Pioneer A06 burning dual layer

[Baldrick]

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.watch.impress.c...p=ja_en&tt=url

[coyote]

If babelfish translated that correctly (and who knows from the rest of the article) it looks like that after the 2.5 speed dual get released later this quarter - they are hoping to release 16 speed by the end of the year.

I'm definately going to wait to buy one if they are hoping for better speeds by the end of the year. 2.5 speed dual full burn would take about 45 or 50 minutes. I don't mind waiting...but waiting almost an hour for one disc?!?!? not since the days of 2 speed cd burners have I done that.

[MJPollard]

It looks like it was translated into bad Engrish by way of Mars. Is the gist of what they're saying is that dual-layer recording was accomplished with an unmodified Pioneer A06 using a firmware upgrade?

[Tearren]

Same info, in native english...

Pioneer has demonstrated dual layer burning during the CES, the technology exhibition in Las Vegas. The company succeeded recording to two layers DVD-R in October 2003 and now firstly publicly demonstrated the technology. In the booth of the RWPPI (RW Products Promotion Initiative) they wrote 100 MB to each layer. The discs were read back by a normal DVD player.

Intresting however is that the company used a Pioneer A06 burner with only a modified firmware. According to the company only a firmware modification is needed in order to make a DVD-R drive write dual layer discs. The disc was written at 2 speed. The DVD-R dual layer specifications have not yet been passed by the DVD Forum.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8861

It would be so nice if all that was needed would be a firmware update to burn dual layer!

Tearren

[DTSL06]

I wonder if the a05 would work? Very intresting. Might have to buy a a06.

[Faustus]

Wow thanks Pioneer for keeping hope alive. I'll continue to hope for my 411s firmware update at this point.

The only problem I see is this, they are not likely to make firmware updates for "older drives" instead being more concerned with their current product, so I'll continue to wait and see.

[MJPollard]

Same here. I'm not going to hold my breath, either, but it's very interesting news all the same. Even the remote possibility of a firmware upgrade for DL makes me glad I picked up an A06 last year (as if dual format burning wasn't enough).

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[elmotheteapot]

Wow seems interesting, even if they can do it i doubt they will release it, it would kill 107 sales, and 106 drives have stopped or are stopping production soon. Pionneer a business like any other would much rather have us all buy new drives, a discussion like this occurred on a Benq thread surrounding them claiming to do a dual layer burn on a firmware upgrade. I would be dubious if they hadnt done it so publicly.

[paulw]

"even if they can do it i doubt they will release it, it would kill 107 sales,"

Not really. The 107 I assume is based on the 106 but faster so logic follows that the 107 could be flashed for duel layer as well..

[tommyoz]

If it works with a A06 why not with an A07. However, do you really think that Pioneer would release a firmware for Dual Layer burning to the A06 or lower?

[offline]

However, do you really think that Pioneer would release a firmware for Dual Layer burning to the A06 or lower?

If it is possible they would be crazy not to and I'm not just talking
about the avalanche of good will this would create
I'm thinking that a firmware hack / workaround would be
released by somebody else.

[coyote]

Showing my faith in corporate america...oh hell who am I kidding....the corporate world...I wouldn't keep my hopes up for a firmware update available to the public.

Because for one, they wouldn't sell as many newer machines - its great for their popularity but not the bottom line.

And.....it wasn't pioneer but remember when +RW came out....+R came out at a later date. Did anyone ever release a firmware update for the +RW only machines to play +R?

Basically, don't count on big business being kind to the little guy. They will do whatever makes the most money. In fact...thats what they are there for...not to help us...but to make money. Sad but true

[tommyoz]

If it was all just a matter of firmware updates then the A03 would still be selling.

[Jimmykicker]

I'm thinking that a firmware hack / workaround would be
released by somebody else.

Exactly -- so we can all hope for something besides buying a new drive...

[coyote]

We can all hope for the hack. And I do mean ALL. If it is possible to convert a single layer burner into a dual, there shouldn't be anything stopping other single layer burners from performing the same trick

[RAAGAAman]

No way that Pioneer is going to add a feature set to a drive they have shipped 8 to 12 months ago. Can you imagine the customer problems if it did not work. I don't think Pioneer will take that chance. You are looking at a new burner because the optics have to be tuned for the correct write strategy for DL burn in the factory. Maybe A07 will have it or maybe A08.
But one thing for sure, the +R guys will be there first. If you want to have a better shot at a FW upgrade I would by a writer based on Philips Nexperia Chipset. 8X or greater write speed.

RG

[epo]

Optics are tuned for DL reading. Why not writing?
Honestly, when I bought my 104, I expected it to work with DL disks. (Manual says, it works with *all* DVD-R/RW disks). Given todays prices I dont care so much.

Authoring bothers me much more.

[coyote]

to get around customers complaining that their user manuals state all -+r/-+rw discs, I'm sure they will call the new ones +-dlr/+-dlrw.

[Alan69]

Optics will be fine, only problem would be if more power were needed to write the inner layer reliably. Otherwise it's within the normal range of the system. Real problem will be speed since it'll be twice as long.

Next thing to do will be make a precision dual laser diode. Focused through the optics correctly, you could write the inner layer with one and the outer layer with the other. Not needed for reading, but for writing DL it'll let you do both layers at once, may as well since the optics are passing both layers anyway.. The precision diode will be costly at first then go down fast with volume.

Alan

[orbital517]

Of course the company itself won't release any kind of firmware, but with all of the hacked firmware out there (which are quite reliable), it's not going to be anykind of problem finding hackers out there who will release a firmware for people.

[ctech2004]

I see pioneer releasing the firmware just to get a jump on the +R crowd, sony is relasing a drive in June/July

[Vanderlow]

BenQ is releasing one in mid May so they better hurry.

[RabidDog]

AFAIk this was discussed somewhere else and it was not just an 106 with modded firmware. the HARDWARE was modded too. So no hope at all.

[mecg]

I haven't seen anything, anywhere that indicates that the hardware was modified. Everything I've seen indicates that it was done by simply changing the firmware.

[kabanero]

I haven't seen anything, anywhere that indicates that the hardware was modified. Everything I've seen indicates that it was done by simply changing the firmware.

mecg,

Quote from Doom9.org from February 5, 2004:

"According to CDR-Info, Philips will release version 1.9 of the DVD+R specification tomorrow. The specs include dual layer DVD+R discs and increased navigational flexibility. It seems like the DVD+R camp is set on a spring 2004 release date, whereas the DVD-R camp seems to go a little slower. German computer mag c't recently reported in their print editing that the dual layer DVD-R burner shown at CES was in fact not an A06 with only a firmware upgrade, but that the hardware was modified as well. And Pioneer said that neither the A06 nor A07 could be upgraded to dual layer burning capabilities and that only the A09, due for Christmas 2004 would add dual layer DVD-R support, at 1x speed. In the meantime, there will be an A08 burner that burns DVD-Rs at 12x or 16x (the specs are not yet known), since the A09 will handle single layer DVD-Rs at 16x speed."

Here is the link:

http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/Old_news/february04.htm

Look at February 5 news section.

[mecg]

Now I'm lost. Wasn't it Pioneer who said it was just a firmware modification? Where did the German mag get it's information? Understand, I'm not arguing, just trying to sort out fact from fictioin. It's getting like the news (CNN in particular). Rumors are stated as facts. Now, which one's the rumor and which is the fact? I've got a Pioneer 104 and am very happy with it, but if Pioneer has the ability to give the A06 owners DL capability and doesn't, when I do buy a DL burner, it won't be Pioneer. I don't mind companies trying to recapture their design costs and make a few bucks - but corporate greed needs to be kept in check. Yes, of course I know I won't do that by buying a different manufacturer's DVD burner, but at least I'll feel better about it.

[offline]

Wasn't it Pioneer who said it was just a firmware modification?

It was and I have a private email from Pioneer reiterating that.

[RabidDog]

let it be seen!

[aggies11]

Heh. It may or may not have been modified hard-ware.

Even if it was original hardware, the tech demo didn't burn an entire Disc, only a few 100MB, so it's uncertain whether it could do an entire disc.

Regardless of any of the above, Pioneer would never release such a firmware for the device. By the time it would come out, the a06 would be competing with whatever "official" dual layer drives pioneer would be selling. When given the choice between an official 8x DL burner, or the slower 4x A06, most consumers will be going with the newer one. (How many 2x drives are sold now? So pioneer would/is focused on selling their newest drives, and such a firmware would largely only be for people (like me ) who had already purchased an a06. While that is nice, it doesn't make them any more money and in buisness terms that means they won't do it :/

Even if it did work, it would make sense for Pioneer to now (after all the hype has passed) to say that it wasn't an original a06, simply so no one can complain "Why don't you release this firmware then???". Plausible deniability and all that . They got their hype, and now wont have to deal with any bad publicity

Aggies