Which is better for capturing Pentium4 or Athlon?

[Ronald_B]

I haven't bought a new computer yet, so I'm trying to figure out if a Pentium 4 is best. I want to capture with the ATI AIW Pro. I figure that the Pentium 4 might be better since finding drivers and encoding software optimized for Pentium 4 would be easier.

I understand that MHz doesn't equal performance, but IMO, many more Pentiums 4's are sold than Athlons so finding encoding software, drivers, etc optimized for the Pentium 4 would be easier.

[spiderman2k1]

I just bought the AMD 1.8 i read this write up about P4 and the new amd's http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1543

Full support for Intel's SSE instructions

I bought this mother board they say it real good and cheep ECS K7S5A there made the via north and south chip in to one chip and brought down the price

[jdgrabb]

If you want to avoid issues in capturing with high end boards that have real-time video options/realtime mpeg encoding/or universal ohci support the way to go is with an intel. Fewer conflicts and more native support for programs like premiere6. If you're a hobbyist that can't get enough of the athlons go ahead, but there may be some extra issues to deal with. In the multimedia production market you don't hardly ever find an athlon. Just the way it is because what the software is geared for. Just my two cents.
Now of course that I have stated my opinion watch the athlon user community flame me for "being a member of the duped intel marketing machine." Ultimately do what you feel comfortable with, but with captured video the intel really does have more to offer.

[snowmoon]

I'm with you. Untill AMD's have are a stable platform ( this includes both chip and shipset ) I'll stick with intel. I don't have any love for intel either, they are just more stable and comaptible overall. The chips are probably as good as Intel at this point, but the chipsets are holding them back.

[Shabubu]

If you want to avoid compatiability issues, and use it for high end post production then unfortunately you'll have to go MAC (look at the sixty minutes thing on Star Wars the Phantom Menace if you don't believe me). But for home use I don't think it matters.

[sesquim]

"look at the sixty minutes thing on Star Wars the Phantom Menace if you don't believe me" what does this mean? that they use MAC to make 60minutes of Star Wars? So if i want a computer that is going to be used for video editing, capturing etc.. MAC is the best for it?

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: sesquim on 2001-10-20 19:08:36 ]</font>

[speedy]

The endless debate over which processor is better is very foolish. All you hear is people expressing OPINIONS, most biased. Nobody has come forth with FACTS. That should tell you something.

Want an analogy? Here's two:

Bayer for over a century has sold more asprin then any other company by huge margins. Heinz likewise has sold far more ketchup than anyone else. While both make good products in the case of the asprin Bayer asprin is chemically salicylic acid, exactly like every generic brand of asprin. Some people continue to buy Bayer even though is costs more, because the company has made them feel their product is somehow better.

Ketchups do vary in thickness, color and flavor. Because Heinz has spents tens of millions of dollars on marketing people were conned into believing their ketchup was somehow "better" than the competition.

Intel has done the same thing. While there are differences between the CPU chip and chipset designs, both are "good" processors, either very capable of doing video work. Personally I rather save the difference in price between a Intel P4 and a AMD Thunderbird and use that money saved towards a better video card, bigger hard drive or more memory.

That "Intel Inside" sticker does jack squat if you end up with a poorer video card, or slower hard drive or less memory, items that WILL have an impact on how long rendering takes which itself is a foolish concern. It takes as long as it takes. Period. Focus on QUALITY, not speed and in the long run you'll be happier with the time spent doing your video projects regardless what processor you use.

[Judge Tracy]

The motherboard chipset can screw you up more than the CPU. I've done work with my DC-30+ using AMD CPUs, but I always stick with intel chips on the motherboard. Ciao!

[tinycorkscrew]

Processor power doesn't matter very much during capture. Who cares if you're using an AMD or a Pentium? The single most important component when capturing is the hard drive. Spend your money on a Seagate SCSI setup or an IDE RAID arrary.

As for encoding, I use a dual AMD system and can do better than realtime in TMPGEnc when encoding VCDs with high quality settings using the standard template.

Encoding is where the processor is important, not capturing. If your first priority is capturing, upgrade your storage. If your first priority is encoding, get a faster processor.

[snowmoon]

Ok.. here we go...

Within the past year or so AMD & VIA ( dominant chipset vendor for Athlons ) have had the following issues. With some simple search tools I was able to dig up these links in under 5 minutes as I'm falling asleep.

ATA100 Drive data corruption: During large transfers the chipset would corrupt data if other things were happening ( nic, video, sound, ... )
And a followup to that. Sound card data starvation leading to crackling and poping with creative labs SBLive cards
http://www.viahardware.com/686b_1.shtm
http://www.viahardware.com/686bfaq.shtm
http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=59509&forum=2

VIA MB habitual problems with ATI AIW capture cards.
http://www.pcphotovideo.com/ati&via.htm
http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=60974&forum=2
http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=50769&forum=2

VIA MB's appear to have an incomplete or buggy ACPI implementation.

VIA problems with Holywood+ decoder cards.

And many more, if you don't believe me, just check this site for the FAQ's. The number and depth you must go to to work around using common hardware and software is amazing.

http://www.viahardware.com

Let's not forget that CCE 2.5 does not fully function on older athlon cores due to the lack of a proper SSE instruction set.

Adobe photoshop is only certified to run on intel.
http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/ab2e.htm


Like I have stated many times. I like the athlons especially the MP and XP variery. The full SSE, hefty 256k cache, and read ahread buffering make it a hell of a chip. But the problems with VIA make me very afraid to try them again and get burned. If you choose to go that route make sure that all of your add-in cards are 100% compatible not only with AMD, but whatever chipset that they use.

Need more info, do your own research.

[Sefy]

Snowmoon, although I agree with you that there have been problems regarding the VIA chipset, don't you think it's only fair to also mention all the problems Intel had with their boards and chipsets ? like recalling the P4 for like 2 or 3 times, and then recalling the i810 several times and then recalling the i815 several times, it's only till NOW they actually have a decent working chipset for the P4 which I believe is the i845 or i850, that's ALOT of revisons!

Now to mention the first P4 had such a hurrible compatiblity, that nearly no Hardware worked on them, GeForce3 was even declared to be incompatible with it when it came out, they had to change the GeForce3 to make it work on a P4 system.

AND lastly, the problem with the Sound Blaster Live, is NOT because of VIA, and that was proven, the problem exists EVEN on an Intel Chipset board and CPU.

AS for Hollywood Plus, I don't know who reported that one, i've had AMD Boards with a VIA chipset since the K6-2 450 and i've had a RealMagic Hollywood Plug Decoder card, and i've had NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER!

So, if you are going to make blames on VIA, also mention the Intel to make it fair, both have had their share of troubles, and to mention only one makes you as BIASED as everyone else here.

[vitualis]

I think it is fair to say that both the P4 and Athlon have had their problems but that both systems can be excellently configured for capturing video.

It is probably also fair to say that you are LESS LIKELY to have problems with chipset compatibility issues with a Intel compared to an AMD system. The REAL importance of this may be questionable but peace of mind can be a factor in choosing a system too.

speedy, good points but once again, you post in a rude and insulting manner. Have you wondered why nobody ever takes you seriously here? BTW, aspirin in a salicylate but NOT salicylic acid.

Regards.

[Sefy]

vitualis, I think people tend to forget problems, that's why no one seems to remember how much problems Intel had releasing the P4, but since AMD is the rival, then whenever they have problems, everyone keeps bringing them up, not even thinking that all their problems if not most, are fixed.

[vitualis]

I mostly agree thus "...real importance might be questionable..."

However, in terms of buying a P4 vs. Athlon system NOW, I would still expect that I would be more likely to have a chipset problem with an Athlon system than with a P4 system (if I have a chipset problem at all).

The current chipset and mobos for P4s are rock solid. I'm sure that the current mobos for the Athlon are very good too... but it's all a matter of degrees.

Regards.

[speedy]

Michael badly needed to pontificate "speedy, good points but once again, you post in a rude and insulting manner. Have you wondered why nobody ever takes you seriously here? BTW, aspirin in a salicylate but NOT salicylic acid."

Actually asprin used as common analgesic is acetylsalicylic acid according to a brief article in Encarta. My first source was Webster's dictionary which states asprin is a white crystalline derivative C9H8O4 of salicylic acid. So much for your nitpicking.

I only mention it here because I've sometimes found YOU to be rude, in fact obnoxious in many of your comments and in my view you come off as overbearing and arrogant. Not admired traits for someone wanting to be a moderator who should always remain unbiased, cool and dispassionate. Since you can't, I never have or could take you seriously. You are way too full of yourself. Time someone told you. You do make me laugh a lot.

[vitualis]

You make me laugh too speedy -- in fact frequently.

I had a really good laugh at you being exposed as a usenet pest especially.

The reason I nitpicked on the aspirin thing was to see if you had actually gone to the trouble to do some research before posting your "analogy"... (like your "tea" post). As others have said, you've got too much time on your hands...

Regards.

_________________
Michael Tam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitualis on 2001-10-21 10:37:32 ]</font>

[Sefy]

vitualis, not to interfere with you and speedy's argument, just wanted to say that, i've got a board that is about 10 months old now (8KTA3) and uses the VIA KT133A chipset, and my board system, even using Windows98SE is Rock Solid, it's nearly active for the entire 10 months online, except for when I had power failures or some smartass hacking up my system (he could have just asked for access instead, geez!) other then those times, since I got this board, I had not had a single BSOD or any other freeze ups.

To the point, it all depends on the manufacturer of the mainboard, if you want a high quality and stable system you GOT to pay more for it, CPU doesn't matter in that account, only the mainboard, and will see how "rock" solid and stable will P4 become using SDRAM now that there will be other mainboards in the market.

[speedy]

Look Michael, it is very easy to understand where I'm coming from. If I find someone acting like an ass, I say so. If or not that applies to you as well as d4n13l I'll let others decide. If others view me that way, that's fine also.

I have no desire to participate in some mindless pissing contest, however I will express my view, even if it annoys you. If you can't handle it, I suggest you count to ten before responding, because for sure I am not afraid to respond like this when you get out of line as you have in this thread.

I expect d4n13l to act like an ass, because anyone viewing his posting history will see he has proven himself to BE an ass since he rarely engages in any serious discussion preferring to play his stupid little games in the no topic forum for his ammusement.

As a moderator I hold you to a higher standard and I would have hoped you would not so easily accept as "fact" some responses taken out of context from years ago in some newsgroup that has nothing to due with this forum. There's two sides to every story. This isn't the place for me to present mine, more so it isn't the place for anyone ESPECIALLY a moderator to engage in mud slinging. You owe me an apology. My guess is your don't have the balls to offer one, because I further guess you don't see what you've said as being improper.

Now if you care to continue our "discussion" begin by explaining what I said in this thread that has your shorts in a bunch. What I have said about P4's and AMD chips has been fair and each time I made a point to say BOTH are good designs. I find it odd that others that take a far more partisan stand have not come under attack by you. Are you really that petty Michael?

[rasch]

Aspirin: A white, crystalline compound, CH3COOC6H4COOH, derived from salicylic acid; Also called acetylsalicylic acid.

In MHO the whole processor compatibility thing is no more than a marketting gimmick these days. Hardware support personnell carry "Our product is not compatable with AMD procs" like some sort of wierd "code-of-honor" or something. Sometimes taking statements to the contrary personal.

What one needs to look at are the facts and then try and leave personal bias on the doorstep, so to speak. NEVER have I EVER seen a processor compatability issue (post K5 proc). ALL of the issues I've ever run into are motherboard chipset limitations and OS limitations (like when Windoze can't deal with IRQ's properly).

I don't care what proc I use. Itell's only failing, in my eyes, is the fact that they have ALWAYS released crappy procs out of the shoot. Sure, they fix them later ... but only after they've sold millions of $$ worth ... and then you have to pay to get the good ones!

AMD HAD compatibility issues with the K5 ... but that was thier "breaking into the market" product ... I hated the K5. Intel has perpetuated that short failing in a sad attempt at keeping market share.

AMD clearly out performs Intel, you can not deny that. Intel has "introduced" this SSE instruction set in order to attempt to do the same ... keep market share. 3DNow, 3DNow+, MMX ... all complete BS. Sure, extra instructions are neat and all ... but if SSE is something that's needed AMD will have it soon too. I'd rather have the performance than some piddly optimization to a little instruction set. Raw CPU power will get more done for you.

As far as the Mac goes: that's software based more than hardware based I think. The Amiga platform has done just as quality stuff as any Mac production I've seen (Babylon 5 was all Amiga!). Just not as much, because Mac has a hold on the graphics market. Most, if not all, graphic related schools use Macs to teach on ... so of course the students are going to use them. I like Macs ... I like Amiga more, but they have a weak support system.

If Intel starts making supperior chips to AMD I'll start using Intel (Watch for Intel's Itanium chip!)

[snowmoon]

Sefy,

Just to correct what you have been saying. The i810, i815, i845, and i850 are more line the diffrences between TNT, TNT2, GeForceMX and GeForce Ultra. They are all targeted to diffrent market segments. Like the nVidia cards they all use suprisingly similar drivers.

I could not find any information on a i810 or i815 recall. The only board that was recalled was the i820 the falled precursor to the i810. The RDRAM and SDRAM memory hub on them might corrupt data if all banks were full.

The P4 + GeForce3 problem was a rumor and a bad one at that. Probably started due to anxious people not correcting their power supply for a system that contained a very poer hungry CPU + GeForce3 + RDRAM. Just like athlons, some intel systems need much beefier PSU if they use power hungy add-on cards.

Speedy,

You just can't leave well enough alone can you.

[jdgrabb]

Okay, I think my point was proven about getting flamed by the AMD enthusiasts
However, moving on...
Look, we got into a back in forth thing about trading insults which seems to me to be off topic. The reality speedy is that you have yet to chose a significant source that I trust that tells me a I can expect an AMD system to run as a professional level editting system. This tells me you weren't looking very hard you were just making an argument for the sake of it, but then you choose to call others unobjective. I and others here have repeatedly backed everything we've said with reason, not with ketchup analogies. Further if you had tried to make your point known you probably could have, you just wanted an argument. Let me illustrate.

If I wanted to prove that there are those that trust AMD systems as much as intels for professional video/multimedia production work I would have gone and backed it up. Like this:

"Dream Machines 2001," Maximum PC, September 2001
They put a dual athlon system in their content creation box.

I literally went to my wife and I's bedroom and went throught he recent magazines stacked next to my bed. Wasn't hard. So there's your evidence. Thats all I ask in the future of you is that you respond to me not with rhetoric but with some facts or souce I can check out too...I'm not gonna change my mind because of your opinion. You have to convince me.

Now, back to the primary point here...
Intel chips have lower failure rates than athlons. They have fewer conflicts with high-end production software and hardware (quick nod to snowmoon here about photoshop 6). And...cost isn't the big issue people want to make it. There is very little difference between a high-end pentium machine and an AMD. Go do the comparisons. Price them out. I usually come within $40 as the difference. Thats from pricewatch.com with all brand name components identical other than ram, board, and cpu. This is why I suggest intel. Now, if that still isn't reason enough for you think about this. I'm a professional media designer. When my capture card is acting up, or my production machine is behaving in a buggy fashion I am in trouble of not meeting deadlines and embarrasing the people I work with. Knowing that fewer problems have been documented on the intel AND that is what other professionals use (and hence there is an ACKNOWLEDGED expectation) that is my choice. I think I've been pretty clear about its a matter of preference that should be determined by the user based on the information available.
So, there I said my piece. Speedy, you sound like a smart guy. Just tone the rhetoric down a notch.

[dfgsd]

If i was getting something it would be an amd chip...i use a duron right now. True via chipsets have some issues with sb lives and such but they claer that up in the newest drivers...adn if that is a big deal check out some other chipsets like the ones by amd or sis, the nvidia based board comes out soon too. I personaly use a via kt266 and find it to be quite fast and very stable. I believe the biggest advantage is price.. the 1800 xp is less than half the price of a 2ghz and about the same performace. if you wanto to save some money and you don't mind putting a little more work into the setup in the system(finding drivers bios updates) go with an amd. but if you don't care about price i guess you can always go with a p4.

Personaly if i where you i would go amd and use the extra cash for a better hard drive system or capture card as these are the biggest factors in capturing

[speedy]

Well it seems I'm still the topic. The fact is several people can't handle the truth. These forums have several prima donnas that got it in their head that their shit don't stink and they think they can blubber whatever crap they want and everyone else should hush. I'm sorry, I don't kiss anybody's ass.

The fact is the Intel camp flames people and so does the AMD camp. If a couple fools would pull their heads out of their ass long enough they would see I haven't flamed anyone, however I have spoke the truth and clearly that is too much for a few to handle.

I don't give a rat's ass what processor, what motherboard or other hardware or software anybody uses. At the same time I will not be quite while a few hot heads spew their biased opinions for the benefit of having their over sized egos stroked.

It isn't my job to provide a "source" you can trust. It isn't my job to do YOUR research. These forums are short on facts and overflowing with biased opinions from people that think they are "expert" which I assure you causes me much amusement as the same handful try so hard to impress us and fall flat on their face in the effort.

I don't rely on half baked magazine articles or the web site of the week. What a few here have convinced me is that they are so set in their ways and so consistently pig-headed in their unbending opinons that any attempt at rational discussion is pointless.

[bbb]

Quite frankly, you guys are insane.

Eat some of your kids' Ritalin, man. It really works!

After Researching For My Next System, My Findings:
If I had the $$$, I'd buy a dual Pentium 4 2 GHz system, not because it's more compatible or stable but because more video and image processing software is optimized for it yielding marginal speed (6%-10%) increase over Athlons.

Since I haven't won the Powerball yet, I will stick with an AMD for my next upgrade because it's $300-$400 cheaper depending if I get a Athlon 1.4 GHz or an Athlon XP 1800 CPU. And according to the reviews, the AthlonXP and the KT266A chipset will provide an impressive, speedy, stable upgrade.

The saved $300-$400 will also come in handy for more Ritalin.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: bbb on 2001-10-21 21:51:12 ]</font>

[JoeBob]

Dude, it doesn't matter. I mean the price difference between the two is the major factor of course, especially if you want to go with Rambus and not DDR. But they're basically the same but different designs. It's esentially comparing apples and oranges, sure apples may cost more (I'm just saying this as an example, I'm not even sure of the price differences between these two fruits) but someone may justify the price difference because they like apples more, will a person who likes apples start eating oranges because an orange liker told them they were cheaper? Of course not. Buy which ever you like better, they both have their perks, yet not one it "better" then the other. Especially for video capturing with isn't very cpu intensive, or even very memory bandwidth damanding either (for those rambus or DDR preachers).

[snowmoon]

My point still apply. As a computer professional, with the computer being my source of income, the nominal price diffrence between an amd and intel system ( over the life of the computer ) is insignifigant vs it's overall stability and compatibility. It also rosent help that ATI are very popular capture cards, but they have had a long and checkerd past with VIA MB's. Sure the CPU's don't account for much of a diffrence capturing, but if you can't use your preferential capture card you have a problem.

If you don't mind tweaking your drivers every time a new 4-in-1 driver pack comes out, or are on a budget go amd. If the stability and compatibility is more important go intel.

I run a PIII on a BX board right now not because it's the fastest thing, but it's rock solid. I would be hard presses to find hardware or software that is incompatible with this system.

Is it just me or does speedy need to come with a warning label? ( note he always has to have the last word because he always believes himself to be correct )

http://groups.google.com/groups?as_epq=William%20Schlake

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: snowmoon on 2001-10-22 00:12:49 ]</font>

[wildcatfan]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
My first source was Webster's dictionary which states asprin is a white crystalline derivative C9H8O4 of salicylic acid. So much for your nitpicking.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Hey speedy....rule numero uno...never use a dictionary as a source in an argument. There is no defining rules a dictionary must use as to what they say words mean. I could easily write a dictionary and call aspirin a synonym for teddy bear and it would be just as correct as webster's or the OED.

[vitualis]

speedy,

I apologies to anybody who has found what I posted in this thread offensive in any way (that includes you speedy).

However, my direct comments to YOU stand. You have frequently been rude, offensive, and completely lacking in any sort of civility in your posts. If you want me to post quotes to illustrate this, I can do it with ease. Even in this thread you have called people foolish, asses, etc..., the list continues. The discovery of your unsavory past isn't really any surprise. Frankly, I have no respect for you.

Perhaps you haven't quite worked out the purpose of a public forum yet? It is for a civilised discussion of facts, opinions and ideas. It is NOT a place for you to post how stupid you think everybody else is. As for your repeated comments on "stroking egos", I don't pretend to know YOUR motivation of posting in these forums, but I detect more than a whiff of HYPOCRISY.

Regards.

[Sefy]

snowmoon, you know me not to say anything without proof, unfortunatly I cannot find the articles are they are already very old, so unfortunatly this time I cannot give proof and only my word.

Now I just want to comment on what you said about "Professionals" as I feel you are somewhat right and wrong there, because Professionals rarely use a PC, like how many movies have you heard about being done on the PC ? Industrial Light and Magic which is among the top rated companies for Computer Graphics effect for the Cinema does NOT use a PC, they use a Mac and a Sun Graphics Station and many other equipment, and not a PC.

I Do not consider ATI cards to be "Professional" capture cards, as they have a long running history of bad drivers and hurrible support, which is not what a "Professional" company would do, and yet you say a Professional would use these cards ? I highly doubt it. a Professional would not use an 80$ card, he would use a 3000$ card.

Each person has their own needs of a PC, for my parents, all the do is Play SolSuite, so I got a whole PC wasted on them mostly, but what they want is to turn on the PC and Play the cards, so the PC for them is great, they don't need anymore then that.

For me, i've got a system which runs Web Server, FTP Server and i'm encoding and ripping and using the web and chatting with people on ICQ, and i'm running 98SE, and i've got PaintShot Pro 7.02 and other gimiks and programs all over the place, and I also do capturing or just viewing TV, and for me the system works great, never had a BSOD since I installed it 10 months ago, the only times I shut the system down is if there is an electricity failure or when I moved back from Australia to Israel and had to pack up the PC.

To the point, you enjoy your PIII PC, it doesn't matter how much money you spend on it, as long as it does what you need it to do, it's the best PC for you, if you can afford to spend money on a P4, be my guest, it's your money not all of us can spend gazzilons on a system upgrade, considering each time Intel makes a new CPU it means a totaly system upgrade yet again, but to be honest with you, everyone keeps mentioning compatibility issues with AMD, and I believe the blame is uncalled for, the only program I had a compatibility problem with was CCE 2.5 and if it was just a great and perfect program, how come there is v2.62 ? because the author ADMITED a bug in his encoding under an AMD cpu, that's not the CPU's fault, that's the PROGRAMMERS fault.

Cut a long story short, compatibility problems are mainly Programmers fault, good or bad, if they take a side, like in the case of TMPGEnc, that's what decides which CPU someone will buy, and personaly, even though TMPGEnc has started supporting P4l only, which i've very disappointed of them, it's their choice, but I can still use the program on my AMD system without a problem.

You cannot blame Hardware on the Software, cause MOST bugs are software issues and NOT hardware, and if there is a fix for the Software, then that also proves it was a software bug.

[speedy]

Seems I really hit a raw nerve. Vitualis, if you truly were "professional" which you obviously are not, you would reserve personal criticism to email or private messages. Instead you continue in personal attacks, my guess is because your ego got deflated.

Snowmoon, you keep blubbering "proof" and all you come up with is years old one-sided fluff that leans towards your narrow opinion.

The words objective and unbiased are foreign to you. I further obseve that people that have some need to keep referring to themsevles as "professional" are really trying to impress themselves, because for sure your rants lack any professional objectivity. One last question, what is a "computer professional" doing slinging mud?

Yes, I post under my REAL name and anyone can see what I've said in newsgroups. Contrast that to some crackpot claiming to be a "computer professional" going by snowmoon. LOL!