VHS footage to MPEG2 bitrates driving me mad??

[franco]

I have tried many different bitrates, 2 pass VBR, different quality settings including master quality, but every MPEG looks the same both when played interlaced in Windows Media player & Real Player or in DVD playing software like WIN DVD which looks good because it is deinterlaced but again shows no improvement in quality with higher bitrates.

Will a difference be apparent with a standalone DVD player and TV monitor when it is not so obvious on a PC??

I am beginning to despair of trying to find any difference in quality. Should I just find the highest bitrate I can fit on a 2 hour DVD-R and go with that. At this rate I should probably look for the lowest bitrate I can find and use that. Even if I fit 3 hours on a DVD-R from VHS source footage it will all look the same

I am using Procoder and am encoding sports footage captured from VHS to AVI. The footage shows plenty of lines when the action speeds up but still has quite a few when there is slow movement..

[indolikaa]

This is a very subjective question. Have you thought about doing some test burns on a -RW disc and seeing what they look like on the TV?

Remember, interlaced material will likely look poor on a PC monitor but should look just fine on a TV...

[The_Doman]

First you should make a DVD and play it on your TV.
The lines you see are definitely interlacing.
And then VHS will never look really good on a PC monitor.

I am using the Procoder also for my VHS conversions and it gives excellent results. I mostly try to fill the whole disk with the highest possible bitrate.
With 2 pass VBR you can indeed get 3 hours of excellent quality on dvd, even with full resolution.

[franco]

Thanks guys. I guess I am assuming wrongly that if I send these discs to other people they may watch them interlaced on their PC. I suppose in 2004 everyone will probably have DVD playing software. I'll do as you said and make a test disc.

By the way is there a big difference in quality between 2 hours and 2.5 hours on a DVD-R disc if the footage comes from VHS??

Also how much room would you leave for authoring if you are just using a few photos and gifs on you menus??

[The_Doman]

Also one thing you surely should do is check if the field order is correct, if not all movement will be distorted!!

You can only see that on a real TV!

[spectroelectro]

As a rule of thumb I never allow more than 90 minutes of MPEG-2 on a DVD-R when the source is VHS. Paradoxically, the lower-quality VHS video demands a higher bitrate than a high-quality source like laserdisc or satellite TV. (In fact since DirectTV uses 480 x 480 you can make do with half the MPEG-2 bitrate when recording direct from DirectTV!)
I've gotten excellent results from VHS transfers using min 2000 av 5000 max 8000. Video noise reduction via VirtualDub often helps a lot when using an older VHS source, as for example my 1978 "Quark" tapes starring Richard Benjamin. VDub temporal smoothing did wonders for those 8 episodes.

[The_Doman]

It depends ofcourse a lot on the Encoder and the quality of the VHS source.
But procoder can do really amazing things. Some really intelligent filltering must be inside there.
But then I use mainly high quality tapes/recordings and the difference with FULL or HALF DVD resolution is clearly visible.

[franco]

Also one thing you surely should do is check if the field order is correct, if not all movement will be distorted!!

You can only see that on a real TV!

Does this mean each TV or player might be different?? I was told that upperfield is standard for DVD??

[The_Doman]

Does this mean each TV or player might be different?? I was told that upperfield is standard for DVD??

No , when you have set the correct fieldorder all players will play it ok.
The important thing is to get the correct field order in the SOURCE.
Only if you working with DV files Procoder will detect it automatically for you (Lower/Bottom field is standard for DV).
The DESTINATION field order does not really matter, but better leave it at default.
But with other sources you really have to test it out to be sure.
A different CODEC or setting in you Capture CARD can make a difference in the field order.