Newer Burners seem much Better then Older Burners?

[Mortomer]

I just was curious how many people have purchased newer burners who also owned older burners and who have realized that their newer burners can burn cheaper media much better then the older burners? I have had a total of 4 burners now, the first two were the NEC-1300 and the Sony DRU-500A and both of those had many problems with the cheaper, less expensive media so I always had to shell out more money for more expensive media like Maxell, TDK, Taiyo Yuden, etc.

But my last two burners are some of the newer burners (Lite-On SOHW 32) and the Sony DRU-540A double layer burner. Both of these burners seem to be excellent in burning cheaper costing disks but they burn them without a hitch and whereas I don't have any playback issues at all so I'm obviously thrilled about that.

I have burned quite a bit of cheap media in the newer drives such as Khypermedia from Office Max and quite a bit of the Sonic 4x discs and New Generation Matrix 8x discs from shop4tech all of which have burned and played perfectly. Alot of that cheaper media would not burn nearly as great in my first two burners. So my conclusion is that you can burn cheap media with excellent results as long as you have a more recent DVD Burner.

Anyone else experience similiar?

[kiki]

I started out with a pioneer 105.
I then moved on to a nec 2500a 8x burner.
I have had exactly the same experience as you.
I am far more confident of my 2500 burns on
cheaper media than I ever was with the 105.
I burn princos and prodisks and they play flawlessly
on a variety of players.
I am just guessing, but I believe that the newer
burners are using higher strength lasers.

kiki

[GizmoTheGremlin]

newer burners tend to get more support. When I got my LiteOn 411s I had a 100 princo 1x discs to toy with. The first 10 out of 10 were coasters. I upgraded the firmware and 89 out of the next 90 played perfectly.

Point is, the older your drive is, the less likely they will be to make new firmware supporting additional brands of media. Meanwhile the media will continue to get cheaper and more variable.

Give your drives a couple of years, and you may find that you're in the same boat that you were.

[lordsmurf]

I disagree.

My PIONEER 103 from 2001 is still doing quite nice on media (family member has it). It only has trouble on some PRINCO and TDKG02 during the acknowledgement phase. Always been that way.

My Pioneer 105 does just fine on all the newest media, does great on 8x media burned 4x (max of burner).

I know a lot of older burners, doing just great.

The lasers and all is identical (in terms of "strength", so let's not start more crazy myths). The difference is firmware.

[GizmoTheGremlin]

you're right. it's definately firmware. but the older your drive gets, the less likely that you will still get support with new firmware. your drive may be 10 years old before this happens, but I would bet that eventually you will find some media incompatibility issues. If at that point you decide to ask pioneer, liteOn, or whoever about it, they will tell you that they don't make new firmware for that model.

Get a new drive, and you're back at square one. Fresh support, fresh firmware.

I didn't mean to imply that a two year old burner is junk or anything even close to that. It can be great for a long time. I was just talking about firmware.

[overloaded_ide]

GizmoTheGremlin,

While I may agree with you, in 10 years your burner is legacy as they call it!!

I meen to be real about it, look ten years ago!! Look now!!
You can tell alot about the future by looking at the past.
What from 10 years ago is worth having today in the world of computers?
Sure I still have and ocasionally use my AMD DX4 100 with 32 MB ram and 2 gig hardrive, and at the office I have a garbage Intell 133mhz system setup to surf the net for friends or geusts (not that I use it myself).
And actually the speed things are moving we are probably looking at 3-5 yrs instead of 10. Did we even have DVD burners 5 yrs ago, and now we have 16x burners and DL burners!

newer burners can burn cheaper media much better then the older burners?

Is that newer cheaper media or pulling out the older cheaper media and trying again? Just curouis. Might be interesting if someone had a bunch of old media laying around that was making all coasters to try that in some newer drives. If it's newer cheap media, maybe alot of it has gotton better also compared to that which was making the coasters. Would also be interesting if someone had the old drives still and tried the new cheap media that used to be all coasters.

So many variables, probably using newer burning software also?
But in any case be glad it's working, right

The above smiley should be the only one. I seamed to have lost one somewhere, don't you just hate when that happens! Click for a smiley, it should be here but it's not. Where did it go? No big deal, but hopefully did not end up where it will be miss interpedted.

[lenti_75]

it's not about drives themselves, it's all bout 2 things...

1. better firmware and that will get even better.
2. cheaper media that gets better, still cheap, but the production procees is improved.

will see a lot of different dyes colors. remember when cd-r came out ???....all gold, then blue, then almost white......

[GizmoTheGremlin]

What from 10 years ago is worth having today in the world of computers?

I agree. I was just pulling that number out of my arse to make a point.
I think I've confused more people than I've helped in this thread. My apologies.

[Mortomer]

I actually have burned older media I've had laying around with the older burners and they just don't burn it as great as the newer burners. The poster who said it's a myth is way off. It actually isn't rocket science. Newer burners do have more "strength" in the lasers that's how they can burn 8x, and 12, and soon 16x. All of this is over the internet and pretty much common sense to be honest. Dual Layer burners are also much more precise because look at the technology, again, it's common sense. So it doesn't surprise me that some other people have had the same experience with newer drives that I have had. Oh, and sure the firmware plays a role too, but my first Sony still has newer releases of firmware and that doesn't do diddly on the cheap media. The engineers have really made advances on the technology that goes into newer burners and i'm just hoping that pace continues, maybe I'll be able to burn a coffee can top with the next generation burners.

[GizmoTheGremlin]

maybe I'll be able to burn a coffee can top with the next generation burners.

I'm sure that there are a couple of hundred experts on this site that will tell you you're crazy and explain why. They used to give all kinds of reasons why dual layer burners would never come into being. They were wrong. Once I said that I hoped a firmware upgrade would boost my single layer burner to a dual layer burner and they told me to dream on. They were wrong. It's not anyone's fault. just the way the world is.

Let me just give about 3 cents worth of wisdom, not from an expert, but closer to an idiot.

1. When it comes to technology, today's expert is tomorrows average fool.
2. Anything is possible.

[lordsmurf]

Newer burners do have more "strength" in the lasers that's how they can burn 8x, and 12, and soon 16x.

No.
Newer speeds are achieved by greater spin rates and wobble control.
The laser is a finite wavelength, etc.

We were all proven wrong by DL ... mostly because Pioneer and others told us it was impossible. Tricky bastards.

[HyperYagami]

I have the 1st gen "Made In Japan" DRU-500A, still going strong!

[Capmaster]

My first burner was a Panasonic LF-D311 purchased in 2002. It was very picky. It only liked Maxell (TYG01). It hated most Ritek (including Maxell branded RitekG04) and Ridata red seal, as well as Optodisc gold-top.

My new Pioneer 107D burns anything I've thrown at it so far. It even burns the Maxell branded (Ritek G04) that the Panny E50 standalone chokes on. Muuuuuch better, And it burns the TYG02 8X that meritline has for 92 cents each at 8X - no problem

[QuaiBoy]

I figured it out the other day and I have some on the order of 250-300 burning hours on my single Pioneer 106. It's still as strong a reader/writer as when I bought it (as far as I can tell). Excellent media compatibility with firmware updates. Can count the number of coasters I've had on my fingers.

The whole process is a crapshoot. Different brands/models/revisions of drives react differently with different brands/models/revisions of media, and that's not even taking in account the possible user/hardware issues.

-Evan-

[Mortomer]

No.
Newer speeds are achieved by greater spin rates and wobble control.
The laser is a finite wavelength, etc.

I am no expert but with all due respect, i'm going to have to believe what i've read from engineers regarding the power of lasers, etc. The laser power and I believe something called "OPC" is stronger and better in newer burners then it is in older burners, that's why you can burn at higher speeds. I believe Sony even had a press release stating the laseers were more powerful in the DRU-700A, and 12x DRU-540A. But not even speaking about laser power, you also have laser precision. From my experiences as well as just the technology alone, it's clear to me that the newer burners burn cheaper media better then older burners.

The engineers that make the drives say this so I think I'll take their word for it.

quaiboy, I don't think anyone is doubting the older burners can burn media for years and still go strong. That's something entirely different then this. I guess many people on here have either older burners or newer burners and not both like myself unfortunately.

[onewaypockets]

[quote="Mortomer"]

From my experiences as well as just the technology alone, it's clear to me that the newer burners burn cheaper media better then older burners.

The interaction that goes on between your computer, media brands, burning software, the burner itself, firmware, etc is a complex one and must be looked at as a total system.

So it is interesting to read here how you changing your burner, then go on to proclaim how things are so "clear" to you, when nothing of the sort is possible short of a labratory setup with all variables and interaction considered.

When you are prepared to present your creditentals to us all, preferably a PHD in Engineering and all your lab notes....please let us know

[Capmaster]

Indeed. Sometimes the longer we're in this hobby, the less certain we get ...is that called humility? Especially media, since at any time, unannounced, Maxell could implement a cost-cutting measure that procures their DVD media from CMC or Princo. At the same time, Verbatim could start using exclusively TY media and branding it, because of a better bottom line.

I'd hate to bet what the state of the media game is going to be in next year

[Moloko_Plus]

Bah, i just posted something similar to this in another thread, but screw it:

Ive ripped through 4 burners in the last...4 years id say. The first burner i had, was a a 4x, man that thing never worked at all, paid 150.00 for it too. Second was an Xtasy (Aka Lite-On) that was a 40x i believe. Lasted about a year. Then i had a um, Samsung 48x i think..I dont know, that was on sale at wal-mart, that lasted about a year too, I put that thing through hell. Now i have some standard 52x one, not sure what brand it is, i think "Mad Dog" rings a bell, costed like 20 bucks over the holidays when my samsung burner just decided to stop making cds for me.

My personal opinion is that the newer ones are better, due to personal experiance. My first one never worked at all and the scale of max burn speed went up over the years. Its pretty amazing how far we've come over the last few years, going from 1x to 2x to 4x to 52x and those burners being cheaper and stuff. The only thing that's gone down is the media quality, when stupid brands like fuji and imation stop using taiyo yuden (My first psx game i burned was on a 4x imation cdr by ty, that was like the best day of my life because i was able to play pira.. i mean backup games on my playstation)

[Mortomer]

onewaypockets, what's up with the attack? I don't need to have a PHD in Engineering because I can read. I have a Masters degree but i'm sure you've got 5 of those.

I asked a question and other people have had the same experiences as myself which confirms my belief about newer burners and the technology in general. I also wanted to point out to the other poster that they were incorrect with the information they stated regarding laser power. Laser power is stronger newer burners because they burn at higher speeds and it takes more laser power to burn at 8x then it does at 4x, and at 12x then it does at 8x, etc, etc. Furthermore, technology like Dual Layer assures that the laser's precision is gonna be incredible, and this is something older burners don't have either. This is why I think it's pretty much a no brainer that newer burners burn cheaper media better then older burners. You don't have to agree with it though, I'm sure you have a PHD in engineering so anything i'm saying probably won't make a whole lot of sense, it's only common sense.

[onewaypockets]

Sorry for the strong language and the sarcasm, it was a little over the top and not meant as a personal attack.

I really do stand by my comments about the "system" approach though and how important it is to consider ALL the components in the DVD/CD burning/ripping chain before coming up with final conclusions about changing one "cog" in the wheel.

Examples...with my setup I was getting 100% results of "OPC failed" with BurnAtOnce software with Ritek DVD media. I could not burn a single one. I could have come to the conclusion that Ritek just absolutely sucks, defective batch of media, or that it was a weak laser from an old burner.... end of story, but I tried a different burning program, and in my SYSTEM they burned perfectly. 100% perfect now.

A more powerful laser you talk about may be potentially interesting and maybe even valid, but it has to viewed in the whole context of ripping/burning/computer/media/software environment. Comments like "Ritek sucks", or that Pioneer burners are the best because of the marketing comments on the slick brochure say their laser is the more powerful and thus it has to be better, or now with my new burner I can burn cheap media so it has to be because of the more powerful laser, and other similar comments have to be viewed in the very NARROW context of the users system only.

Your new burner could be burning cheap media just because of a firmware improvment only and not the laser differences, who knows...the older burner might burn just as well with a firmware download. Only the "scientific method" could rule this out or prove this however.

[smearbrick1]

One would hope that the whole tech community has "forward-thinking" in mind when the develop this stuff. It's not like they all sit around and say..."what mistakes did we make last time?" "Ok... Let's duplicate them and add a few more." Certainly there are many arguements to the contrary of this statement (Windows ME), but that's neither here nor there. Point is, one should only expect things to get better with a developing/developed technology. Otherwise, what would be the purpose in ever upgrading? I thought the topic of this forum was funny to begin with... I though a simple "DUH" would have fit it perfectly.

[Mortomer]

onewaypockets, no offense taken and I do understand where you are coming from and pretty much agree with much of what you said. I wasn't drawing my own conclusions that's why I created the post to see where other people stood. But I think it would be nice to see other people's experiences who have had both older burners and newer burners and who still have some old media around which they thought was crap.

Your new burner could be burning cheap media just because of a firmware improvment only and not the laser differences, who knows...the older burner might burn just as well with a firmware download. Only the "scientific method" could rule this out or prove this however

Well the thing here is that I have the latest firmware for my older drives, as well as the latest for the newer, so it seems like the hardware has just really improved "dual layer" reflect that, and Sony just recently released their 16x DVD Writer the "DRU-710A." To burn at 16x would mathematically seem ridiculous, the speed the drive is spinning at and laser precision have got to be incredible. So the technology really seems to be improving in all areas which is great for all of us.

[smearbrick1]

I have some old Ricoh branded CD-RW's (bought about 8 years ago with my 2x Toshiba CDR/RW drive) sitting around that I tried to use in my LiteOn 451s... the drive won't recognize them as RW. The data is readable on them, but I cannot erase them.

I also have an 2x LG CDR/RW drive in my Garage PC that reads and writes any newer CD media I throw in it... Strange.

[delrio]

But not even speaking about laser power, you also have laser precision. From my experiences as well as just the technology alone, it's clear to me that the newer burners burn cheaper media better then older burners.

There's a compatibility initiative at work within the industry:
http://www.osta.org/dvdcc/articles/compatibility.htm
http://www.osta.org/dvdcc/pdf/dvdcc_phase1.pdf

Couldn't say exactly how much effect it has had so far, but they've been at it since 2002.

Del Rio

[handyguy]

My 500a uses Accu Media since I bought it new about 2 years ago. I don't want to use cheapo media. I want my data to be there in a year.