VHS conversion clarification

[Saltydog]

OK, I've read until I'm about ready to puke, and I'm ready to give this whole conversion thing a whirl. The upgrades to my computer are here and the capture card has arrived. However I do have just a few basics to clear up: If I understand this right the limiting path for me will be my VHS source (can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear). So if storage is the issue VCD is the answer since it is very close to VHS wrt 'quality'. Matching the source would probably be SVCD or CVD... each taking slightly more room but adding incremental quality. SVCD will take less space but look better on an HDTV. CVD while needing more space will look better on a regular TV and make the shift to DVD near seamless when I'm ready for that jump. (If at any time you find me sitting on my head pls feel free to say 'stand up'). Question: Can I store CVD on a DVD disk using a DVD writer to take advantage of the greater storage capacity? Or will it not be playable? Is there a guide for this that I missed? Finally, I read a great article on using a DV camcorder for capture. Wish I'd read it last year before I replaced my old VHS-C with a new VHS-C. Anyway, WRT converting VHS that seems like a simplier, but as good as, way to go. Am I missing something? I don't plan on doing much other than convert it and edit out the times I did stuff like leave lens caps on or pictures of the guys my daughters didn't marry! Thanks much.

[FulciLives]

OK, I've read until I'm about ready to puke, and I'm ready to give this whole conversion thing a whirl. The upgrades to my computer are here and the capture card has arrived. However I do have just a few basics to clear up: If I understand this right the limiting path for me will be my VHS source (can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear).

This is true HOWEVER there are various filters you can run the video through that will help make it look better. Most filters will remove some degree of detail but they also remove "video noise" and if you apply just enough (but not too much) then you can make a capture look better than the original VHS. However don't ever expect studio DVD quality from a VHS tape.

So if storage is the issue VCD is the answer since it is very close to VHS wrt 'quality'. Matching the source would probably be SVCD or CVD... each taking slightly more room but adding incremental quality. SVCD will take less space but look better on an HDTV. CVD while needing more space will look better on a regular TV and make the shift to DVD near seamless when I'm ready for that jump. (If at any time you find me sitting on my head pls feel free to say 'stand up').

VCD is simply not enough resolution for VHS and the VCD standard uses such a low bitrate that you will get a very digital crappy looking image to boot.

For VHS Half D1 resolution (352x480 NTSC or 352x576 PAL) is a very good resolution to use. This is what CVD uses and it is also a valid resolution for the DVD format.

However it is my opinion that the bitrate limitation for the CVD format is a bit limiting. Basically you are limited to a video bitrate of about 2500kbps and I feel that Half D1 resolution needs more like 3000kbps to 3500kbps to look really good (it hits the max at around 5000kbps which would be about 115 minutes on a DVD disc with 256kbps AC-3 or MP2 audio).

So Half D1 is a GREAT resolution for VHS but the bitrate for CVD is a bit too low. The solution being Half D1 resolution on a DVD-R/+R disc where you can set your bitrate as high as 8000kbps (although again anything over 5000kbps is overkill for Half D1 resolution).

Question: Can I store CVD on a DVD disk using a DVD writer to take advantage of the greater storage capacity? Or will it not be playable? Is there a guide for this that I missed?

You can make a CVD now and then later extract the audio and video to use on a DVD disc. However the CVD standard calls for 44.1k audio whereas the DVD format calls for 48k audio. chances are though that if you make your CVD now with 48k that it will play back A-OK otherwise you will have to change the audio later for DVD conversion (i.e., resample audio from 44.1k to 48k).

If you really want to make CVD instead of a DVD then I suggest you use the DVD template in TMPGEnc which will give you a DVD compliant video and if you keep the audio at 16-bit 48k Stereo MP2 (224kbps) and keep the video bitrate under 2500kbps then it should be CLOSE enough to CVD standard to work as such BUT also be DVD compliant so you can later extract the audio and video to then burn on a DVD disc. Anyways that was the process that worked for me WAY back before I had a DVD burner.

Finally, I read a great article on using a DV camcorder for capture. Wish I'd read it last year before I replaced my old VHS-C with a new VHS-C. Anyway, WRT converting VHS that seems like a simplier, but as good as, way to go. Am I missing something? I don't plan on doing much other than convert it and edit out the times I did stuff like leave lens caps on or pictures of the guys my daughters didn't marry! Thanks much.

I'm not sure I undestand this part. You said you already got a capture card (or have one comming).

Not sure what you are trying to say here ...

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[holistic]

P a r a g r a p h s - easier to read.


My way

For my VHS tapes I used 352*480 @4500 (1500min/6500max) 2pass VBR with 48kHz audio @192(mp2 as it is a program stream)
Those CD's were done years ago and are stored safely.
Now that I have a DVD burner, I can demux the video/audio. The video is 1/2D1 and valid. The audio can be converted to AC3 quite easily for authoring to DVD.

After experimenting ,I found 20 minutes to be the "sweet spot" for the quality I was after on a 700Mb CD.

try it, you can decide for yourself.

THOUGHTS : With DVD burners so cheap these days, do yourself a favour get one and skip the whole CVD game.
Mind you I do make the occasional miniDVD as my machine and my brothers read them and they are good for 30+ minute clips.

][

[hiptune]

ok Salty Dog,

I would have suggested:

ADVC-100
Pinnacle Studio 8 ot 9
Data Video TBC-1000
tmpgenc encoder
tmpgenc author

This would be the best quality on a nice clean and low budget. Skip the BS and do DVDs. Encode at 8000 CBR for 70 min discs with PCM sound.

Jeff

[Saltydog]

Thanks for the info folks. I guess a good summation is don't be so cheap... buy a DVD burner and go the DVD route at Half D1. I've already downloaded TMPGEnc so I'm OK there, and I my AverMedia AverTV Studio card has arrived. (Wanted the ATI since it seems a pretty easy go with their MMC software but just couldn't land it). So now I start working on DVD burner selection and getting smart of filters. I've read a lot about the TBC/TDCs. Seems like a split decision there. Are they good to have for VHS or a must have? Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
SD

[FulciLives]

Thanks for the info folks. I guess a good summation is don't be so cheap... buy a DVD burner and go the DVD route at Half D1. I've already downloaded TMPGEnc so I'm OK there, and I my AverMedia AverTV Studio card has arrived. (Wanted the ATI since it seems a pretty easy go with their MMC software but just couldn't land it). So now I start working on DVD burner selection and getting smart of filters. I've read a lot about the TBC/TDCs. Seems like a split decision there. Are they good to have for VHS or a must have? Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge.
SD

I have an AverTV Stereo which is almost exactly the same as the AverTV Studio (only difference is mine doesn't have FM radio).

Some things worth noting ...

Capture at 688x480 instead of 720x480 then pad it out to 720x480 using AviSynth (can also be done with just TMPGEnc). This will give you a proper aspect ratio.

You can achieve the same by doing 344x480 and pad it out to 352x480 but I would capture at 688x480 ... padd to 704x480 ... then resize to 352x480 for the final MPEG-2 encode.

As stated Half D1 is more than enough for most VHS sources but Full D1 (which is 720x480 but can also use 704x480) will look ever-so-slightly sharper and might be worth doing if the project isn't too long.

I've had a lot of success using TheFlyDS for capture with this card but other popular capture programs for this card include VirtualVCR and iuVCR

I capture to an AVI file using PICVideo MJPEG on the 19 quality setting along with 16-bit Stereo 48k PCM WAV audio.

If your computer is fast enough and you have the HDD space then you might want to try the HuffyUV codec.

BTW captures with MJPEG and HuffyUV are in the YUYV/YUY2 colorspace but TMPGEnc uses the RGB colorspace. You will find that you will get overall better image quality (in terms of brightness/contrast i.e., black level) using Cinema Craft Encoder because CCE BASIC (which is only $58.00) uses the YUV/YUY2 colorspace.

Good Luck !!!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman