first and then just add 64 for PAL or 192 for NTSC as Ifoedit uses decimal anyway

hopefully whenever you play the DVD it will always jump to Chapter 37 displaying Chapter 37 and keep the original timecode

[alsyed]

Okay, i don't really want to use a template like that, but i think i have worked it out. in dvd lab pro.

1. make sure you have about 40 frames of blank video at the end of the 2nd video clip on the 2nd disc
2. set all the chapter points that you want in your 2nd video and write them down somewhere, preferably the frame number
3. add 2 dummy chapters, 1 40 frames into the 2nd movie, and 1 at the end of the video at the start of those blank video frames in step 1
4. now add after that first dummy chapter, dummy chapters that take will take the total cells in the video up to the amount that is required.. ie if it is supposed to be chapter 11 - 20 (ie 10 chapters) then you'd need to add 8 extra dummy chapters along with those 2 initial ones, will take the total up to 20 chapters for the video. You need see to create 20 cells like that
5. set a vm command on the first chapter, to link to the first chapter that should be in this example, cell 11
6. author out your dvd when needed
7. open up this ifo file and navigate to VTS_PGC_1 or whatever the pgc is, and you'll need to update your total playblack time to include your amount of dummy chapters multiplied by 40 frames. So in this case, you'd have to add 400 frames to the total time. Convert that back into bcd format.
8. now i usually copy this part of the file to an excel spreadsheet, so that i have the original values of each cell.
9. Its quite tricky, but the original chapter points that you want in the movie that are actually functional to the user, just copy into the specific cell group the figures. Now the final cell, would have been that cell entry at the beginning of those 40 blank frames at the end. This cell, is where your first 10 or so dummy chapters will point to. The remaining cells now point to your actual chapters. It involves updating your cell positions, so that the first 10 cell id's point to the original end cell id, and so forth.the pgc program map should be kept as 1-1, 2-2 ... 18-18, 19-19.. etc

After all that, you should navigate back to the first page, and the program chain should show the first chapter as normal, and all the dummy chapters showing up as layer breaks.

I haven't actually done this fully yet, just a test, but the timecode thing works, the only thing i forgot is not to create all the cells in dvdlab. Theoreticlly it should all work, and hoping that it you won't be able to enter into those dummy chapters without it going straight to chapter 1, then linking straight back to your first real chapter.

sounds vague and complicated doesn't it!!

[MackemX]

do you want the timecode to start from where it left off from Disc 1 or from 00:00:00:00?

I also thought you would be authoring the original DVD keeping menus etc but you have rebuilt it

if you wanted the original time to continue in your example can you not just change the timecode in the main PGC and one cell then keeping 10 blank chapters?. The last precommand for the PGC would be to jump to chapter 11. Are you sure you need to change cell positions?

I can partially follow what you are saying but I don't know exactly what you are trying to accomplish

[alsyed]

okay, 2 questions now. I did do this example fully, and i am getting it to work for the chapters etc, but the time code is now all wrong. Now, when you create chapter in the dvd authoring program, are these cell ranges written in the vob file itself? Or does the ifo file select them. I think it would be the former, as an ifo file is not needed when you use dvd2avi, and it seems to know where the cells are. So is there any way to change these cell bounds in the vob file? And how about the time code? how would i be able to play around with that?

I'm trying to upload the ifo file of the commercial example so you can take a look at that to see what i'm trying to do.

edit: can't upload the ifo file, tried zipping it, still not working. how to upload files?

[MackemX]

which example did you do, yours or mine?

I think yours will have the wrong timecode due to the short playback times of the cell you are pointing to but I do know mine works as I did it

just edit the timecodes in the IFO's produced by DVDLAB for the blank cells back to the original ones and change the overall PGC time

I haven't got a clue how to upload files and I'm not sure if you can upload commercial IFO's

do you want the timecode on the 2nd DVD to continue from where Disc 1 finished or do you want it to start from 00:00:00:00?

[alsyed]

Okay, i managed to make advances again. I now have correct timecode, and playing in windvd is working fine, with the correct chapters showing as you navigate through... but 2 things are weird..

In the commercial example, i am able to use the slider bar in windvd to quickly move through the film - there is a break in play as soon as i move the slider, sometimes pausing it, and the behaviour is more apparent towards the ending chapters.

2nd thing is that although the correct number of chapters show up in the chapter number, the drop down list of chapter selections only show the original amount of chapters that i authored, and not the amount i added in ifoedit.

I'm sorry I am doing so many things after the other and my english is not so good to fully explain things better.

My ifo almost is now identical to the commercial one, and it took me a lot of steps there. I think i will have to update some navigational parameters on it further to get it to smoothly slide and also to see that all the chapters are there on the list.

[MackemX]

I cannot follow how you are doing it the way you are . I tested my method above again and it worked just fine

in simple terms, blank out the cells in the original VOB's using one of the various cell blanking tools available. Edit the PGC total timecode and the first cell timecode to compensate for the missing timecode. Add the command to jump to the Chapter at the end of the precommands and that's it

[alsyed]

okay, will try what you said tomorrow... i'm off to bed now.

At the moment, i am doing the 2nd dvd. It has chapters 6 - 10, so i add 5 chapters in dvd lab pro. I have an extra chapter right at the end which is incidently 40 frames or 1 second 15 frames, which i use as for chapters 1 - 5 "dummies".

Once authored i have the ifo files, and under PTT_SRPTI, i add 4 extra chapters. then under VTS_PGC_1, i change number of programs and number of cells both to 10. The playback time BCD, is increased by 4 x 40 frames, ie 160 frames or 6.4 seconds. Then the PGC program map is updated by matching 1 to 1 . 9 - 9 and 10 -10.
Now once refreshed, i have 10 cell groups in this VTS_PGC_1. I then point the first 5 cells groups to the actual 6th cell which was the chapter right near the end of the video at the startign of those 40 blank frames. The remaing cells 6 - 10, are updated with the correct chapter times , with cell 6 being updated to start from time code zero. then finally the cell position in vob are updated, so that the first 5 vob cell id's are pointing to cell id 6, and the remaining 6- 10 are pointing to cell id 1 thru 5. I finally put the LInkCn 6 as a cell command, with the first 5 cells having that as its cell command.

When it plays, it starts on chapter 1, and then at 00:00:01:15 links straight to chapter 6. The time code is all correct. The chapter numbers are showing correctly in the windvd display.

but, when i click on the drop down chapter select, it shows only chapte 1 - 6. Now when the video has played thru to say chapter 8, it won't show up on this chapter menu, but it will display chapter 8 in the windvd display. Plus sliding the slider causes interruptions in play.

Okay thats how i did it so far. The ifo looks virtually the same type as that commercial one. But those 2 problems are not problems on the commercial one.

Now, blanking out cells? Would this mean i should create initially as many cell as i would need in the end, and then author it, and then blank out the ones i don't need? and then just work out the ifo as you say?

I think i get it now anyway. (I hope)

[MackemX]

just blank out the ones in the original you don't need

I can't understand how you say the the timecode correct when at Chapter 6 it's 00:00:01:15, surely it will be 1 second 15 frames out?. You should just put a command at the end of the precommand to jump to chapter 6 instead of letting cell 1 play then jumping

do you want Chapter 6 to start with 00:00:00:00 or with the original timecode from the original VOB?

it's probably showing chapters 1-6 in the dropdown menu as there are only 6 cells. You would need to add the programs in the IFO manually but you shouldn't have to do stuff like that if you just blank the original keeping the original structure

[alsyed]

Okay, the original commercial dvd (disc 2), which i am trying to emulate by building my own one from scratch, has the following attributes.

When i load the vobs into dvd2avi, it shows 22 cells. The 22nd cell being 40 frames from the end of the video, and is black empty frames.

When i open up its ifo file in ifoedit, under the PGC_1 program chain there is 57 entries (one is a proper layer break). Here are some of those entries...

[Ch 01] [Pg 01] [Cell 01] [V/C Id: 1/22] : time: 00:00:01.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:00:01.15] [Frames: 40] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/yes]
[Ch 02] [Pg 02] [Cell 02] [V/C Id: 1/22] Layer Br.: time: 00:00:01.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:00:03.05] [Frames: 80] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/yes]
[Ch 03] [Pg 03] [Cell 03] [V/C Id: 1/22] Layer Br.: time: 00:00:01.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:00:04.20] [Frames: 120] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/yes]
....
...
[Ch 36] [Pg 36] [Cell 36] [V/C Id: 1/22] Layer Br.: time: 00:00:01.15 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:00:57.15] [Frames: 1440] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/yes]
[Ch 37] [Pg 37] [Cell 37] [V/C Id: 1/ 1] Layer Br.: time: 00:04:09.00 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:05:06.15] [Frames: 7665] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[ no/ no/yes/yes]
[Ch 38] [Pg 38] [Cell 38] [V/C Id: 1/ 2] : time: 00:06:09.13 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:11:16.03] [Frames: 16903] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/yes]
[Ch 39] [Pg 39] [Cell 39] [V/C Id: 1/ 3] : time: 00:07:10.11 / 25 fps [Pos: 00:18:26.14] [Frames: 27664] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/yes].....
.....
.....
[Ch 55] [Pg 55] [Cell 56] [V/C Id: 1/20] : time: 00:05:22.08 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:21:30.13] [Frames: 122263] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/yes]
[Ch 56] [Pg 56] [Cell 57] [V/C Id: 1/21] : time: 00:03:30.12 / 25 fps [Pos: 01:25:01.00] [Frames: 127525] SP/ILVU/DISC/SA:[yes/ no/ no/yes]

Now going into PTT_SRPTI, they have PTT_1 to PTT_56 all linking from 1 to 56.

In VTS_PGC_1, the PGC commant table is...


PGC Command Table:
Number of Pre Commands 17
Number of Post Commands 2
Number of Cell Commands 2
Size of Command table in bytes 175
1.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<43690><'ªª'> then Goto line# 17
2.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<13107><'33'> then Goto line# 17
3.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<17476><'DD'> then Goto line# 17
4.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8195><' '> then Goto line# 17
5.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8209><' '> then Goto line# 17
6.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8194><' '> then Goto line# 17
7.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8208><' '> then Goto line# 17
8.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8201><'
9.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8196><' '> then Goto line# 17
10.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8198><' '> then Goto line# 17
11.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8199><' '> then Goto line# 17
12.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8200><' '> then Goto line# 17
13.Pre Command If GPreg<14> == (cmp-val)<8197><' '> then Goto line# 17
14.Pre Command Set GPreg<12> mov (set-val)<0>
15.Pre Command Set GPreg<15> mov (set-val)<1>
16.Pre Command Break
17.Pre Command (CallSS VTSM) Call TitleSet root-menu [Resume Cell: 1]
1.Post Command Set GPreg<15> mov (set-val)<0>
2.Post Command (CallSS VMGM) Call VMG PGC: 5 [Resume Cell: 1]
1.Cell Command (LinkCN) Link Cell 37, [button=0]
2.Cell Command NOP

The PGC program map shows 1 to 57 including the actual layer break.

Under cell playblack,


Cell_1: Cell type (Angle) 3
type normal
Block type normal
seamless playback linked in PCI: no
interleaved: no
STC discontinuity: yes
seamless angle linked in DSI: yes
Cell_1: Cell restricted? 0
restricted: no
Cell_1: still time (seconds, 0xFF = Infinite) 0
Cell_1: command Nr (0 = no command) 1
Cell_1: playback time (BCD) 341
playback time (hh:mms.frame) 00:00:01.15 / 25 fps
Cell_1: entry point sector 1680946
Cell_1: first ILVU VOBU end sector 0
Cell_1: start sector of last VOBU 1681064
Cell_1: last sector of this cell 1681113

this cell is identical to cell_2 to cell_36,

Cell_37: Cell type (Angle) 3
type normal
Block type normal
seamless playback linked in PCI: no
interleaved: no
STC discontinuity: yes
seamless angle linked in DSI: yes
Cell_37: Cell restricted? 0
restricted: no
Cell_37: still time (seconds, 0xFF = Infinite) 0
Cell_37: command Nr (0 = no command) 0
Cell_37: playback time (BCD) 264512
playback time (hh:mms.frame) 00:04:09.00 / 25 fps
Cell_37: entry point sector 0
Cell_37: first ILVU VOBU end sector 0
Cell_37: start sector of last VOBU 24796
Cell_37: last sector of this cell 24878

Cell_38: Cell type (Angle) 9
type normal
Block type normal
seamless playback linked in PCI: yes
interleaved: no
STC discontinuity: no
seamless angle linked in DSI: yes
Cell_38: Cell restricted? 0
restricted: no
Cell_38: still time (seconds, 0xFF = Infinite) 0
Cell_38: command Nr (0 = no command) 0
Cell_38: playback time (BCD) 395603
playback time (hh:mms.frame) 00:06:09.13 / 25 fps
Cell_38: entry point sector 24879
Cell_38: first ILVU VOBU end sector 0
Cell_38: start sector of last VOBU 146385
Cell_38: last sector of this cell 146595


cell 38 is basically for all purposes similar to the remaining cells, with obviously different playback times and different addresses.

Down to Cell Position in VOB,
all Vob ID are = 1, Cell 1 to 36 having Cell ID = 22, and cell 37 to 57 are Cell ID = 1 to 21.

Under VTS_C_ADT, there are 22 Cells.

__________________

When played in Windvd, time code starts at 0:00:00:00 at chapter 1, at timecode 0:00:01:15, it jumps straight to chapter 37 which is at 0:00:57:15. And the actual movie begins playing. The timecode isn't put back to zero, and it doesn't really need to be, thats no problem, as the timecode ticks over normally. Now, with the drop down chapter list, it shows chapter 1 to 56. With the chapter display in console being ticked in the drop down list. If you try to select any of these chapters 2 - 36 it will link straight back to point 1. Rewinding from point 37, as soon as it goes past cell 37, then straight back to chapter 1. And also, I can use the slider bar as well without interruptions.

____________

Now with my own dvd that i'm making. Starting from scratch. I want to emulate this dvd's example, I assume that it was authored to have 21 main cells with a 22nd cell to pad out the beginning to get the chapters correct.

In my example, i am using 5 main cells (for chapter 6 - 10), with a 6th cell to be used only to pad out the beginning 5 chapters. I use ifoedit to add 4 more cells, and relocate the orignal cells 1 to 5 mapping them to the new cells 6 - 10. The original cell 6, is only used for the new cells 1 - 5, with vm command to link to new cell 6.

The timecode is as it should be, following the commercials example. The 2 problems now being that the drop down list shows only 6 chapters, when it should show 10. At chapter 6, ie the start of the movie, it shows a tick on chapter 6 in the drop down list, but chapters 7 - 10 while showing on the dvd player console thing, but not on the drop down list.

and dragging the slider causes the playback to be completely interrupted.

I've explained this to the best of my ability now, i hope you can now follow what i'm trying to do. I don't want the time code to follow on from the first movie, thats something i may consider doing once i've worked out how to do what i'm currently trying to do.

[MackemX]

when you are adding the 4 new cells, Ifoedit is not creating chapters out of them

the VIDEO_TS.IFO also contains info about how many chapters are in the Title in the VMG_PTT_SRPT table. Have you changed this to 10 instead of 6?

in the PTT_SRPTI table for the IFO which contains the Title did you specify the 10 chapter cells also?

[alsyed]

aha, i perhaps have not updated the video_ts.ifo file with the new amount of chapters.

I did update the PTT_SRPTI.

Thanks i'll try that now

[alsyed]

Okay, that worked, it now shows the 10 chapters in the drop down list.

Awesome!!!

Now, i have to work out what is causing the disruption to playback when moving the slider.

Thanks very much though!!!

[MackemX]

, pleased to hear you got it working a little more

all I can think of with the slider issue, is to perform a dummy strip with Ifoedit or run it through DVDShrink as they may fix it for you

[alsyed]

Okay, things are working okay. Though a problem i forgot to anticipate. My original scene selection menu does not work, as there are 15 selections there... and these are pointing obviously to chapters 1 - 15. Now, with all my additions of cells in the ifo, chapters 1 - 20 actually go back to chapter 1. So i thought, that while authoring, I should update the chapter points. Problem is that at that point, there is only chapters 1 to 16, so I'm assuming the only way to be able to point to a chapter beyond what is currently in is to insert a VM command. Now the thing is, what command would you use for chapter selection when using a vm command?
The movie is the only object in this vts. along with 1 menu.

[alsyed]

okay worked out how to do that, it was rather straightforward. Have to do it definitely before compile, but instead of normally linking that chaptes, the vm command is offset like this on each scene selection thumbnail.

ie, using this vm command
JumpVTS_PTT (tt 1, ptt 6)

Now my next problem, is the slider problem, so that the movie slides nicely.

I think my solution might be to originally make the chapters on the timecode finally before compiling.

order for use with dvd lab pro:
set chapter points for the place you want a thumbnail for motion menu.
make motion menu
move chapter points to the place where they should be finally, this will be the timecode offset according to how much padding chapters and their respective duration is.
Thus the vob cells will be located on that time code, and there will be no actual physical change between the ifo and vobs.

at least that is what i think is causing the problem!

Will try that later on. eeeeekk more work!!

[alsyed]

Okay, nailed it down pat now


Forget the last post, the way to do it, is as you originally said Mackemx, is the dummy chapters, i set the time code duration to each of them at zero. This saves a lot of calculation too with moving the chapters around. And it means the actual duration of the movie is kept proper. Now the slider works brilliant, and all the above things work also.

Perhaps i will write an indepth tutorial on how to do this so at least i will remember. Its quite a bit of work, but worth the effort.

I have a feeling to get the timecode to follow on as well from part 1, it would involve a little bit more work, and relocating chapters again - because when i did relocate the chapters before, sliding did work in parts, but where the cells between vob and ifo didn't quite match up there were errors in the chapter number, and it would stick a couple of times. Anyway, i'm off to bed, i'm sick of dvd authoring for now heheheh

[MackemX]

I have a feeling to get the timecode to follow on as well from part 1, it would involve a little bit more work, and relocating chapters again - because when i did relocate the chapters before, sliding did work in parts, but where the cells between vob and ifo didn't quite match up there were errors in the chapter number, and it would stick a couple of times. Anyway, i'm off to bed, i'm sick of dvd authoring for now heheheh

it should be simple as I mentioed it before. Just add the timcode of the 1st disc movie PGC into the first blank cell using Ifoedit. Also edit the overall PGC time to the whole movie timecode and that should be it

[alsyed]

Okay, tried that, and it works, but then you get the problem with the slider thing in windvd. So i'm just sticking with zero time padding with the appropriate amount of padding chapters.

[MackemX]

I can see why the slider thing is happening, probably due to the VOBU pointers but what about your standalone?

would it do the same thing as WINDVD?

[alsyed]

its not really a problem as the standalone obviously doesn't have a slider, but you are right, the vobu pointers would have been "painstakingly" worked out before hand, and the vob files/mpeg files precisely worked out in terms of i frames. For me, I don't mind the time code thing though.

I play half on my computer (laptop system) and half on my standalone, so sliding is of some importance.