Re-encode-less mpeg2 editor?

[bhwong]

iFilmEdit has been is my fav mpeg1 editor, not only because it is super easy to use, but it can cut and join mpeg1 files without re-encoding them. This mean I can finish cutting and joining mpeg1 files within seconds, not hours! Moreover, there is virtually NO drop in quality since iFilmEdit does NOT re-encode/re-compress the files.

My question is....is there a similar editor for handling mpeg2? I tried tmpegenc (since everyone claim that it has the best mpeg 2 quality), but it's speed and quality has been very disappointing. tmpegenc blur off all my sharp edges!

Just another VCD to DVD hobbist.

[babyboo]

Womble MPEGVCR

[adam]

Were you using the cut and join option in TMPGenc? Look in file/mpeg tools. It does take longer then probably alot of other mpeg2 editors but it doesn't take that long, and it only re-encodes the frames within the GOP where the cut/join is made. This is a requirement for any frame accurrate mpeg1/2 editor.

Since you said that it affected the quality of the entire clip, it sounds like you may have just been loading your file as a video/audio source and using TMPGenc's source range filter to split the file? Don't know, but the quality should be identical.

In any case, no TMPGenc is not so hot for mpeg editing. Womble mpeg2vcr is better and M2-Edit is even better, but very expensive.

What kind of editing are you doing? If you only need simple joins, like merging disks 1 and 2 before authoring to DVD, then you should really just author the tracks seamlessly. They will play as if they are just one mpeg track without the need for the messy joining.

For cutting mpeg2, I never found anything better then bbmpeg. It doesn't actually cut anything, you simply feed it elementary streams (m2v and mp2 or Ac3) and it multiplexes them, splitting at a specified frame # or MB.

[bhwong]

Here's my situation....I'm actually editing with Apple iMovie (the fastest DV editor I know of), re-record the edited clip back to my DV camcorder, cause it takes over 20 hours just to convert iMovie clip into a MPEG2 file on the Mac. After that, I re-capture the DV clip again to PC as MPEG2 using Sonic MyDVD as the encoder does it in realtime! (the fastest DV-to-MPEG2 encoder I know of).

I end up with lots of these MPEG2 clips which I just want to do simple join and split. iFilmEdit can do that to MPEG1 clips without multiplexes them. It's MPEG1 in and MPEG1 out. Thus, there should be some MPEG2 in and MPEG2 out editors rite? Separating MPEG2 into m2v and mp2 wouldn't be compatible with lots of DVD authoring software, not to mention these processes takes time too!

Just another VCD to DVD hobbist.

[adam]

Well when I said to demultiplex them I meant so that bbmpeg could remultiplex them again. Its just the process that you have to use to split with bbmpeg. Like I said it works very well, but no its not at all convenient if your sources are program streams (mpgs.)

For what you are asking, I guess womble mpeg2vcr is the best option for a reasonable price, but mpeg editing is inherantly messy. Mpeg works by only storing so many full frames (I frames) and only storing partial information in the remaining frames. These partial frames are filled in using the information stored in the I frame, during decoding. So when you cut you either must do it on an I frame, which occurs maybe twice each second) or you must re-encode the frames on either side of your cut frame...up to the end of that GOP. It leaves alot of room for problems like sync loss or bitrate spikes, or weird anomolies like artifacts. As you've noticed with your DV clips, editing avi is MUCH simpler.

Your process seems a little convoluted copying your footage back to DV tape only to capture it again, but I suppose that's necessary with your method of real time capturing to mpeg2. Personally, I prefer to just stock up on hard drives and capture all of my DV, edit it to final form, and then frameserve directly to my encoder. If you want to keep your same method, is it not possible to do all of your editing in one go and then copy it back to tape? Mpeg just really isn't a good source for editing, and mpeg2 is even worse then mpeg1. Its best to only encode your final output to mpeg2 if possible.

[bhwong]

Ya, I do know that MPEG is not suitable for editing due to the usage of P and B frames that require I frames to decode into complete images. And from my experience, Adobe Premiere really suck in handling MPEG. It crash far too often. Moreover, Premiere don't really support VCD's MPEG1 format, only DV and MPEG2.

The most feature rich and yet still very stable video editor I tried is Ulead Media Studio Pro. Native support for editing VCD MPEG1 and DVD MPEG2. But it's rendering is still far too slow, despite having the Smart-Rendering feature (It's smart enough render just the required sections, unlike Premiere where it insist on rendering the whole timeline.)

The reason why it is not possible to edit everything in one go is because I am currently editing over 20 hours worth of seminars and these just can't fit into the limitation of 1 hour DV tape.

It will be ideal if there is an utility that can make my editing computer (iMovie) to be seen as a DVcam to my capturing computer (myDVD). Then I can send all 20 hours of video at one go to be converted into a single MPEG file. (There is a utility done by some japanese programmers to stream DV clips on the internet, but it's not working very well currently.)

Maybe I will try capturing my clips as AVI and use bbmpeg to do the conversion as you have suggested. Thanks!

Just another VCD to DVD hobbist.

[adam]

Oh no don't use bbmpeg for encoding. Its quality is lacking compared to current encoders and its probably about 50 times slower...literally. If you need to do any multiplexing or cutting of mpeg 1 or 2 files then bbmpeg works well. That's all its really useful for.

[bhwong]

oh...ok. I wonder are there any website or magazine that have in-depth test for every known MPEG encoders and rank their speed and quality....

Just another VCD to DVD hobbist.