New Interesting Details on the Memorex CMCF1 Issue

[Dampier]

In addition to the response I received from the consumer relations division at Memorex, I received a very interesting personal reply from someone in their technical support group which deserves a full airing here out of fair play. In this new reply, Memorex blames the firmware/manufacturers for poor media quality and also reveals that Ricoh branded media is apparently not made by Ricoh at all but either by CMC or Prodisc (I only mentioned these two manufacturers in my original message to them).

I found the reply to be very detailed, insightful, and sheds some new light on the current state of DVD media.


Dear Mr. Dampier,

Memorex must use different manufacturers for our discs for several: 1)
our market share is so large that no single factory can keep up with our
demands; 2) working with several factories allows us to avoid endemic
manufacturing problems that will afflict any manufacturing process at
some time; 3) multiple factories allows us faster speed to market so
that we can respond to the retailers needs--and we do it faster than any
other brand; and 4) multiple factories allows us the freedom to move
prices lower for our end customers. We generally use only three
factories for our products in order to maintain quality control.
Quality is an interesting issue. Your problem, (except for CMC F1), is
not one of quality but of market dynamics on drives. (The original CMC
discs which were 1X and some 2X were poor quality simply because their
initial runs were a learning experience.)

There is tremendous pressure on drive manufacturers to be the first to
market with the latest drives, and that only means the latest speed to
them. They get to market by limiting testing of media and writing
firmware to only a very few discs, then claiming that the drive is "4X,"
"8X," or "double-layer." They can get away with this because the drives
do work--with a few lab samples unavailable to the consumer for months
to come. They figure they can upgrade firmware later to include more
discs when they become available. The trouble in the past has been that
the first lab samples have all been Japanese brands because the
representatives of the different format camps are all Japanese who have
to write the book specifications. DVD-R and DVD-RAM camps are very
restrictive, and it is difficult getting information and test
specifications on a timely basis. Perhaps because of Philips's
participation in DVD+RW, Ricoh has been very open with specifications;
and the result has been a slow but inexorable swing to DVD+RW by
manufacturers, suppliers, and consumers.

When a latest speed drive was introduced in the past, it could claim the
highest speed with a few, hard-to-find Japanese brands and no others.
When firmware was ready for additional discs, Memorex would release our
discs; but unless the drives' firmware had been updated, the results
could either be poor or a complete failure. Ricoh was the exception
because we worked closely with them from the start, and the first DVD+RW drives included a wider variety of discs to everyone's satisfaction. We reintroduced our own Memorex drives into the market to fight these problems and to force the drive suppliers to include firmware for our discs before the drives hit the market. We test discs and drives
together to make sure they are compatible, and we bring issues directly
to the firmware writers to make sure they keep up with new discs in the
market and issue updates for older drives using newer discs.

The problems you are having are firmware issues. The drives need to
have firmware updates to be able to use the correct amount of laser
power and the right pulse rates to ensure good recordings with a variety
of discs. By the time we got to 8X, we thought we had gotten the
process of drive/firmware/disc release under fairly good control. Now
comes double-layer. Not only are drives in the market with no discs to
follow for at least a couple of months, but every drive in the market
will require software updates to work with any disc because even the few
lab samples available are not working well. Anyone who buys a
double-layer drive for 8.5GB recording is wasting his time right now. A
failed disc costs $10, and it's not only the disc that gets badly burned
in this case. At this point Memorex has decided that double layer is a
trap for consumers, and we will wait until discs truly representative of
actual mass production, not batch lots, are available for testing before
we offer them to the market at a reasonable price. Losing a disc is
frustrating, as you well know; but at $10 a shot, that's almost
criminal.

Customers are having far fewer problems with Memorex discs simply
because of our keeping close tabs on all the drives in the market,
checking firmware, testing discs, and brow-beating drive manufacturers
to keep their firmware updated and available to consumers. We also
force the disc manufacturers to keep on their toes by testing new lots
and rejecting those that fail to work with a majority of drives until
those drives have firmware that includes the new codes. As more
Japanese drives and disc manufacturing moves to Taiwanese manufacturers, the job has become easier because our relationships with them are far better. It may surprise you that the Ricoh discs you enjoy so much are not made by Ricoh but by one of the companies you disdain. It is all an issue of firmware matching disc ID codes, not of actual disc quality any more.

Until double layer, great improvements in compatibility had been made;
and they will continue. Double layer will take longer, but even the
press is encouraging caution with these new drives and media. Double
layer is not ready for prime time yet and won't be until October when
full mass production hits the store shelves. Until then, if you are
having trouble with a Memorex disc, let us know the ID code and the
firmware of the drive. We will put pressure on the drive manufacturer
to issue a fix as soon as possible. A simple reminder of our market
share in the U.S. is usually enough to get them to respond.

---

I have never had a manufacturer write such a detailed and personal reply to a complaint issue, so serious kudos to Memorex for taking the time to provide such. Hopefully, they can help Plextor along so that more of their media will not cause issues with the 708a.

---

Original message....

Memorex has acknowledged an increase in the number of complaints and returns they have received from customers who have had problems with the company's CMC-manufactured DVD-R products. The quality of the media "from one of our producers did not meet Memorex's usual high manufacturing quality standards." Imagine that.

Nothing implies they have canned CMC, but I suspect they have been told to do a better job in the future.

Memorex encourages customers who have burned coasters or had problems with any of their media to visit http://www.memorex.com/products/software/consum.htm and apply for free replacement(s). If you request an unusually large number of pieces, anticipate a request to return the media to Memorex for further review.

The company will gladly replace media, burned or otherwise, so this is another way to avoid any potential 15% restocking fees or reduced refunds for media you burned that the store will not accept back.

The more people who complain about poor quality media, the less of a chance the manufacturer will continue to use that vendor or tolerate sloppy manufacturing.

[ultra911]

do you have a link to this source?

[budz]

The more people who complain about poor quality media, the less of a chance the manufacturer will continue to use that vendor or tolerate sloppy manufacturing.

Easier solution to me is "DON'T BUY MEMOREX PRODUCTS". There DVD MEDIA sucks because it's manufactured by CMC. I only purchased the DVD+R media once and burned 1 coaster. I immediately returned them to COMPUSA and got a full refund. I won't purchase any more MEMOREX DVD MEDIA. Complain all you want to them the bottom line is their DVD media is crappy. I can't see it getting any better.

[bokkasrealm]

Definitely not standing up for Memorex but the last batch of 60 I burned were great. No error's whatsoever. I have heard the Printable DVD-R's on Amazon are terrible though.

After this batch I bought the RICOH/JPN id'd MAXELL media from Office Depot. I pick those up tommorow. I hope those work out well.

[naturalzinc]

yea i complained a while ago about a 25 (CMCs) pk i got @ fry's. they sent me a 25 of RICOHJPN that burned well, but i'll still never buy from them again, because i don't know what im getting til i open it.

[RAAGAAman]

Actually I've had pretty good results with CMC DVD+R and +RW media. Most of this media was HP branded media. I have never used any CMC -R. Memorex has always had crappy media. They take the bottom of the barrell rejects or Grade C media that CMC and others sell for a low price.
That is why you see this junk at Best buy. BTW, don't buy their CDRW media. You might get ten uses out of it and you will need to toss it in the trash.

RG

[fmctm1sw]

The only Memorex disks I've seen here (Japan), have been ricohjpn. Guess I'm "lucky."

[zanos]

What!?! People complaining about CMC media?!? NO WAY!!!!

[Mark_Venture]

Is this media replacement really new?? I mean, the link to that form is a "button" on their tech support page at.... http://www.memorex.com/service_support/techsupport.php

Btw, I was at Compusa last night. They had Memorex 50 pack spindles of the 4x +Rs.... this spindle physically looked like the packs I got a few months ago at Best Buy that turned out to be RICOHJPNR01. They do not look like the spindles that are NOW on the shelf at Best Buy.

I got one spindle, took them home, and the are RICOHJPNR01!!

So if you look, you might still be able to find some.

[Madz]

I just received two 5-packs of jewel-cased Memorex 4x +R that I bought off eBay (under 10 bucks w/ shipping). They're RICOHJPN-R01-02.

[naturalzinc]

It may surprise you that the Ricoh discs you enjoy so much are not made by Ricoh but by one of the companies you disdain. It is all an issue of firmware matching disc ID codes, not of actual disc quality any more.

Looks like u edited this post...so is he saying that RICOHJPN are made by CMC?

so now even the media code does not indicate the real producer of media?

this does not make sense to me! its gonna get real confusing to find good media if this is tru!

[lordsmurf]

That Memorex response is marble-mouthed BS. Translation: "Don't blame us. Blame them. Even though we know CMC sucks, we still use them. Wah wah."

RICOHJPN made by CMC? Bull.

I hate reading long posts like that. The Memorex writer obviously just likes to hear himself talk, see himself write. After you read something like that, you tend to feel raped of your time and overall just plain violated.

[disturbed1]

RicohJPN discs are made in a Ritek factory, using Ricoh's specs, dye, and stampers.

TDK, and Verbatim are made in a CMC plant, but carry the MCC and TTG01 MID's.

Partly what was posted, is some what the truth. But there are 2 spins someone can place on this.

If the media was of any quality, it would work in all drives with great results (Taiyo Yuden).

However, a drive maker can tune a firmware to perform better with lower quality media. Look at Princo with Pioneer drives, and CMC with the NEC 2500. CMC and NEC 2500 produce continued flawless results. But with any of my other 4 brands of burners (Pioneer A05, A03, Toshiba R5112, Panasonic LF-D311), these discs are crap.

Prodisc makes Prodisc media. They don't have the capacity to make different discs. Though, Memorex and Fuji Film do OEM product to Prodisc. This is different than the contract Ricoh has with Ritek, and Verbatim/TDK have with CMC.

Also, in a given plant, each line can produce different grade (quality) discs. The more the OEM/Contract pays, the better the quality of the disc.

What I find funny, is that Memorex openly states that CMC media has problems with some drives, or some drives have problems with that media. Well, switch OEMs. It's just more of that quantity over quality that's popping up everywhere.

Double Layer, is a consumer trap. Some people just have more money than brains