23.976 fps on standalone dvd player?

[zak_swan]

a guy in these forums wanted to convert a 23.976 fps movie to 29.970 and was strongly advised against doing this by moderators.

i encoded a 23.976 file with CCE it was still 23.976 fps when i went to author it but tmpgenc author said 23.976 fps cannot be used for a standalone player

so what is the best way to get a 23.976 movie working on a standalone?

[adam]

When you encode mpeg2 at 23.976fps you are REQUIRED to apply pulldown flags otherwise it won't be compliant and just about all authoring programs will reject it. TMPGenc has an option to apply pulldown flags while encoding, you can find it on the Video tab under Encode mode. Select 3:2 pulldown while playback.

Since your file is already encoded, you can add the flags via pulldown. I recommend you get the gui. It only accepts elementary streams (m2v not mpg) so if you have an mpg you will have to demultiplex first. Just use pulldown.exe's default settings and it will add the necessary flags, then you can multiplex and author as normal.

BTW all of this is well covered in the DVD encoding guides.

[cplevel42]

23.976 does work in a stand alone DVD player. All of mine anyway.

[SLK001]

23.976 does work in a stand alone DVD player. All of mine anyway.

But not as a DVD. The DVD format requires a display fps of 29.97 (for NTSC). Adam is correct (as is TMPG Author). Apply a 3:2 pulldown.

Also, no authoring program should accept a 23.976fps file with no pulldown flags applied.

[cplevel42]

@SLK001 - Agreed. I forgot about the flag factor.

[zak_swan]

thanks for replies but i'm struggling to understand certain things which more advanced members do.
i understand i have to use 3:2 pulldown but what does it mean and what is a flag?
they are not listed in the glossary
i've been making dvds for a couple of months now and i have advanced pretty well,even if i say so myself lol but is there an idiots guide that explains related words in laymans terms?

[sterno]

i understand i have to use 3:2 pulldown but what does it mean and what is a flag?

The glossary has entries for 2-3 pulldown and telecine, those should give you the basic information on what the pulldown flag actually does.

In this context, "flag" just means a setting in the video stream that tells the player about the video. The pulldown flag says to telecine the video on the fly when it plays, I think the other really common flag is the aspect ratio.

[zak_swan]

I have applied 3:2 pulldown when i encode with CCE but still get this error "the video framerate 23.976 fps cannot be used for a standalone DVD"
what now?

[Hardcoreruss]

Open tmpgenc

Wizard.

Choose dvd ntsc (and whatever aspect ration 4:3 or 16:9)

Tmpgenc should automatically apply the 3:2 pulldown to your file.

Click convert.

There you have it

That works for me did the above this morning on a 23.976 fps file and I burnt it onto a dvd.

[zak_swan]

I'm trying to do it with CCE hardcoreuss

[Hardcoreruss]

Sorry, did not read properly, that is not my field of expertise.

[adam]

Just encode normally in CCE and apply the pulldown flags in pulldown.exe afterwards.

[zak_swan]

pulldown.exe changes my mpg files to .vaf files which i cant use

[zak_swan]

is pulldown.exe the only app to apply flags?
when i choose 3:2 pulldown in CCE and encode why should i have to use another app to apply pulldown?
im thinking of giving this a break and using CCE for 25fps and 29 fps and tmpgenc for 23 fps

[adam]

pulldown.exe changes my mpg files to .vaf files which i cant use

I don't know what you mean by this. The .vaf is just the information file where the data compiled from each pass is stored. You want the mpv file that CCE outputs. That is the video stream. Once encoding is done, you can just delete the .vaf.

Open the .mpv in pulldown.exe (tell it to show all files) and just use its default settings to apply the flags.

Yes later versions of CCE do have built in 3:2 pulldown features, but I have never used them and I have no idea how well they work. Pulldown.exe is foolproof and it always works perfectly. I strongly recommend you use it, it only takes a min or two.

TMPGenc's built in 3:2 pulldown feature is not the best. Some people have reported problems with authoring software rejecting files pulled down via TMPGenc.

Pulldown.exe is the only standalone program I know that can add 3:2 pulldown flags, but I'm not sure what the problem is. Its a very intuitive program to use. Are you using the gui? Its just point and click.

[zak_swan]

thanks for trying to help adam but im going to give up for now.
im using (trying to use) pulldown gui but it says processing please wait and i wait and wait........... and nothing happens so i end task
i must be doing something wrong but dont know what, i can encode 25 fps and 29 fps movies np with CCE but the 23 fps are really pissing me off.
ive tried the CCE sp trial and if i paid nearly $2000 for an app to encode id be very puzzled as to why i would then have to use a freeware app to finish the job!
anyway im going to have a beer now and forget about it cheers anyway

[Faceman101]

giving up isn't going to help.

Encode your 23.976 file with CCE.

Run Pulldown.exe with the GUI.

Click Options, make sure you do not have any options checked that you should not.

Let it run. I forget how long it usually takes, but it isn't exactly quick. A DOS box should appear telling you the progress.

[adam]

Maybe there is conflict with the gui setup and your system. Just try dragging and dropping the .mpv onto the exe file. Give it a while, you will see the Gop #'s increasing. As long as its doing something its working. When its done look on c:\ and there will be an m2v file. That is your final video stream which is ready for multiplexing and/or authoring.

CCE's built in 3:2 pulldown feature should work too. I just recommended pulldown.exe since I know it will work, and have no experience with CCE's version since I use an older version.

[SLK001]

Or, you can open up a COMMAND PROMPT window (DOS box), then type in this:

PULLDOWN MY_23FPS_FILE.M2V MY_29FPS_FILE.M2V -prog_frames p -drop_frame true

Hit return, and it will give you positive feedback as to its progress. You don't have to add the -framerate 29.97 option, because this is the default.

P.S. Use PULLDOWN.EXE v0.99d

[zak_swan]

thanks for replies i will try tomorrow i need a break i've been trying to do this for 3 days!
i was only doing a tiny test and let pulldown.exe run for 10 mins as the file encoded in 1 min i didn't think pulldown was working.
i only know some boxes to check
aspect ratio i put to 16:9
frame rate 23.976
drop frame i haven't a scooby doo
field order likewise
all steam (sic) dunno
each frame maybe progressive?
no pulldown i leave unchecked also not recalculate timecode and no rff

anyway im off to yahoo pool and then golf in morning i might be ready for another go sat afternoon
doing this stuff reminds me of rpg's like zelda u think your stuck and will never get the answer then u realise it was there all along in front of u. (but sometimes the puzzles were bloody irritating and stupid)
anyone for pool? im better at that than this

[adam]

Don't even mess with those settings. Just load the file and hit process.

[zak_swan]

decided to give it a go this morning every time i use gui pulldown it says use target file name without spacebar, the target filename doesn't have a spacebar! grrrrrrr

[Roderz]

It don't accept long file names! (well ones with spaces in)

[zak_swan]

ok quick run down
i use CCE check dvd compliant
input audio from other file (wav made with gold wave)
choose MPEG-2 (PS: video + audio)
check zig zag and progressive frame flag
check 3:2 pulldown detection
then encode
open GUI pulldown
source file and target file same place
press go
dos window appears for half a sec
tempenc author says the video frame rate 23.976 fps cannot be used on standalone
i have tried variations eg not checking 3:2 pulldown on CCE is GUI pulldown meant to change file itself?
anyway time for golf

[gvch]

Why when I convert 23.976fps AVI file in TMPGEnc NTSC DVD the resulting time of M2V file is shorter than the original?

[adam]

zak_swan like I said several times before, pulldown only works on elementary streams not program streams, and CCE's pulldown feature might be the same way.

If you want to encode to an mpg in CCE, then you will have to demultiplex your audio and video and then just load the VIDEO stream only into pulldown, process it, then remultiplex.

I strongly suggest you only encode your video in CCE and use BeSWeet to encode your video. AC3 is best for homemade DVDs and CCE doesn't let you do this. (Oh, but does TMPGenc DVD author support AC3? I don't know)

Once again, an mpg will NOT be accepted by pulldown, only an mpv or m2v VIDEO stream.

[zak_swan]

listening to pink floyd having a beer and a spliff
i didn't know pulldown only worked on elementary streams no doubt thats where i have been going wrong.
will try in morning
thanks again for all your help adam
yahoo pool time again

[ONIX252]

would it not be a lot easier if everyone stoped using 23 fps it is really making me sick because all of a sudden i cant convert anything wots wrong with 25 and 29fps never had any prob with those.as it happens i dont have a clue about the posts ive head below!

[zak_swan]

i've applied the pulldown but when i use tmpgenc author it says the video resolution 640 x 272 cannot be used in standalone player and it mentions other resolution problems but i dont know how to change it with CCE i dont see an option for it.
also i cant get CCE to open a mpg file is there a way to change it?
i used tmpgenc to encode a mpg file today and it took 5 and a half hours CCE would of took an hour and a half, so i want to stick with CCE but it just seems a bit more complicated.
i have tried reading the guides for it but they dont seems to touch upon encoding 23 fpm files or mpg ones.
still i know it will be worth the effort in the end

[adam]

ONIX252 do a forum search for NTSCfilm. I have personally explained this at least 50 times on this forum. No, actually encoding to 29.97fps is much more difficult and more importantly it is much lower quality. 23.976fps is by far the preferred method of encoding NTSC material, 29.97fps is inefficient and HARDER to get right.

zak_swan you don't even set the framerate in CCE, so the extent that NTSCfilm material is covered in the CCE guides is irrellavent. If your source is 23.976fps then there is really nothing else you have to do in CCE to get that framerate in your output. Your problem is completely different, but it is definitely covered in the CCE guides linked to on this site.

To both resize the resolution and to load an mpeg file into CCE you will have to frameserve via avisynth, virtualdub, or VFAPI. Just follow the guides.