When is it illegal to backup your VHS tapes?

[dvd-dude]

I was just wondering if anyone knew enough about copyright to answer the following questions:

As I understand it you have a right to backup your media - 100% legal (i.e. making a DVDR copy of a VHS you have purchased).

Now here's the thing... if I'm backing up VHS tapes to DVDR I assume I'm expected to keep the VHS tapes on hand. So this means I have to have them sitting in a box downstairs taking up storage space. Is this true? Otherwise couldn't you go to jail (or be fined) for not being able to prove you owned the original? Even so you could get into trouble - perhaps they would accuse you of selling the original and not just throwing it away?

I'm asking these questions because I really would like to throw out all my old VHS tapes. Within the next decade most of them will be worthless anyway (being stored in the basement, being over 10 years old as we speak, etc.). However, I do not want to do anything that would put me at risk for that huge $250,000 fine or jail time the FBI always warns you about at the beginning of movies.

Beyond the ethics of the situation... I'm curious what the odds are of being prosecuted for this crime. Has anybody had to go through the process?

I'm just hoping this discussion will answer some questions of mine as well as spark some healthy debate about the topic. Thanks!

-DVD-Dude

[haloblack]

As I understand it you have a right to backup your media - 100% legal (i.e. making a DVDR copy of a VHS you have purchased).

Maybe yes, maybe no. It's been debated here to death. Do a quick search and you'll see what I mean...

if I'm backing up VHS tapes to DVDR I assume I'm expected to keep the VHS tapes on hand.

My understanding (and I'm sure someone will be along to contradict me in no time) is that the original has to a) accompany the backup (ie: if you sell the original tape, you can't keep the backup) or b) be destroyed. You want my opinion? Copy all your tapes to DVD, trash the originals, and sleep in peace. As long as you aren't selling copies or doing anything unethical, you have nothing to fear from the media police. You may be technically violating some sort of rule somewhere, but I wouldn't worry about it any more than driving 56 in a 55.

Beyond the ethics of the situation... I'm curious what the odds are of being prosecuted for this crime. Has anybody had to go through the process?

Odds? Next to nil. Imagine someone calling the cops and saying "I was at this guy's house watching an old movie on dvd-r, and I didn't see the original vhs cassette *anywhere*! Call out the hounds!" Like I said, as long as it's for 100% personal use, you have zero to fear.

I'm just hoping this discussion will answer some questions of mine as well as spark some healthy debate about the topic.

Healthy debate?

You're new here, aren't you?

[oddbod77]

As I understand it you have a right to backup your media - 100% legal (i.e. making a DVDR copy of a VHS you have purchased).

This is incorrect. Unless you are authorised by the copyright holder to make a copy - even if it is for backup purposes - you are not legally entitled to do so. “Fair use” is not an exemption to copyright law. The concept of “fair use” is a defense, which presumes that an infringement has occurred.

Beyond the ethics of the situation... I'm curious what the odds are of being prosecuted for this crime. Has anybody had to go through the process?

Practically zero, unless you are selling copies then it's not worth anybodys time trying to prosecute you.

Consider the effect of the use on the author’s “potential market.” If you copied a work so that you didn’t have to buy additional copies of the original, or if you did so to avoid having to pay a license fee to the author, it’s unlikely to qualify as fair use and in theory you could be prosecuted.

Yeah ethically and legally speaking its wrong - but is it ethical or necessary to have copyrights that last for a minimum of 95 years?* For that matter is it right to have no simple method of getting the copyright holders permission to make a simple backup?

*For individual authors, a copyright lasts for the person’s lifetime, plus an additional 70 years. For non-persons, the copyright lasts for 95 years from the date of first publication or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter.

[Matteo693]

Mate, everything you DO is illegal! Haven't you heard of the oxygen tax that no-one pays? If "They" wanna bust you, they can just come through your door without any warrant, find some tape cassettes of yours, and throw you in the brig with a quarter-mill bail.

And that's just YOUR part of the world, pal.

I live in Australia. Here it's totally f@cking DRACONIAN.

No joke. I get parcels intercepted all the time, videos like "Tokyo Decadence" and "Zombie Gang Bangers"...ILLEGAL!!! Due to a 1950s law still in existence that sez "anything that is morally abhorrent to a sensible adult person" is BANNED!!! An ambiguous law that is subjectively enforced by a mere handful of schizophrenic yuppies in Sydney.

Other films that are banned here are "Salo"..."Pink Flamingos"...erm "Clockwork Orange" just came out of hiding, conveniently in time for Kubrick's DVD releases!...oy vay, HEAPS more!

How do I defect to Holland, please?

(PS: You donut-eaters in Seppo-Land are lucky. You got the First Amendment & copyright loopholes that put a lot of movies into the public domain, thus enabling small, smart businesses to flourish! Here in Oz, we're still bloody "convicts"!!! EVERYTHING'S BANNED!!!)

Blblblblblbl.....

[haloblack]

I live in Australia. Here it's totally f@cking DRACONIAN.

Yes, but you get Bondi and Foster's.

Wanna trade?

[handyguy]

I think vhs has just as much a chance of being around in 10 years as dvd. I wondered if there would be dvd players in 10 years? Who knows. Vhs does tend to turn to fuzz around 15 years so you might want to copy to another cassette.

Some guy on the net said that if a film isn't copyrighted in the country that it's copied in that is okay. Dunno about that, but he was selling stuff under that impression.

[housepig]

Some guy on the net said that if a film isn't copyrighted in the country that it's copied in that is okay. Dunno about that, but he was selling stuff under that impression.

not unless those countries aren't signatories to the WIPO (World Intellectual Property Organization) and Berne Convention treaties on copyright. If they are, what's copyrighted in one country is copyrighted throughout the convention countries.

And the only ones I know of are Iran and the Palestinian occupied territories.

as far as legal trouble, I'd only be worried about it if you were busted for something else - they got Capone for tax evasion, remember. If you were growing weed in your basement and busted for that, the authorities might add on copyright violation or piracy charges just to add another few years to your jail time...

[andkiich]

Here we go again!