Japan, US Firms Team Up to Make Next-Gen DVDs Harder to Copy

[pchan]

July 15, 2004 (TOKYO) -- Eight major consumer electronics, information technology and film companies from Japan and the United States have agreed to develop a standard copy protection technology for next-generation DVDs that will be tougher to circumvent.

The eight firms are Toshiba Corp, Sony Corp, Matsushita Electric Industrial Co Ltd, Microsoft Corp, IBM Corp, Intel Corp, Walt Disney Co and Warner Brothers Entertainment Inc. They plan to start licensing the technology this year.

The technique will feature an encryption using a 128-bit key. More than three times longer than the encryption key used in current DVD copy protection technology, the new method is touted as virtually impossible for lone bootleggers to crack because it would take a personal computer 10,000 times 1 trillion years to decipher it.

The HD DVD format pushed by Toshiba and NEC Corp as well as the Blu-ray Disc format promoted by Sony and Matsushita are currently vying to become the next-generation DVD standard. Despite their differences, both parties have agreed to support the new copy protection technology.

Illegal copying of DVD software is a major problem for film and electrical machinery companies. One estimate even suggests that around 30% of the DVD software currently on the market consists of illegal copies.

Portions of the specifications for the current DVD format will have to be modified to accommodate the new copy protection technology.

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/wcs/leaf/CID/onair/asabt/news/320070

[mysticgohan17]

If it'd take 10,000 times 1 trillion years to crack, how long will it take them to code and implement it in HD-DVD releases?


....


Exactly. Licensing technology they have yet to create. How optimistic. I'll be sure to do the same for time travel.

[pchan]

I bet they were having the same thought when they were formulating the DVD encryption scheme and carve the globe into 5 zones.

[d_unbeliever]

anything sofware encrypting people can do, hackers and crackers can undo...they are all human. and i believe hackers and crackers out there are way more brilliant and resourceful than those legit software encrypting people...

they encrypt, smarter people decrypt...always the trend.

[Skynet107]

128 bit encryption has never been broken and probably never will be. You HAVE to have the key or no dice. The problem is, for example an encrypted file can only be opened with correct key but if you don't have the key, forget it. BUT when you play the DVD the key is used to decrypt and play it. Because of this, the encryption method can be reverse engineered and circumvented.

If it can be viewed and heard it can be copied.

[§kipTracer65]

if it cant be broken, people with will just turn to warze sites to get a key in the same way they would for software keys, keys will end up being released by they groups in the same way dvd screeners end up in the hands of pirates, problem is they might do some browsing while theyre there and find more goodies besides what they were looking for,

[d_unbeliever]

128bit

[vitualis]

I believe that I have stated this numerous times...

It doesn't matter if the HD-DVD uses a million bit key.

THINK about what you get...

On the disc you have the ciphertext + a KNOWN algorithm.

On the player OR disc, you have a known working key.

This means that you already have EVERYTHING required to decode the ciphertext (i.e., encrypted video).

The only thing protecting the ciphertext is obsfucation of the key (e.g., hiding it in a part of the disc that can "only" be read by the drive and doesn't get passed on to the IDE interface or burying the key in firmware, etc.

This is a lot easier to get past than decrypting a 128-bit key. The fact that they are even saying this simply belies ingnorance of basic theory... not surprising for the PR merchants who are actually running the show.

Regards.

[raffie]

^^^^ this is very true, plus it'll take a few years (say 4-5 years) for blu-ray or HD-DVD to replace DVD. In 5 years PC's will be a LOT faster (just think of the PC you had 5 years ago ), I just don't think you can predict what computers will or won't be able to do in 5 years time!

raffie

[kamuixtv]

Teaming up? May I suggest they use blu-ray for video recording (not authoring)/data storage (since they started it already) while HD-DVD mainly use for the movie industry so it means there will be no HD-DVD burners available to the public. But on second thought if this will be possible, you can record your HD-DVD movies on blu-ray then someone sell it for $1 on streets.

[pchan]

There will always be measure and counter measure, just like a cat and mouse game. That's what keep lifes going...

[ViRaL1]

Was DVD-Video actuallly CRACKED?

Also, (Vitualis) when you mention the IDE interface...are there any computer compatible readers yet, or are there any plans for such?

[BJ_M]

i kinda have a hunch that since intel is in this (and microsoft) , that there will be a hardware block on copying -- i.e. the ide/scsi buss gets blocked or along those lines .. of course - as mentioned , if you can play it, you can capture it and capturing HD is getting easier (non sat) and cheaper.. and most existing HD capture cards do not have any HDCP or such in them (some do) .. there are more than a few for both the pc and mac for under 1000$ now (only 2 years ago were over 15-20,000$) ..

because you can play it on one machine and capture it basicly almost perfectly on another (very little loss of quality) - the whole thing seems kinda pointless if anyone can afford the right parts ..

most existing HD capture cards have a SDI input, and most HD players coming out will have dvi HDCP (i suspect) , if they have that and that requires handshaking , it will be tough to copy .. but if only just one player has rgb outputs or if a PC DVD-HD player is made .. the show is over as you can pick up a RGB to SDI convertor pretty cheap , some capture cards have rgb/YUV already (HD) ..

of course all this makes existing blu-ray players now sold totally useless .. which will make a lot of happy owners.

[BobV]

Aren’t they going to be disappointed when they don't get a big jump in those DVD sales? They act like suddenly I'm going to go out and buy DVDs because I can no longer backup. Crap Gates wants every thing to be a per use charge anyway. Sooner or later the entertainment industry will collapse due to it's own greed because believe it or not I can live just fine without what they are peddling

[Madz]

...it would take a personal computer 10,000 times 1 trillion years to decipher it.

And to think that the Earth is only ~4.5 billion years old!

[djelimon]

If it can be viewed, it can be copied.

If the WIntel guys try to block it, I suspect Macs may become more popular...

[BJ_M]

If it can be viewed, it can be copied.

If the WIntel guys try to block it, I suspect Macs may become more popular...

so how would you copy a HDCP DVI stream ? it isn't possable...

[painkiller]

There are always more solutions to any given problem.
Provided one takes the time to truly analyze the situation at hand.

Ever hear of the SETi screensaver? Other software like it? It's an exercise in writing software to work on sections of the same problem using multiple systems. (Distributed computing)

So. How long would it take to decrypt a 128 key code?

Hhhmph. Team effort ---- indeed.

[MikieV]

If the WIntel guys try to block it, I suspect Macs may become more popular...

As a Mac user - I don't count on it.

Steve Jobs (CEO of Apple and Pixar) was recently quoted with regards to how computers should not have built-in drives that allow pirating the new formats. I assume he would also try to make sure the Mac OS does not support piracy, either - so 3rd-party drives may not have any easy time of it.

This from the guy whose computer company's tagline for their "superdrive" CD/DVD-burner, and iTunes software, was "Rip, Mix, Burn".

He is now seeing the writing on the wall for Pixar's future releases - after "Finding Nemo" set DVD sales records - and doesn't want to help circumvent any of the new protection for commercial releases. Especially since Pixar will be getting a bigger-share of the profits - when their contract with Di$ney expires (or is renewed with more-favorable terms).

Apple is also making money by being the middle-man in online music sales, via their iTunes Music Store. If Apple wants to keep selling music (and, more importantly - iPods), they need to at least act like they are protecting the copyright of the music's owners - or Apple's license to sell the music (and maybe movies, in the future) will not be renewed.

Mike

[chas0039]

I, for one, think HD and Blu-Ray are dead in the water. What the market seems to forget is that demand must come before supply to be a sucess. DVD provided something that VHS did not and still took quite a few years to take off. The HD people think that the consumer is just waiting to junk all their perfectly good copies on DVD to get.....what?? Every time they are asked about what is new, other than slightlly better picture quality they waffle.

I will be quite content with regular DVD for quite some time.

[Nilfennasion]

All they need to do to make consumers turn their heads towards a new format is to make it progressive. Progressive video will be a revolution of similar nature to colour. What's holding up HD-DVD is that they're spending too much time arguing about the unimportant details to realise this.

[Martyn1980]

I personally think this will just be a be a new challenge for the crackers, as long as i can remember , they've always found a way round it.

Plus how many DVD-Writers and Media are they going to sell, if you cant copy Movies, the sales will plummet.

And If Sony feel so strongly about people Copying they're Movies, why sell DVD-Writers and Blank Discs.

[aero]

was the current system reverse engineered and cracked? or was css leaked?
Everything I have read indicates that for legal reasons decss originators claimed it was reverse engineered but that in fact the sheme was simple leaked/stolen, etc. Am I wrong?

Someone mentioned Apple. I can promise you that apple has willingly climbed into bed with the content owners and will do their biding at the snap of a finger. Indeed it is their current business philiosphy.

[Marvingj]

I already know how to crack it....with a hammer!

[ViRaL1]

I don't think CSS was "cracked" in the sense that someone broke the encryption altogether. If I heard correctly, it was either one of the software players, or one of the movies that had an unencrypted key. Not completely sure, but the upshot is that something that wasn't supposed to be exposed was left open, and it gave people enough information to start working on other keys or at least a method to find the keys based on what they already knew. I'm sure I don't have the whole story, someone point me in the right direction if you don't mind please.

EDIT: found an article. Can't say how vaild, but it seems legit.

http://www.tbtf.com/resource/CSS-Leitner.html

[BJ_M]

player key came from the Xing player, the authentication code came from Cinemaster 99 player (part of the source and a beta version uncompleted was on maestro installation cd's) and the CSS code came from Imagination ....

though xing got the brunt of the heat and, though at that time was one of the major software decode/encode companies, got blacklisted by the dvd org pretty well ..

[MeDiCo_BrUjO]

If you build it.... they will come.... and COPY IT!

[Nilfennasion]

The whole debacle started because the DVD Consortium were more or less convinced not to support non-Wintel platforms with playback software. A young programmer who had woken up to how much more stable Linux was essentially decided that he would program something that would allow him to play back his software under Linux without decryption. Hence, DeCSS.

What's most amusing is that shortly after all the court battles and hassles, a company called Sigma Designs announced they would market a Linux player with the approval of the DVD Consortium. Can we say "too little, too late"?

Xing's CSS code, according to the story, was the first one to be discovered. The rest were derived primarily through guesswork. Once the DVD Consortium realised this, they decided that rather than close the gap by creating market disincentives to make copies or decrypt software, they'd make an example out of Xing. In the end, they upset a lot of Xing users by leaving them stuck with a software player that would get progressively less and less useful after 2000 or so. Can we say "bad PR", children?

[d_unbeliever]

what's the use of locking the front door when the back door is widely open

[pchan]

d_unbeliever,
The front door is already guarded by the LAW. Now they are fixing back door. You has joined the forum for 3 months and already stired hell of a dust.