Foil Labels

[Warbuilder]

Hey again,

On the "Labels Screwing up your DVD's
thread, I remember reading about a poster applying foil labels to their DVD media, and not having any further problems. Having read the whole thread through, I saw that there was no further mention of whether anyone was having or not having problems with these labels. Here are my questions:

1). Who manufactures the foil labels for CD/DVD media?

2). How heavy are thes labels, compared to paper and clear plastic labels?

3). When printed upon, does the ink smudge after drying?

4). Has anyone encountered a problem with diswarpage or any other errors after apply a foil label?

5). Has anyone applied a clear plastic label on top of the foil label? How much mass did it add to the disc? Did this cause problems?

I've been thinking about getting printer that will print directly to printable CD's and DVD's, but withthe mixed messages I've been receiving lately, I'm looking to explore alternatives. Any help any of you can give me in this area would be great.

Thanks all!

Warbuilder

[Bob W]

I have labeled over 300 DVD with paper labels and no problems. Now I print directly with an Epson 900 and never had a smear issue so far.

[Warbuilder]

Hello there,

I'm actually asking about metal foil labels, not paper labels. I'm not at all looking at paper labels.

Thanks for your time and interest.

Warbuilder

[Craig Tucker]

I've been thinking about getting printer that will print directly to printable CD's and DVD's, but withthe mixed messages I've been receiving lately, I'm looking to explore alternatives. Any help any of you can give me in this area would be great.

I have just bought the Epson R200, there are no issues with smearing as far as I am concerned, and the quality of the prints is excellent. The ink may well smear if you get the DVD wet, just as the ink would smear on a paper print, but how many DVD's do you get wet ?. My advise would be to forget labels completely and buy one of these printers.

[SLK001]

I used to use foil labels. They are made by Neato. Once printed, they don't smear. They are very thin, probably about 0.001" thick (but I never measured them). They are lighter than paper labels. I have about 150 pages of "duals" that are just sitting around gathering dust.

[TBoneit]

Craig, Doesn't that printer (R200) need pritable media?

I buy all my media locally, on sale, and have never seen printable media in the stores.

Cheers

[Craig Tucker]

Yes it does need printable media, I buy mine online Ritek G04's. I have always bought my media online as it is considerably cheaper than you can get in the stores here.

[Warbuilder]

Thanks guys.

Well, honestly, doing it direct to disc is a neat idea, but somewhat limiting. It means, ultimately, that I have to stick with printable media, and there isn't much to choose from, jack the price up Canadian equivilants, paying shipping, taxes and whatever...no thanks.

I know some of the professionals around here advocate against labels of anykind (a few rather vehemently), and I can understand why. I also understand you take a risk and often get what you bargain for, but I'm willing to accept that risk.

I'm not made of money, but in which case, you might wonder why I'm jumping into DVD burning. Well... My fiance's system needed an optical reader, after losing the intended one in the mail, and I'm finding that I'm needing the capacities that DVD storage offers. Also, next year I will be getting married, and will be taking the video off the camcorder and onto DVD.

I would like to use labels for the purpose of creating a professional-appearing DVD media product that each of the guests would receive. I've been getting mixed messages about labels and about the R200/300 printers and printable media. Right now, I'm think my best no fuss, no muss option, are the Neato foil labels, as they don't limit the media I can use, and doesn't require a special printer to achieve a good result.

Right now, I'm looking for objections, negative testimonial, warnings and tips, where it concerns the foil labels. You gys mentioned smudging when wet: would the ink smudge if my fingers were sweaty or otherwise not completely dry?

Thanks guys.

Warbuilder

[ny888]

Let me first preface this by saying that I have never had any experience with paper labels on my DVDs or CDs. I used the Casio CW-50 printer in the beginning and now use the Epson R300 with Ritek G04 printables.

As for sending out videos of your wedding, I do video editing as a hobby and I just sent 30 DVDs of my daughters 1st birthday to family and friends. It was certainly more costly for the printable DVDs as well as the ink involved but the fact that more than one person on this forum says the paper labels can peel off under the heat was enough for me not to even try it. I just do not want to be responsible for damaging anyone's player other than my own if the possibility exists, however remote.

Just a thought.

[Warbuilder]

Hey there.

I can't stress this enough: I'm not looking at paper labels, nor will I be looking at paper labels in the future. I have read the forums here and I understand the serious nature of using such labels, and do not want to cause anyone any troubles. I am asking specifically about the metal foil labels, either manufactured by Neato, or some other company, as a possible labeling solution, due to their light weight, slick appearance, and supposed ease of printability. Right now, I'm looking for constructive objections for what not to use the FOIL labels, as I am seriously considering them, for the flexability they offer.

But I do thank you for your time and interest.

Keep it coming guys!

Warbuilder

[ny888]

Warbuilder,

You didn't jump down my throat for not really answering your question. You must be really new around here ! :P

It's nice to see people posting civilly.

[Warbuilder]

Yes, I am new here. No, I don't know you, and I have no reason to judge you. I am not new to the online forum concept, however. Some people have nothing but angst to show for themselves online. I do not.

I'm hoping more can come forward and help me with my questions and concerns, to give me the best information available, to help me make intelligent, informated decisions about DVD media.

Thanks for your time.

Warbuilder

[TBoneit]

Yes it does need printable media, I buy mine online Ritek G04's. I have always bought my media online as it is considerably cheaper than you can get in the stores here.

Yeah it may be cheaper online, But to tell the truth, I hate shopping online... Last time I bought a spindle brand name media at what was at that time a darn good price.... Free shipping only took a little under a month to arrive!@

I've been buying AT around $1 a DISK FOR 4x, Fuji, TDK, Memorex, Imation... Best price locally was ten packs in jewel cases TDK @7.99 4X +R or 2X -R for the ten pack. or 90cents US a disk w/jewel case. And they had nice smmoth tops that worked prety good in the Casio disk printer.

And there is something to be said for the inmstant gratification of paying your money and walking out with the merchandise in your hot gruby little hands

And of course this way I can look at the package and see country of origin too.

Cheers

Going off topic, did the BBC ever start their archive of old shows that I heard they were going to put online for downloading? Thanks

[Warbuilder]

I've been shopping online for a long time now. Granted, that pretty much been exclusively eBay, but that's mostly due to the fact that I lack that all important credit card the defines your access to the world. *spits*

Anything that I need that its possession is vital, I can wait on, especially if the savings are that big. I'd have to see that there's very little that I can say that I needed immediately, and so I wait my wait and save some cash. I don't always save online, but ya live and learn; I get hurried and I don't read as much of the auction information as I should and I end up getting stuck with something that I coudl have waited and paid less for elsewhere.

They put way too many button graphics and discliamer text on those auction...most auctions like that I usually avoid but it was late ya know...

Anyways, still not really getting any yay or nay for foil labels. Am I to assume that by the collective silence, that foil labels are a sound labeling solution, that will cause no problems, so long as its properly applied? No smearing of ink? No warping of the discs? No peeling or tearing of the labels?

I'm waiting for the professionals to tell me that any sort of labeling is a bad idea; I've read it here, and I can understand their position. Like one other poster was essentially saying, "you want a cheap way out, you suffer the consequences." I don't see foil labels as being a "cheap" solution, but its *is* less expensive, and more convenient, than acquiring *good* printable DVD media, and an ink or thermal CDDVD printer to go with it.

I haven't totally made up my mind on the issue, because I really haven't heard much int eh way of feedback from other posters, as to the advantages or disadvantages of going with foil labels. I've got lots of time, so keep feeding me your thoughts and advice!

Warbuilder

[zworg2]

I can't stress this enough: I'm not looking at paper labels, nor will I be looking at paper labels in the future

although i suspect that you arent getting pissed, i would calm down.

although people arent exactly answering the question that you posted and are interested in, i think an intelligent read between the lines should tell you the knid of information you are after.

You asked about Foil labels.

NO-ONE (i think) else has mentioned them at all either +ve or -ve.

Personally i would take this silence to mean that it is a relatively little used product and that you may be taking quite a risk if you go ahead and use them yourself.

If this isnt a one off production run then i would make the investment and obtain printable media and a compatible printer.

Personally i only use a marker pen, as i am merely backing up my collection and the discs appearance is not a concern, i am much more bothered about the appearance of the actual footage.

Zworg2

[SunMaster]

The available of inkjet printable media seems to be exploding. I've had zero problems locating cds or dvds lately (I've switched from paper labels ruining my discs to a canon i965 causing me zero problems).

Printable media is just too good an idea, and they look far better than the poor quality paper labels I used to stick on everything, especially since the canon printers output doesn't look as good on plain paper as the epsons

As for foil labels, I have no idea really, I wouldn't touch a stick on label with a 10 foot pole. I've been able to recover some unreadable data on some of my DVDs. The method I used was to use lukewarm water and "scrub" it off using fingers only, then cleaning the disc surface with some heptane. The fact that unreadable data in some/many cases (but not all) became readable when the label was removed is pretty interesting I think.

[Warbuilder]

Hey again,

I do understand that everyone is trying ot be helpful, as far as they can be given their experiences. I guess it would seem that actual experience with foil labels is limited, because they're more expensive...and if a $0.10 paper label isn't going to work, then no label will ever work, or so that seems to be the message I'm getting.

What are the issues peopel have been having with paper labeling:

- Added mass to DVD making it unreadable in some players (creap crap or otherwise)

- Peeling after extended use, catching inside players and drives, causing damage

- Peeling after extended use, taking foil layer with it, making disc unreadable

- Labels incorrectly applied such that they create an unbalanced CD, with progressive read errors the further out fromt he hub it is read.

What got me interested in the foil labels, was reading one post in another thread: one user reported complete success with those labels and that got me thinking about foil labels as an option maybe not considered.

Foil labels appear to be much light than the paper matte and glossy labels, as well as being thinner and at least not having the tearing issues of some labels (being that they aren't made of organic fibres). I thought this might solve the mass issue, and greatly reduce the imbalance issue; I woudl have to look into the adhesitves of these labels to determine if they are still prone to peal, and if so, are they adhestive enough, still, to take the reflective foil label with it.

Over and over I'm reading, "why take the risk? Buy printable media and save yourself the headache!" My reply to that is, "printable media doesn't appear to be anymore of a sure thing." In another thread in the Media forum, one user is discussing how they're getting a band/smudge across their printable DVD's, using an R300 printer, and they aren't the only one. In another thread, several users talk about how different printable media is producing different results -everything from perfect to streaking and pooling. Keeping this in mind, and reading about all the successes people are having with paper labels on DVD's, I don't think there is a "sure thing" just yet, that is affordable and flexible for most everyone.

No matter what, it seems you take your chances, even withteh best of intentions. After hearing about the banding issue with a printer I was intending to purchase at a later date, I worry, because I don't buy anything retail anymore unless I have to. If I get a new one of those Epson printers off eBay (a place where I can use a money order), and it doesn't print properly, I'm stuck out in the cold, and getting frost-bitten. Right now, to me, it seems that the foil label is the best middle solution available, that few people have tried. If not enough people have tried them and can give me a good report on their strengths and weaknesses, it looks like I'll have to be the one to give it a go and be the one to report back.

The label issue is an interesting one. Nobody seems to have a consistant problem or a definative solution. The combination of players, media and labeling methods all seem to contribute to the problem, and even if/when I go wittheh foil labels, I'm not plannign to offset the cost by purchasing Dollar Store DVD's. If I can secure quality media that properly accepts the foil label, then I'll have successfully satisfied printability without compromising quality or quality media options, and I think the labelers in this community might be interested to hear about that.

My next question: for those of you reporting success with labels of any kind, what is/are your DVD media of choice? And another question: has anyone had any results with flakey DVD media such that, after a label was applied, the data was readable or *more* readable?

Thanks for your time and patience.

Warbuilder

[Craig Tucker]

Just to point out that it is not possible to damage the data layer on a DVD with a label. Unlike CDR's where the data layer is at the top and only protected by a thin coat of laquer, DVDR's data layer is in the centre of the disc, sandwiched between 2, 0.6mm thick layers of polycarbonate.

[offline]

@ WarBuilder

I have used foil labels. They are thinner and much lighter than
paper based alternatives and if carefully applied and stored should last a fair while. I have yet to have any issues.

Although I use a disc printer now, I still use the foil labels for some projects as they look better imho.

@ Craig

many DVD's do you get wet ?.

Sweaty hands? Kids with wet hands ? It happens. Using a generic
hairspray has worked for me. I use a CD case bottom and place
a square of paper towel over the top. The DVD is placed on top and
pressed down so that the spindle hole and sides are in firm contact
with the paper towel. I then spray till DVD is shining wet and let
dry overnight. By morning there is little indication that hair spray
has been used (even the smell is gone) but you can wash the DVD
in hot water without smearing. You can rub the surface with cloth
or your fingers without damage. Only by scratching can you lift the
surface. Of course if your DVD is not fully printable, the ink will bubble
and smear.

[Warbuilder]

I'd heard something from another poster, about using the Krylon clear coat spray and that it dries in a few hours...I'll look at these spray options, though I wish I didn't have to do something so messy to get smudge-free DVD's and CD's.

Oh well...I could just by a R900 and stop my whining. I don't even think the amount I'd ask from the weddings guests for the videos and CD's would hardly cover the cost of the printer alone! I don't beleive in selling bootleg to cover the costs either. So long as the sprays don't leave a permanent smell, run off or residue when the DVD is warm/hot, burn or explode when warm/hot (after application), then it may be an option.

Thanks.

Warbuilder

[SunMaster]

Just to point out that it is not possible to damage the data layer on a DVD with a label. Unlike CDR's where the data layer is at the top and only protected by a thin coat of laquer, DVDR's data layer is in the centre of the disc, sandwiched between 2, 0.6mm thick layers of polycarbonate.

Not to derail this nice thread, and I generally agree with you. But what if applying a labels gets the dvds hotter when you read them. Couldn't the increased temp actually cause damage to the recording layer ? It is my understanding dvdrs are suspectible to temperature. I'm sure its buried in the sticky label thread somewhere - I just don't feel like reading it again

[offline]

I could just by a R900 and stop my whining.

Pigment inks also smear. With the right media, normal dye seems
fine for day to day use. Some people just manhandle DVD's. I have
had DVD's with cracks in the inner center, badly scratched and even
"bent" discs. You can only protect them to a degree.

[Warbuilder]

Anything that I plan to put onto a DVD, that is goign to see heavy I/O or is very important to me, won't be getting a DVD label. For things like the wedding DVD's and CD's and so on, its mostly for show, and I don't expect those discs to be manhandled or worn out, the way some people let their kids at their game CD's...or even themselves.

I've lost data before, and ya get that sinking feeling when you know that time and effort just went down the crapper, but its what you get for being careless and thinking your data will last forever. I lost some CD-R's packed in paper sleeves, by spilling cola on my desk, which got down into one of the drawers and soaked then; I didn't notice that they had gotten toughed, until much later. By thorought soaking the sleeves in water, and using a damp cloth, I was able to recover only three of them, while the other 3 had chunks of the top foil lifted right off, along with the plastic. I was lucky that it wasn't important, but I will never store my media that way again, especially important media.

Ya live and ya learn.

Warbuilder