Firmware to upgrade NEC 2500A->2510A DL writer

[Baldrick]

http://www.cdrinfo.com/forum/tm.asp?m=66772&mpage=1
http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=25531

[VinnySem]

Here is a link to The Dangerous Brothers download of the DL firmware:
http://tdb.rpc1.org/#ND2510A

And they told me to get a BenQ. Bah! :P

[VinnySem]

Here is DVDInfoPro:

damn picture wouldn't post

[code65536]

Here is DVDInfoPro:

damn picture wouldn't post

A lot of screenshots from Nero InfoTool & DIP have been posted already on multiple forums... not really much of a need for another...

[NightWing]

But how to test with no DL media?

[code65536]

But how to test with no DL media?

You got it! That's the catch! This is why TDB, myself, and other people have been saying that there really is no point right now. It's most likely an un-final test/experimental firmware, and with no DL media, there really isn't a point unless you want to do it just for the sake of messing around.

[NightWing]

Tnks Baldrick! For the links made very intersting reading.

Same reason I went to Frys and grabed a new Pioneer. My beloved Sony 500a dies yesterday after upgrading to burn 4x disk. It ok as a reader now but has seen its last disk to burn. Wont even get into the 160gb WD that lossed a partion problem! I do have 2year warrenty on it but it worth more for me to keep it intact.

Will wait untill the 2nd gen of DL drives. After reading the links most have come to the same conclusion. No media = no test. And why muck up something already working.

I do like the news about it may be a firmware update but still will wait untill 2nd gen around xmas to come out.

Going to be an intersting summer!

[VinnySem]

The dual layer FW also sets the drive to RPC1 and removes the rip speed lock.

[code65536]

The dual layer FW also sets the drive to RPC1 and removes the rip speed lock.

Only if you get the *patched* 2510 FW. A patched 2500 FW removes the same restrictions. Actually, because much more work has been done by the patching community on tweaking the write strategy tables in the 2500, you'll be much better off getting Herrie's (not TDB's--TDB doesn't do strat work) 2500 patched firmware than getting the 2510 patched firmware.

Advantages of patched 2500 over patched 2510
* Added bitsetting support
* Can burn media at 8x
* Improved write strats

Advantages of 2510 over 2500
* Ability to burn fabled non-existant media

For the moment, I say that this ain't a tough choice. (Or get a LiteOn... you can get the DL "upgrade" without having to sacrifice bitsetting!)

[Vanderlow]

Or better yet get a BenW 822 for under $90 and get offically DL support with better and more media + burning then the Lite-on and others and the next version of CDSpeed will support the DW822A in the reporting of Pi/Po and jitter errors.

[RAAGAAman]

Before you take the plunge you might want to read the post.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/9714

NEC says do not apply the patch. MFG adjustements are needed to make the drive truly a DL drive.

RG

[Alnath]

Before you take the plunge you might want to read the post.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/9714

NEC says do not apply the patch. MFG adjustements are needed to make the drive truly a DL drive.

RG

http://forum.rpc1.org/viewtopic.php?t=25904&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

[RAAGAAman]

Alnath,
So what does this mean? One person was able to burn a disk so everyone should be able to do the FW upgrade. Also, it indicates 35 people did a DL+R9 write and 71% had no issues. You mean there are 35 people out there with DL media. I doubt that since Verbatim has not released the media and the only media available is pre-production. I would wait until the real media is available before I trust some adhock survey. This data does not impress me.


RG

[code65536]

Alnath,
So what does this mean? One person was able to burn a disk so everyone should be able to do the FW upgrade. Also, it indicates 35 people did a DL+R9 write and 71% had no issues. You mean there are 35 people out there with DL media. I doubt that since Verbatim has not released the media and the only media available is pre-production. I would wait until the real media is available before I trust some adhock survey. This data does not impress me.


RG

46 people most certainly did not try DL out. I'm almost certain that almost all of those votes were from people who interpreted that poll question as "how is this firmware working in general?" So you're going to have someone who tried burning SL media with this DL firmware and who voted in that poll.

Right now, the only confirmed successful DL burns of overclocked drives are...
* Herrie (NEC)
* Name not disclosed (NEC & LiteOn)
* Anandtech (LiteOn)
* CDRInfo (NEC & LiteOn)

Not *nearly* enough to make any kind of success rate judgments.

[HideOut]

Im trying to find out if the 2500a NEC CAN or CANNOT do Dual Layer with a patched firmware. Whats the answer???

Thanks for your help.

HideOut

[overloaded_ide]

The answer is no-one will ever know untill DL media is available and cheap enough that people will buy it and take a chance with it.

I mean how many $15 disks do you want to trash playing with firmware that may or may not work, just for testing? And then I am pretty sure we are gonna get back into the old story we still have with DVD R disks, some work some don't with varous players or recorders or software etc...

Heck still alot of people can't get totally reliable results with 4x +r or -R yet and media quality varies day by day even with name brands we used to trust for other media.

So who's to say if the disk don't work if it was bad firmware patch
or bad media anyway???

Are we really ready for a new format? DL??

[HideOut]

Overload, YES we are ready. THink about it, you just rip with DVDycrptor or your favorite ripper and burn the ISO, no more need for DVD2one, DVDShrink or Pinnicle's IC. Its done, that easy. I just ordered one.

What brought this on is Officemax.com in the USA has this very burner (in Mad Dog format) for $49.99 after a mail in rebate. What a bargain!

HideOut

[RottenFoxBreath]

the price of the DL media is still far too expensive,and what happens to these first generation writers when newer generation dvd+DL appears,ver2,G0X,or whatever.
anyways,the stupid slow speeds of DL is enough to put me off just now.
and the final nail is that at the price for the media(especially here in the UK),is that its cheaper to go buy the original movie again,or just live with the single layer stuff just now.

[HideOut]

the prices will drop rapidly soon. Ritek and others have or are starting production. Slow speeds? yes, 40 minutes is slow but remember, there is no reencoding so how long does that take? At least as long...

HideOut

[overloaded_ide]

Overload, YES we are ready. THink about it, you just rip with DVDycrptor or your favorite ripper and burn the ISO, no more need for DVD2one, DVDShrink or Pinnicle's IC. Its done, that easy

Well I do forget some people don't actually make DVDs (ever) they just copy ones that already exist! I create more DVDs than I have ever ripped, so that advantage would not often applie to me with original content. When the time comes that the media is reliable and known to work with the equipment people now own for playback, then I would also be ready as I often have DVDs I would like to make 6gigs but can't. Still not worth the currant price of the disks either for that option.

Still back to my point of $15 a disk, why bother when you are garaunteed a working comercail disk for normally $20 or less if all your doing is making copies

Now if you were making your own original content disks or data disks that would be different, but obviously your not if the main purpose is to avoid DVDshrink! No problem, I backup some of my stuff too, but I would never use a $15 disk for a $20 movie and take a chance of non-compatibility or a total coaster! I suppose there are rare DVDs that might cost alot more, but the average person doesn't buy em often.

Are we really ready for a new format? DL??

Was meant more that we do not have perfect quality single layer disks we can trust to burn and play all the time in all equipment, not are we ready to be lazy and start ripping ISOs and burning

RottenFoxBreath
Yep, I agree and meant the same thing. Plus it is not proven itself to even burn and play properly yet.

the prices will drop rapidly soon. Ritek and others have or are starting production. Slow speeds? yes, 40 minutes is slow but remember, there is no reencoding so how long does that take? At least as long...

Well HideOut, when the prices actually do drop, and of course they will sooner or later just like 4x and 8x have, then that's when most people will start being ready to test stuff and actually use it like DL disks. Only the die hards and those that truely need it for a real purpose will be jumping on the DL band wagon right away. The rest of us are smart enough to wait it out, but some people will need it for a real purpose and won't be able to wait long.
I'm sure it won't take long for DL to drop to $10 a disk, but most people like me will be waiting for $2 or less disks that we know work, not iffy $10 disks. That's when we will be ready

As for your thoughts on 40 minutes. Perhaps instead of thinking on buying $10-$15 disks you should upgrade your system? I can rip/shrink and burn a backup of most comercail DVDs in less that 40 minutes myself!
And remember, you still have ripping time on top of burning time rather you are shrinking or not. The ISO does not magically appear ready to burn, or are you going to burn ISOs DVD to DL on the fly??

My system I use for ripping and burning is only an AMD 1700xp (slightly overclocked), 1 gig ram, several large fast hardrives. Rip shrink 4X burn less than 40 minutes total on the average disk and my geusts and the kids friends don't know the difference between the copy and the master.
Of course myself I do not care about alot of the junk on disks and crunch it as low as posible to make as much room for the movie as possable. On the rare occasion I want to view extras I can always play the original disk if need be. You do still have yours don't you

[HideOut]

well ok, my systems are 1700xp JIUHB @ 2.25ghz on air, Dual 3.06 Xeons with 2GB ram, and dual 2400MPs with 1.5 gig. Its not an issue of power but rather ease. DL will be much more affordable by years end and so far what Ive seen it is compatible. Its not like I blew a huge wad on my DL burner. I got mine for $50 after MIB. I bet you paid that or more for your SL burner...And it happens to do 8x SL of both formats too AND 32x CD-R. I dont have to buy DL media now, I can just wait.

HideOut

[overloaded_ide]

I dont have to buy DL media now, I can just wait.

HUH, are you saying your not ready for DL yet?

I think that was my point to begin with? Firmware update patches are not proven to work because people are not buying the media and burning Dual layer on a regular basis yet. Some day they will, then we will know if it worked, but not today!

Its not an issue of power but rather ease.

Well I agree on that, some, but I think we were talking time not ease and power does make a difference on how long things take sometimes. My point was 5 minutes to make a DL ISO (geussing, never tried) and 40 minutes to burn a Dual layer disk is too long At a total of 45 minutes per disk copy when I can rip/shrink and burn at only 4x in less time!
Ease of use I don't truely agree with, just as hard to make an ISO as it is for me to rip/shrink. Or should I say that the other way and both are just as easy!

Now an exact copy? Well that gets away from shrinking anything and might be nice sometimes if the disks are close to the same price anyway.
As for quality, an exact copy there would be no question of quality differences, but seldom are there any noticable differences in my shrinks. Course I normally kill the extras I don't care about or watch anyway.

I bet you paid that or more for your SL burner...And it happens to do 8x SL of both formats too AND 32x CD-R.

Right now it's all about the disks! Yes of course MONTHS ago I paid more for my burner, I paid 3 times the going price of a DL when I bought my 2x burner years ago too, but that has nothing to do with anything.
I can do everything you can do! When you do get some DL disks then you can do more, but untill then NOT! Also I might be able to upgrade my firmware and do it all then too. But not going to try now since I don't have disks to make it worthwhile anyway. When I buy another drive, I will buy a DL drive, simply because they do everything and don't cost much more.
If DL turns out to be a flop, oh well, we can still do SL just fine, not like we have to choose one or the other, we can do both with the same drive.
But your question to begin with was

Im trying to find out if the 2500a NEC CAN or CANNOT do Dual Layer with a patched firmware. Whats the answer???

And the answer is untill you have the disks to try, no-one can really know!
Any-one buyng a new drive should probably pay the extra $10 if need be and buy a DL drive known to burn great SL disks. Not try to save $10 and upgrade firmware to a hack version to get the DL support. For those of us already owning drives, then we are looking at more than $10, we are looking at total cost of the new drive, so in that case we might want to try the hacks/patches or whatever untill we need new drives for other reasons. But still we only need do that when the disks arrive at a decent price.
I haven't looked at burner prices recently, I am sure they changed by now, but there was only a $10 difference in the SL NEC2500 and the DL NEC 2510, not a hard choice, I would pay the $10 extra. But since I have a 2500 already, then it's not a question of $10, it's the total price which was then $80 (I think), and for that if I had the need for DL I would try firmware patch first. Of course prices probably changed by now, and sales, and rebates, etc...
Like I got Canon printers, $110 after rebate year or 2 ago, but I was ripped off and got back niether rebate! SO I paid about $150 for each printer, still happy though, everywhere else they cost $200 each at the time, and I ran many thousands of prints through just one so far and it still works great! I did 1,000 color flyers in just a couple days around a month ago. Would not have taken that long to just print them, but we did like 400, then needed 200 more, then needed more, till it totalled 1,000! The other printer is at the office and works great, but I don't do alot of printing there. But at home it never stops it seems. Always something to print. And yes, with that much printing I refill my own!

Since I mostly author my own disks, not just copy someone elses work (backups?, I do those sometimes) reliablity and proven performance is the most important, and we do not have that yet in SL media! As long as we have had SL burners and media and still can't know for certian what works and doesn't work day by day, are we Ready to add something else to the mix and wonder about it too? That is the point about are we ready for DL! Not like are we ready for 50 gig disks too just because we would like to have them, are we ready because they can be provided and known to work, and that answer is most likely no for either!

Kinda like MS operating systems! Are we ready for the next level of buggy crap yet? They never fixed WIN 3.1, 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, or even XP yet, so are we ready for more junk with different problems, when the junk we have now has never been fixed properly?

And what about BOB? No not the movie, M$ BOB

[HideOut]

You really fell out of a tree and landed on your head didnt you?

[overloaded_ide]

No, just other problems keeping me stuck in the house, not able to get out right now, since Saterday or so.

I type alittle, jump to another window for a finished search, then type a little more, kinda lost track how much though
Been doing alot of that obviousily

Good news, I "SHOULD" be going out of state tomorrow for maybe a few weeks. Won't be posting for awhile again in other words.