VCR Screen Cap Image Comparision

[BrainStorm69]

I'm going to post 8 screen captures from 7 vcrs that I have. The names will be changed to protect the innocent. The reason there is 8 is because I captured on one vcr with two different settings. I'm not even going to tell you what vcrs they are. Unfortunately, I expected to have one more but it didn't arrive today.

Please pick which one(s) you like best and say why. I know some of you don't believe in comparing screen caps, but I do believe it has merit from a purely relative standpoint. That is to say, I do think you can, for instance, determine which one has the best detail by comparing them all. But I know that some of you may like less detail and pick a screen cap as your favorite for another reason, such as best color. These were all straight from the vcr to the ATI capture card. Nothing in between.

Screen capped in Virtualdubmod as .tga and converted to .jpg in Paintshop Pro.

Remember...which one do you like best and why. You can also rank them all, if you want to spend that much time at it. Anyway, have at it, and at some point later I will reveal the identities of all.

Sample01 Sony SLV-585HF (VHS)


Sample02 Mitsubishi HS-748U (S-VHS)


Sample03 Panasonic PV-VS4821 (S-VHS)


Sample04 Admiral JSJ20455 (Auto Enhance off) (VHS)


Sample05 JVC HR-S9900U (S-VHS)


Sample06 Panasonic PV-VS4820 (S-VHS)


Sample07 Sony SLV-740HF (VHS)


Sample08 Admiral JSJ20455 (Auto Enhance on) (VHS)


Sample09 Toshiba M745 (VHS)


Sample10 Panasonic PV-V4611 (VHS)

[ronnylov]

I liked Sample 03 and Sample 06 best. Not so much ghosting around the letters in the newspaper but still sharper and less fuzzy than some of the other samples.

[BrainStorm69]

I liked Sample 03 and Sample 06 best. Not so much ghosting around the letters in the newspaper but still sharper and less fuzzy than some of the other samples.

Thanks for your input! I'm glad someone finally responded I like looking at the text for comparison, too. I also look at the detail of the sweater on the woman's upper arm, and the bricks on the building in the picture of Spider Man.

Saturday, I received the other vcr I was expecting on Friday, so I'm posting one more picture to the lot (Sample09). Unfortunately, the on-screen display is set to "on," and I don't think I can turn it off without the remote, which I don't have. Back to ebay for a remote!

[ronnylov]

I still like sample 3 and sample 6 better than the others even after the addition of sample 9. I think sample 3 may be a little bit better than sample 6 so if I have to vote for one only I would say sample no 3.

[fmctm1sw]

I usually like these but please bear in mind I'm looking at a 15" monitor. Some are a little sharper than the others from what I can tell. Makes nice text but you can see the harshness in the womans' face when you look close. I guess a good middle would be #5.

[BrainStorm69]

I still like sample 3 and sample 6 better than the others even after the addition of sample 9. I think sample 3 may be a little bit better than sample 6 so if I have to vote for one only I would say sample no 3.

ronnylov, any particular reason why you like 3 a little better? I agree that 3 and 6 are quite similar.

I usually like these but please bear in mind I'm looking at a 15" monitor. Some are a little sharper than the others from what I can tell. Makes nice text but you can see the harshness in the womans' face when you look close. I guess a good middle would be #5.

fmctm1sw, I guess a 15" monitor would make it a little more difficult. Do you think doing 9 at once is just a bit of overkill?

Thanks for your input. Always good to see another/different opinion. I think after I get some more opinions, I'll try making actual mpg clips of the two or three people like best and get folks' opinions on actual video.

[ronnylov]

I'll explain why I think number 3 is best. I like number 3 better than number 6 because it is a little bit softer than number 6. I look especially at the edges around the letter S in the word "DREADS" and there is some kind of minor halo effect (a little bit oversharped maybe) on sample 6 that is not present on sample number 3. Sample number 6 is also just a little bit more noisy. I prefer a clean but still sharp picture but not oversharped.

[BrainStorm69]

I've added one more screen cap...sample10...captured with one of the two VCRs I have left that I haven't posted a screen cap from. I didn't have it here in my computer room where I could capture from it until now.

The last vcr I have is a combo DVD/VCR that does a crappy job of playing tapes, so it's not even worth testing.

[BrainStorm69]

Well, doesn't seem that too many folks had anything to say about the images. Oh well.

Anyway, for what it is worth, below is the list of various VCRs captured from. I have indicated whether it is a VHS or S-VHS unit. When a VCR had an S-Video output available, I used it. But the same VHS tape was played in all.

Sample 01: Sony SLV-585HF (VHS)

Sample 02: Mitsubishi HS-748U (S-VHS)

Sample 03: Panasonic PV-VS4821 (S-VHS)

Sample 04: Admiral JSJ20455 (Auto Enhance off) (VHS)

Sample 05: JVC HR-S9900U (S-VHS)

Sample 06: Panasonic PV-VS4820 (S-VHS)

Sample 07: Sony SLV-740HF (VHS)

Sample 08: Admiral JSJ20455 (Auto Enhance on) (VHS)

Sample 09: Toshiba M745 (VHS)

Sample 10: Panasonic PV-V4611 (VHS)

[ronnylov]

Maybe I should exchange my JVC SVHS to a Panasonic SVHS then...
Which one did you like best BrainStorm69?

[BrainStorm69]

Maybe I should exchange my JVC SVHS to a Panasonic SVHS then...
Which one did you like best BrainStorm69?

Personally, when the source tape is good, I like the Panasonic PV-VS4820 the best. But I still need my JVC for those times when the source tape isn't good. However, one thing about the Panasonic -- I think other vcrs I have do a better job of recording than it does. But I haven't done a thorough job of testing that yet.

[lordsmurf]

I wished I'd have seen this when first posted. Those "sharper" images from Panasonic VHS are fake. The sharpening, I mean. It's bringing out noise along with the "sharp" being added to the image. Yes, added. The others are all showing original signals. The Admiral you picked up ... it'll do the same thing with the Auto Enhance on. It just adds grain and noise. My friend's Panasonic does not do that. I need to see which model he has.

The Panasonic SVHS may be true sharpness. But what's that thing run? $2000 or so? And it's still picking up grain noise. Either that, or adding it. I'm also curious why they're so much darker.

Some of those have some pretty bad chroma noise too, especially the last image. Yuck. Toshiba is other one. Power issues or dirty heads.

The Mitsubishi and JVC are picking up the cleanest, truest signals.

This is just my analysis.

Tests like this are interesting and fun.

Is the JVC TBC on? Does not look like it.

[BrainStorm69]

I would agree that the "sharper" images from the Panasonic VHS are at the expense of a lot of graininess. I would be interested in knowing what model your friend has if it's better.

Neither of the Panasonic S-VHS machines are one of the absurdly expensive ones. In fact, I got the PV-VS4820 on ebay for $20. One of those lucky deals where it wasn't mentioned that it was S-VHS, but I knew that it was. I don't know why they are darker than the others.

I do like the signal that the Mitsubishi puts out, but it's not as clear as the Panasonics or the JVC. The JVC puts out a signal with too much contrast and the picture is a bit overly warm, IMO. BTW, the JVC had both the TBC/DNR and R3 edge correction on.

I agree that this sort of stuff is fun But I was really hoping to get more feedback, especially before I posted which image came from which VCR, which sometimes has a tendency to color opinions a bit.

[fmctm1sw]

I like these as well. I wonder if anyone could agree on exactly what kind of picture would do a screen cap comparison justice.

[lordsmurf]

Just FYI .. I know BrainStorm knows this .. these VCRs are all the best of the best. Like rating her a "9" or a "10" ... all the 1-8's are long gone.

[BrainStorm69]

Just FYI, I do have two more VCRs on the way for testing. A brand new Toshiba M-784 (basically their older top-of the line 6-head vcr which includes DNR) and a used, but allegedly in mint condition, JVC HR-S7600U (which of course has a Digipure Technology with a 2mb frame buffer, DNR, and TBC).

I wasn't going to buy any more vcrs, but these were such good deals that I couldn't pass them up. I won't be able to test them until I get back from vacation.

Anyway, for those that care, I will post caps from these vcrs at a later date.

[gshelley61]

I like these as well. I wonder if anyone could agree on exactly what kind of picture would do a screen cap comparison justice.

How about SMPTE color bar and resolution test patterns? They are available on DVD... or maybe the THX video test patterns on some commercial DVD's. I ripped and copied those THX patterns to a DVD-R for convenient testing and adjustment purposes:

[BrainStorm69]

@gshelley61 - nice snag of that HR-S7800U a couple of weeks ago on ebay! Great deal! Wish I'd seen that one myself.

Luckily, I got just as good a deal on the HR-S7600U I just bought.

[BrainStorm69]

How about SMPTE color bar and resolution test patterns? They are available on DVD... or maybe the THX video test patterns on some commercial DVD's. I ripped and copied those THX patterns to a DVD-R for convenient testing and adjustment purposes:

What commercial DVDs have that on them? Seems like a good idea. I've been considering getting Digital Video Essentials, but $25 seems a bit steep.

[proxyx99]

How about SMPTE color bar and resolution test patterns? They are available on DVD... or maybe the THX video test patterns on some commercial DVD's. I ripped and copied those THX patterns to a DVD-R for convenient testing and adjustment purposes:

The idea is good but this particular pattern is only good for adjusting convergence. There are better ones that target specific luminance/chrominance/sharpness/noise issues. Picture geometry plus convergence does not apply to testing VCR's as done here.

PS. 25 bucks for an insight into what you really have is not much. It's cheaper then guessing (...and possibly repeating the same mistake).

[gshelley61]

How about SMPTE color bar and resolution test patterns? They are available on DVD... or maybe the THX video test patterns on some commercial DVD's. I ripped and copied those THX patterns to a DVD-R for convenient testing and adjustment purposes:

What commercial DVDs have that on them? Seems like a good idea. I've been considering getting Digital Video Essentials, but $25 seems a bit steep.

eBay $19.95 lots of different test patterns on a DVD

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=21166&item=3826787980&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[vhelp]

@ gshelley61 (or others) ..

which DVD have these test patters ??

I have plenty DVDs in my collection :P

Also, how (or what is) the best way of obtaining these test patterns for testing
output quality from our VCR's ??

For me, I would do two tests..
* one for Standard recorded in SP mode, play tapes (commericial movies for instance) and
* one for S-VHS tapes, recorded in SP mode.

This way, we have two options of quality. That is, if that even matters. Though
probably not.
For me, it would probably be Standard tapes like commercial movies that
I have a collection of. Anyways.

What might throw off the quality a bit (or taint) is the DVD player that one
uses to record from, onto their vcrs. Mine for instance, is the:

* JVC S-VHS HR-S3910U (w/ S-Video in/out) :P
... (I recorded the first Star Trek Enterprise on this machine when I first got it
... on a S-VHS tape in SP mode (of course) ) Anyways.

Also, if we're gona do tests, it should be the same commercial movie. I do
not thing a recorded tv show or what-have-you would do, as one source
varies from user to user, Cable to Cable, Antenna to Antenna, etc etc.

My favorite one that I use often is Blue Steal (w/ Martin Lawrence)
Only because they "Digitally Mastered" it. Gosh, I wish they did this w/ my
Lord of the Rings tapes - - but its transfered in standard mode. Anyways.

Good thread (yes, I've ben following through, but I don't post much these
days in any forums that I'm reg'd with)

-vhelp 2560

[gshelley61]

@gshelley61 - nice snag of that HR-S7800U a couple of weeks ago on ebay! Great deal! Wish I'd seen that one myself.

Luckily, I got just as good a deal on the HR-S7600U I just bought.

Yeah, I've lucked into some great deals by keeping an eye open on eBay. My all time best was picking up a JVC SR-W5U (very high end W-VHS VCR that was over $5K new) for less than $150. Unbelievable! This thing smokes the 7800 I just got. The most stable, clearest VHS playback I've ever seen. And it can record analog 1920x1080i component YPbPr HDTV signals... as well as VHS, S-VHS, and SD (640x480i) formats. A very cool machine that is not made anymore. The W-VHS tape format unfortunately never caught on, except a little bit in the medical imaging field.

[BrainStorm69]

Wow! Sounds like a an unbelievable deal! Well, when I get home from vacation tonight, I'll have a brand new Toshiba M784 and the 7600 waiting for me. Time for a little more testing!

[gshelley61]

Yeah, I've been on a hardware video processor testing kick for a couple of weeks myself... I'm looking to find decent color correction and detail/sharpness enhancers that really work without mucking up the signal too much. I've got four different units here already, with four or five more on the way. All eBay deals, of course...

Hey, vhelp... sorry I didn't notice that question earlier about the THX patterns on commercial DVD's. Monsters Inc., Ice Age, Star Wars Episode II... I think most of the THX certified DVD's have them. There are a few simple test patterns that are quite helpful setting up your brightness, contrast, sharpness, saturation and hue for DVD playback.

[BrainStorm69]

OK, here are the last two screen caps...for now

The first is from the JVC HR-S7600U I just picked up on ebay, and the second is from a brand new Toshiba M-784 that I also got on ebay.

I'm pretty impressed by the Toshiba. It has DNR that really helps clean up any "chroma" noise.

JVC HR-S7600U



Toshiba M-784

[FulciLives]

Well I managed to miss this thread until now but I've said it before and I'll say it again ... TOSHIBA used to make the best VHS VCRs!

At one time I had something like 5 or 6 Toshiba M-754 models. Just regular VHS and no DNR but 6-Head Hi-Fi Stereo units.

All but 2 are dead now but I still use one for doing captures ... it is my preferred VCR for doing VHS to DVD conversion.

I even have an 8-Head Hi-Fi Stereo Toshiba but they haven't made those for ages and ages (it is multi-system PAL/NTSC/SECAM).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BrainStorm69]

FulciLives,

Both Toshibas I have at the moment (M-745 and M-784) have six heads. I'm also very impressed by the build quality of these older Toshibas. The inside of the M-745 has a lot more metal in it then most. I haven't cracked the case of the M-784 yet, but it seems solid and is heavy, unlike most everything else built in the last few years.

[FulciLives]

FulciLives,

Both Toshibas I have at the moment (M-745 and M-784) have six heads. I'm also very impressed by the build quality of these older Toshibas. The inside of the M-745 has a lot more metal in it then most. I haven't cracked the case of the M-784 yet, but it seems solid and is heavy, unlike most everything else built in the last few years.

It is a real shame that now (at least in the USA) Toshiba only makes combo VHS VCR/DVD player units.

Somehow I can't imagine the quality being as good ... plus these units are 4-Head units only.

I'm glad that mine still work I will tell you that!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[proxyx99]

Brainstorm,
I think that this may help you in your future testing: Ulead VS8 (maybe earlier ver. as well...?) has a 10 sec. test AVI clip "built in" (V14.avi). Having a pristine (it apears to be that) source that has all the features suitable for testing may be of some real value. I include a frame shot (btw. this is by far most freq. used test pattern in Europe). No other single test pattern has all these features.