Panny E-80 Beats The Pio 420/520/ JVC models in Recording

[HoustonGuy]

When the Panny E-80/85 recorded disc is played back on the top Ten DVD Players at secrets -link below- it definitely beats anything out there. The DVD players in the top ten that I have tested are the Panny XP-30/50, RP82 and RP56. Also the new Zenith DVB 318 played back(at 480P) an E-80 recorded disc better than the Pio or JVC models. The problem with Lord Smurf and others is that they play back their recorded discs on very bad PLAYBACK DVD recorders. DVD Recorders do not have the faroudja chip or other advanced chips that make the difference. They do NOT play them back on the best DVD PLAYERS in this link. Therefore their conclusions on the PIO and JVC models are totally erroneous when it comes to video quality on the burned discs.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=...deInt=0&mpeg=0

[steve2713]

UH OH, it might get ugly now, with evidence for the Panasonic fans to back up their views. Just be careful, some people can't handle having their opinions questioned. Yellow cards have been issued and threads have been REMOVED for questioning certain peoples' opinions (OK, maybe only for questioning one specific person's opinions).

Your link has a ton of information to go through, and it's clear they know their stuff and do extensive testing. I'm not sure where to start on that link, there's so much info to sift through , thanks for the great link though.

[steve2713]

Hmm, I've been looking through alot of the reviews on there, I'm certainly feeling envious reading about some of those players in comparison to my current players :P. They don't have any direct bearing on your findings, though. I'm not questioning your views that the Panasonic discs play back 'better' than the Pioneer or JVC discs on QUALITY players, but do you have anything more specific for us to judge your results? Any way that you'd be able to do screen captures from the outputs from any of these better DVD Players for comparison?

Without showing us anything, there's going to be those that call your observations crap. I'm not, It'd just be good to have something tangible to back up what you've observed.

[lordsmurf]

No.

This has already been dismissed as pointless:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=7c30025e3ed648fdc06cf3a3f6180fcd&threadid=512801

Our players are fine.
Also, please actually go in and read the tests. DVD recorders are not being used as the players for tests. Good players are.

Panasonic is dark, is blocky, has gamma/luma errors, and some of them may even alter the image geometry and clarity. No DVD player in the world can fix this kind of foul up.

Plus on the statement of .. "when the Panny E-80/85 recorded disc is played back on the top Ten DVD Players" ... there is zero evidence to back this up, and the idea that any one person has access to or owns all of these is also highly suspect.

And if you have $$$$'s to spend on players, you won't be wasting your time on consumer-level Panasonic crap. You'd be buying something like this:





That's the Pioneer PRV-LX1, about $4000 street price.

Even an E80/E85 is low on the Panasonic foodchain. E100 would be a far better choice if you insist on that brand. Especially given all the E80/85 hard drive failures and other related problems.

[gshelley61]

So many videophile types at avsforum have noticed the Panasonic recordings are lacking... macroblocks, grain, mosquito noise - especially when the recordings are played back on standard DVD players. Sure, they probably look a little better when played back on top quality DVD players, but that proves nothing except that the DVD players mentioned are good units.

[NamPla]

Reviews are a dime a dozen, but when somebody like GShelley actually goes to the trouble of TESTING these various machines, how can you question the results?

I'm definitely not saying the Panasonic is crap, but it just seems obvious from GShelley's tests that the JVC and Pioneer are BETTER... Just as LordSmurf has been saying all along, no?

Can anyone present their own honest test results to this forum which prove otherwise?

[gshelley61]

Trust me when I say this... if the Panasonic recorder had performed better than the JVC and Pioneer units based on my observations, I would have gladly admitted it. I'm just looking for great quality, not trying to prop up one name brand over another. Remember, I have a Panasonic A320 DVD player that I am very happy with and is known to be a top quality 480i (non-progressive) machine.

[Tom Roper]

Reviews are a dime a dozen, but when somebody like GShelley actually goes to the trouble of TESTING these various machines, how can you question the results?

I'm definitely not saying the Panasonic is crap, but it just seems obvious from GShelley's tests that the JVC and Pioneer are BETTER... Just as LordSmurf has been saying all along, no?

Can anyone present their own honest test results to this forum which prove otherwise?

Sure! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=512874&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

[kabanero]

HoustonGuy is famous Panasonic troll on AVS forum.

[zorankarapancev]

Sure! http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=512874&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Thank you for the link Tom! A wonderfully performed test that should be seen by all our members! With my extensive experience with Panasonic E60, I knew that something definitely went wrong with the E55 recordings that gshelley61 showed in his thread.

[lordsmurf]

The test does seem okay, but something about it still doesn't feel right. I'm not sure what it is just yet.

But I will say the "Paint eyedropper" information is entirely inadequate and should mostly be ignored. That much I know for sure.

[ann coates]

Are the people that were originally saying the Panasonic showed a darker pic now agreeing the first test wasn't accurate? This is what it sounds like, just want to be sure. It becomes confusing with all the back and forth tests to know what's accurate now and what isn't.

[lordsmurf]

Are the people that were originally saying the Panasonic showed a darker pic now agreeing the first test wasn't accurate? This is what it sounds like, just want to be sure. It becomes confusing with all the back and forth tests to know what's accurate now and what isn't.

Tom Roper's test is what I'm talking about. I still have no doubt Panasonic is dark, something only confirmed by a test, but something I caught onto long before that.

[gshelley61]

No, the Panasonic recordings are darker than the JVC or Pioneer no matter how you approach it. I applied a different circumstance to the Panasonic (zorankarapancev asked me to) where the source was 7.5 IRE black level instead of 0 IRE and the input setting was left in the default mode. It definitely looked better that way, but was still a little darker than the Pioneer and JVC recordings.

[Tom Roper]

No, the Panasonic recordings are darker than the JVC or Pioneer no matter how you approach it. I applied a different circumstance to the Panasonic (zorankarapancev asked me to) where the source was 7.5 IRE black level instead of 0 IRE and the input setting was left in the default mode. It definitely looked better that way, but was still a little darker than the Pioneer and JVC recordings.

7.5 IRE setup is the correct (S-Vid) playback level for a U.S. spec NTSC calibrated monitor. Since the DVD disk is recorded at IRE 0, adding 7.5 IRE "setup" to the player's output is appropriate. zorankarapancev is correct, and you should be doing this on the JVC and Pioneer as well.

[ann coates]

So many videophile types at avsforum have noticed the Panasonic recordings are lacking... macroblocks, grain, mosquito noise - especially when the recordings are played back on standard DVD players.

When you say this are you referring to Panasonic recordings done at LP mode and higher or does this go for SP mode as well?

I have both the Panasonic E85 and the Pioneer 520 and I honestly can't tell a difference in the recordings between the two recorders. I have played DVD-r's made on both units on about 6 different brands of DVD players. All my recordings are in SP mode and made using component cables. I want to use the best machine for archiving videotape dubs and the other for casual recording of TV shows and what not but I can't decide between them.

Initially I did think the Panasonic recordings looked a bit darker but I've now done a side by side comparison of both I can't tell a difference. So I'm wondering if you're referring only to recordings made at LP mode and above in regards to the Panasonic recordings lacking?

[gshelley61]

Yes, Panasonic recordings over two hours in length is where the differences become noticeable. It also depends on your display. Direct view CRT's are very forgiving and some of these artifacts are not nearly as noticeable on them. Fixed pixel digital displays (DLP, LCD, plasma, etc.) reveal more flaws.

[kabanero]

All my recordings are in SP mode and made using component cables.

ann coates,

As far as I know, Panasonic and Pioneer don't have component inputs for recording.

[ann coates]

Thanks for your response, gshelley.

As far as I know, Panasonic and Pioneer don't have component inputs for recording.

Well, I have them hooked up to my TV with component cables is what I meant.

[kabanero]

Well, I have them hooked up to my TV with component cables is what I meant.

That's more like it.

As far as I know, only one or two Philips models and one new Sony model have component inputs for recording.

[mazinz]

the one thing i can say about the panny decks (considering that i am a owner, dmr-hs2). Is that whatever form of a tbc it has, it destroys the one in the pioneer machine (which suprised me). My friend has one of the pioneer decks and its tbc is absolutely terrible. It blocks out video for a number of seconds, it makes things jumpier (more of robotic motion), etc.

Im still waiting for crappy best buy or one of the other main retailers to get in the infamous JVC recorder so i can buy one that way

ok enough "not really related to the post" bantering---

[steve2713]

It blocks out video for a number of seconds, it makes things jumpier (more of robotic motion), etc.

I've not seen this with my 420, in particular the blackout part. I've read alot about the older Pioneers (510, etc.) being overly sensitive to captures and blacking out too often, but the 220/420/520 have been improved in that regard. I've captured a couple of poor VHS tapes and it had zero blackouts, the only time I saw any blackout was when the VHS was entirely white noise.

[mazinz]

yeah my friends is the 220, and i just could not believe how bad it is. It does it pretty often, even if their is a slight tracking problem it throws the whole machine off. If i would have known it was doing that back when he was able to return it i would have told him to do so. For the most part it does work, but man, is it overly sensitive

[steve2713]

Odd, his 220 MIGHT be defective, The #20 series, from what I've read and what I've seen with mine, are not supposed to have the blackout issues that the older machines had. Maybe it's because the VCR playing it back is to blame, maybe another VCR will have better playback/signal output?

[mazinz]

no idea, i do know he has the "average joe" vcr, and even then its not very good at that. For the most part he is ok with it, but that would drive me insane--

not sure if this helps but he bought his version at a Walmart where i think they had them labeled as 220s

[ejai]

I use component hookups on all my televisions and I've tested recordings using both JVC and Panasonic recorders and the Panasonic picture is more true to the original. The JVC is too soft causing a lost of contrast and color. The Panasonic's contrast is similar to store bought dvds in color depth and contrast.

JVC still has some work to do, along with Panasonic.

[HoustonGuy]

Can you believe that the answers from these JVC and Pio guys never admitted that they used the top players on my link?.It is a laugher. NOT one of them has tested the top players on their burned DVDs. From Panny , JVC or Pio. AS I have . These guys are similar to that real estate guy that sells you the tapes and makes all the money- You make nothing.

[gshelley61]

I play back my burned DVD's on a DVI enabled Bravo D1 connected to a Samsung 46" DLP, a combination known for it's eye-popping image quality... and one that reveals any encoding flaws right away. During the recording process, I use a separate stack of gear that includes a calibrated Sony high resolution 14" monitor designed for broadcast and medical use... again, a very high quality display that reveals encoding flaws if they are there.

Find somewhere else to spew your bullshit, it is not wanted here.

[kabanero]

Can you believe that the answers from these JVC and Pio guys never admitted that they used the top players on my link?.

Hey, mommy boy,

Get the f@#%ing life.