Advice on Building Video Editing System wanted - Low budget

[LivinNsc]

Im a newbie at this and need deatils but in laymans terms. I don't want this to become a Mac -v- PC debate as it seems for low end video editing (menaing not Professional but nice looking - minor bells and whistles) either way would work and I am not against one or the other. I do lean towards PC since this will be my home computer and have VERY little experience with a Mac.

I am looking for something that I can import VHS tapes as well as DVD's and DV Cameras. I want to be able to add audio, transitions, and have some effects to work with but nothing extremely fancy. I want this to be as simple as possible but I am willing to by a base system and install hardrives, and a DVD Burner separately...also more memory. This is not to be a big gaming machine so I am asuming that the video card doesn't have to be top of the line.

I am also willing to buy a monitor separately if needed to save money.

My budget is ONLY $1400 which I know is VERY low for what I am asking but I want to find something that will work for this. This 1400 includes software. I have Adobe Premiere already so if I use a PC I already have that program which does more than enough for what I need. I have also spent a few minutes messing around with Final Cut EXPRESS and it would be great. I am willing to try other programs of lesser quality but don't know what is "worth" it.

This is for a church that will be using it to put together video clips and such used for discussion staters as well as implementing video with some of our drama/musical performances. It will also be used to take video of group trips and edit them on to a DVD to give to those who want them.

I have been recommended to look at refurbished Dells but don't know what things I need to be aware of when looking at older/used models.

ANY and ALL help is GREATLY appreciated. I am sure I have left out some important info so ask away...

[Tommyknocker]

I think you are halfway home. I believe the 2.4 GHz are around $600.00, so you may want to start with one since you can install Adobe Premiere on it, (the program is a "monster"). You are going to be capturing video from your camcorders and burning them to DVD, so two more things you need are a DVD burner and a fire wire card. I also suggest the ADVC-100 hardware encoder, so you record your video onto VHS for the congregation that does not have DVD players. Make sure to maximize your memory, to optimize your computer. That is all I can think of for now. Hope this helps.

[spiderman2k1]

go to www.pricewatch.com and put together your own PC. You will make out very good. Duel CPU's might be some thing you might want to look into ot hypertherding P4's or AMD's new 64but chip. One thing your going to need alot of hard drive space for AVI file's get 7200 rpm or faster.

[Tommyknocker]

He's right. When he says a lot of hard drive space, I hear 80 GB or more per drive. See if you can get two hard drives on your system. One is for system files/programs. and the other is for video only.

[LivinNsc]

Thanx guys! I am hoping to put together a system that has a 60-80 GB HD for everything but video and a 80-120 for video only. I also would like to get a DVD/CD drvie and a DVD Burner. I guess I am asking at where to start...There is so much out there I almost want someone to say this is exactly what you need to start with and then build from there onec you get it. I no absolutely zero when it comes to video cards, capture cards, and how they relate/are supported by other parts of the system.

Do you all think going with a refurbished Dell is a good idea? What specs are crucial that I need to be aware of other than size of memory hard drive and the 2.?? processor... I see numbers for "front side bus" and have no idea what that means and then something like L2 Cache... and am clueless.

[The village idiot]

Here is a site for price comparisons:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=31

The XPC line of machines from Shuttle will work well for what you are doing. I have an older XPC (SS-50) with a P4 2Ghz, and it is just fine for working with DV files, but a bigger processor can't hurt. The only drawback of those machines is that they a small, so you can only get 2 hard drives inside (3 if you use an external burner). You will need a analog to DV converter for the non DV cam video. I always suggest 2 devices for this. Either the Canopus ADVC products (the ADVC 50 or 100), and the Datavideo DAC-100. The DAC is about the same price as the ADVC-50, but has all the same features as the ADVC-100, as far as I know. There is a good comparison between the DAC-100 and the ADVC-100 somewhere in the capturing forum. DAC-100 about $189.00+, ADVC-100 is about $250.00+, you might find better deals, and you mght get a discount because of the affiliation with the church.

If you use 2, 120GB or 160GB drives, that will give you MANY hours of storage for the raw DV files. DV is 13GB per hour, just for a reference point. If you need more storage, you can always get external devices that connect with the firewire port (I'm not a big fan of USB1 or USB2, just an opinion). I wouldn't bother putting a floppy drive on your machine, it will just take up space for a second hard drive.

Then all you need is a good monitor. 17 inch CRT monitors are very cheap now, or go with a nice 17 inch LCD for about 2-3 times more. Also ned the operation system, probably winXP would be the choice. I prefer win2000, but XP is the current OS from Microsoft.

You should get at least 512MB of ram, more would be better. The XPC machines only have 2 memory slots, so make your choices wisely. A single 512MB chipset would be better than 2, 256MB chipsets. The onboard video and audio should be fine for what you will be doing.

This is very similar to what I will be making, pending a final interview for a job, for work with DV video. I'm going to upgrade to a newer XPC, and bring my old one to work. I use a lot of firewire devices, including a CD burner, and hard drive, and analog to DV converter (another thing that will get upgraded, most likely the DAC-100). I also use this machine for photo work with PhotoShop and Acrobat.

Other than that a nice keyboard and mouse/trackball. If you have money and want some editing software that might be easier to use, try Editstudio , they have a 30 day full function demo. Also get the mpegXS encoder. The whole package is around $125.00 USD. You will also want some DVD authoring software. DVD movie factory is simple, with simple looking results. For more complex menus, many here like DVD Lab, or TMPGEnc DVD author, and some other software.

[BJ_M]

dont buy refurbished - just buy a new one , for what you want you could get a dell - i just see this one for example (im sugesting a prebuilt machine instead of building one yourself)

DELL Dimension 4600 Desktop with 2.6Ghz HyperThreaded P4, 512MB DDR SDRAM, 120MB S-ATA HD, DVD-Rom, 64MB Geforce4 MX for $575 plus Shipping!

http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=9eASk0x48lo&subid=1&offerid=34197.1&type=...Dd46fc1&u1=118

To minimize the cost, change to the following options:
2nd bay device: None [subtract $189]
64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4 MX™ Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI [subtract $30]
You can choose whatever upgrades you want, though they may increase the price. Then scroll to the bottom and click on Continue ..
Scroll to the bottom and click on Continue ..
Scroll to the bottom and click on Add to cart ..
Use coupon code: B036FDAB63CA for $25 off a $500+ system purchase. Expires 2/29/04. Finish checking out.

(you can get the above also for $599 with a 15" Flat Panel LCD included)

cheers ..

also - tigerdirect has 4 port 10/100 routers on sale right now for $0.01 (yes 1 cent)
It expires TOMORROW though (10/31/03), so get it fast if you want it. It`s $44.99 - $45 mail in rebate (Expires 10/31/03, 1 per household) = $-0.01 plus shipping http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=408514&sku=...064&bfinfo=118

OfficeDepot has the Maxtor 120GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache Ultra ATA/133 Internal Hard Drive for $59.84! right now untill nov 1 if you want a little more storage
Start by clicking here to get to the coupon page. Enter Code 94097054 for $20 off $100. Expires 11/01/2003 http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/click?id=9eASk0x48lo&subid=1&offerid=27778.1&type=...sp%2520&u1=118

then Add the Maxtor 120GB hard drive to your cart for $129.84
Here is the $20 rebate from Office Depot. Only a copy of the UPC is required. Expires 11/1/03
http://rebates.teg-online.com/officedepot/Rebate_Print.asp?Item_Key=70715
Here is the $30 rebate from Maxtor. Send in the original UPC
http://rebates.teg-online.com/officedepot/Rebate_Print.asp?Item_Key=70721

Meritline has the Plextor PX-708A 8X DVD+RW/R, DVD-RW/R, CD-RW/R Combo Drive, DVD Burner/Writer Retail Box, for $259 ,, good deal ..

they also have ritek on sale
100 Pack Ritek 4X DVD+R Blank Media 4.7GB DVDplusR Discs (DVD Plus R Disc) $1.34 Each. Use coupon: mr10pct for 10% off. Expires 11/03/2003

[The village idiot]

Almost forgot, you will want to download DVio, and amcap. They should link, but they are also available in the tools section of the website. These can be a real problem solver, and both are freeware!

[gmatov]

Livin,

Try this site. I have bought from them, any item didn't work, call, RMA, ship, one time sent a case back Wednesday,replacement on porch Thursday PM.

http://www.microtechcomputers.com/cats.asp?CatID=39

You don't strike me as an assembler, more like an educated( ) user.

These machines come with WinXP, admittedly Home Edition, don't know what they would charge for Pro, but you probably don't need it, unless some of the members know XP and say you do. I don't have either so can't advise.

You will notice the 699 model comes with a DVD-RW and a DVD-ROM as well as a 2600XP rather than the 2400XP. It is complete less the monitor. Has KB, mouse, speakers. I would almost bet the board has everything integrated, but so do most of the OEMs today.

I am sure you can get them to install a second, larger HDD at a reasonable price. I have bought a number of "bare bones" units from them, bought 60 gig drives for say 80 bucks when they were in the stores at over a 100.

Capture cards, you can check the site, they will install.

I would, personally, stay away from the LCD monitors. I don't think the portability is worth the money, nor the space savings. Let us face it, once you have set your monitor, you will rarely move it. CRT monitors are flexible as to the resolution, LCDs are best at their design resolution. They're cute, but not worth the money, IMO.

Cheers,

George

[LivinNsc]

OK... I feel good about this dell system:

Dell Dimension 4600 Series: Pentium® 4 Processor at 2.60GHz w/800MHz front side bus/ HT Technology
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition¹²
Memory: 512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz (2x256M)
Hard Drive: 120GB Serial ATA Hard Drive,7200RPM
Floppy Drive and Additional Storage Devices: 3.5 in Floppy Drive
CD or DVD Drive: 16X DVD ROM Drive
CD or DVD Burner for 2nd bay: 4x DVD+R/+RW Drive(w/16x DVD)
Enhanced Software for CD or DVD Burner: COMPLETE DVD/CD Burning,Copying,Backup-MyDVD Dlx and RecordNow(DVD+RW only)
Keyboard: Dell® Quietkey® Keyboard
Mouse: Dell® 2-button scroll mouse
Bundled Software: Productivity Pack including WordPerfect® and Money®
Security Software: Norton Antivirus® 2003, 90-day introductory offer
Monitor: No Monitor
Video Card: 64MB DDR NVIDIA GeForce4 MX™ Graphics Card with TV-Out and DVI
Sound: Integrated 5.1 Audio with Dolby Digital 5.1 capability
Speakers: Altec Lansing® ADA215 Speakers
Multi-Media Players: RealOne™ Player, with 14 day SuperPass trial
Digital Music: Dell Jukebox powered by MUSICMATCH
Digital Photography: Dell Picture Studio, Image Expert Standard
Modem: 56K PCI Data Fax Modem
Network Card: Integrated Intel® PRO 10/100 Ethernet
High Speed Internet Access: Find a high speed Internet service provider in your area
Internet Access Services: 6 Months of America Online Membership Included
Service: 1 Year Limited Warranty plus 1 Year At-Home Service
Dell Branded Printers: Dell A920 Printer with 1 YR Advanced Exchange
Dell Printer Drivers: A940 All-In-One Inkjet Printer Driver Installed

I can have this system shipped for basically $1000. That would leave me $400 to get a capture card and a monitor...and if enough left over a second hard drive.

The monitor and hard drive are not problems for me... I am clueless when it comes to capture cards. What compatibility issues do I need to consider? Is there a card that will allow me to import video from S-video, RCA, and DV Camera??? In building this system I have the option of including Pinnacle USB MovieBox with Pinnacle 8 for $189. Even though I have Premiere 6.5 would it be worth the 189 to select this???

Can someone recomend a capture card that should be supported by this system?

[dcsos]

S-video, RCA, and DV Camera Capture..
LOOK AT WHAT TOMMYKNOCKER said:

You are going to be capturing video from your camcorders and burning them to DVD, so two more things you need are a DVD burner and a fire wire card. I also suggest the ADVC-100 hardware encoder, so you record your video onto VHS

the advc is a CANOPUS product..If the 1000 is DV only, there's a companion product that does both FIREWIRE and ANALOG capture in one card..and is rock steady in the analog capture driver area

right now pinnacle is making all its capture cards incompatible with premiere (the companies had a big fight)..
Its not hard to get a pinnacle product that works with premiere right now..but that may swiftly change and PINNACLE's own software bites

The Canopus can be gotten fairly cheaply....Check PriceWatch.com for deals

[LivinNsc]

Found the ADVC-100 at price watch for $259. Is this a good deal? And...does it matter much what kind of fire wire card I get?

So If I buy the system above and get these tow things here (along with a monitor) is that about it? I realize I would want to soon get a second hard drive and more Memory when affordable.

[dcsos]

All firwire cards are created equal..in a way you can say they facilitate capturing VIDEO as a FILE TRANSER from camcorder,,the only time you drop frames is with serious tape damage....

I don't know current pricing..anyone..?

boy does that dell come loaded with BOREWARE
you'll have to peruse the list of TOOLS on theis site for some real productivity software..mush of it freeware to help your budget..
OPT fro WIN XP pro or win 2000 over home edition anyday

HOME EDTION doesn't support mulktiple monitors and certain other features are removed from a standard WINDOWS build.. This was done to screw the federal gov't when they commanded MICROSOFT to lower the price on the WINDOWS OS, Gates crippled windows...creating home edition...and then the bastard raised the price on WINDOWS FULL OS (saying **** you department of justice..and gettinag away with it..the end result..it cost over a hundered dollars more than windows 98 used to!)

[FulciLives]

Found the ADVC-100 at price watch for $259. Is this a good deal? And...does it matter much what kind of fire wire card I get?

So If I buy the system above and get these tow things here (along with a monitor) is that about it? I realize I would want to soon get a second hard drive and more Memory when affordable.

You really don't need more than 512MB RAM so I really wouldn't worry about that.

As for the FIREWIRE card I'm surprised the computer doesn't come with one ... I'm sure DELL can put one in for you.

You really should consider getting a second hard drive though sooner (like at the time of purchase) than later.

Also for I think $20.00 you can have a Sound Blaster Live 5.1 audio card added. Probably not really needed but for only $20 I'd get it.

- John "FucliLives" Coleman

[LivinNsc]

All firwire cards are created equal..in a way you can say they facilitate capturing VIDEO as a FILE TRANSER from camcorder,,the only time you drop frames is with serious tape damage....

I don't know current pricing..anyone..?

boy does that dell come loaded with BOREWARE
you'll have to peruse the list of TOOLS on theis site for some real productivity software..mush of it freeware to help your budget..
OPT fro WIN XP pro or win 2000 over home edition anyday

HOME EDTION doesn't support mulktiple monitors and certain other features are removed from a standard WINDOWS build.. This was done to screw the federal gov't when they commanded MICROSOFT to lower the price on the WINDOWS OS, Gates crippled windows...creating home edition...and then the bastard raised the price on WINDOWS FULL OS (saying **** you department of justice..and gettinag away with it..the end result..it cost over a hundered dollars more than windows 98 used to!)

Price watch has the fire wire for under $20 I think I am going to call Dell in the morning and order this one but I have made a few changes to it:
I dropped the DVD Burner cause it was $189 and pricewatch has them around $130. I will also see about adding another hard drive. I also dropped the DVD extra software since it seems I can get whatever necessary software with the DVD Burner from pricewatch. I will also see if Dell can install a fire wire for $20 or less and see if there are some other junk programs that I can drop. I am going to find out how much XP Pro costs also.

So If I end up with tis system and add the burner, firewire and ADVC-100 will I need anythign else to import edit and then make DVD ready to burn other than Premiere 6.5?

[FulciLives]

So If I end up with tis system and add the burner, firewire and ADVC-100 will I need anythign else to import edit and then make DVD ready to burn other than Premiere 6.5?

Not really although you will need a program for doing MPEG-2 conversion such as MainConcepts which either comes with Premiere or can be purchased seperately as a plug-in. There is also TMPGEnc Plus and CCE Basic both of which are around $70 and then last but not least you need a decent DVD authoring program and I recommend TMPGEnc DVD Author and it is only like around $70 as well.

As far as hardware goes you pretty much got all you need though a second HDD will come in rather handy.

As for the DVD burner I have the NEC ND-1300A which is a great though cheap DVD burner that does 4x DVD-R/RW as well as 4x DVD+R/RW and right now the cheapest price on PRICEGRABBER.COM is $111.00

You can get the NEC ND-1300A in that normal off-white/beige computer color or you can also get it in black which would probably match the DELL better.

Anyways good luck

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dcsos]

Premier 6.5 has the MAIN CONCEPT plug in that needs to be activated over the internet..

This is not an issue of SERIAL NUMBERCHECKING, but an independent adobe site where you enter data and a number is generated for your free use of the ENCODER...they are seeing how many of their users are actually using the mpeg part creating MPEG committee statitistics
(WOTION PICTURE EXPERTS GROUP= MPEG)

Sound like you're set!

Yeah DVD AUTHOING..the best I've used on Windows is SONIC REEL DVD
second SONIC F
OU
NDRYDVD ARCHITECT
third is a tie between DVDLAB and TMPGDVDAUTHOR

[LivinNsc]

Sounhds great guys! ACtualyl it got even better. I just checked out my cart on the Dell website and they now have included $99 off of shipping. I am going to call them after breakfast and be on my way.

But just to be clear....

Premiere is just my importing and editing software and the I need another prgram like the ones you guys have suggested to actuall burn it to a DVD? In choosing an authoring program are their any compatability issues I need to be aware of?

And where do I go in Premiere to activate "main concept"

[dcsos]

Depending on the Authoring platform you select you'll either have to create the DVD-READY file (MPG)
in one of TWO WAYS
1. as a regular mpg-2
2. seperate Audo & Video Elements

Premier does either

just check what the authoring program wants to see

[LivinNsc]

Which Authoring program should work well with what I am getting and won't require me to take a class on to leanr how to use it?

Also when I am looking for a monitor...Does it really matter what kind I get? --Other than CHEAP ofcourse

[Tommyknocker]

To get you hands "dirty" so to speak, try Ulead Video Studio 7. Easy, powerful. But let me tell you, I would trade you straight up for my copy of VS 7 for your copy of Adobe Premiere. Yoh have agood one, there!

[FulciLives]

Which Authoring program should work well with what I am getting and won't require me to take a class on to leanr how to use it?

Also when I am looking for a monitor...Does it really matter what kind I get? --Other than CHEAP ofcourse

I've tried about 5 different DVD authoring programs and my favorite has been TMPGEnc DVD Author. It is very easy to use especially the selection of chapter points which is usually a chore with other authoring programs.

It does supports some advanced MENU design like motion menus etc. but for the most part the menu design is NOT the greatest but with a bit of work you can make it look nice enough and it easy to use and seems to be very stable.

I tried DVD-Lab which has more options as far as MENU design but I had some issues with it. I think the program is a bit buggy if you ask me. A shame since it does seem to be a great program IF it were not for the various bugs in it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[LivinNsc]

To get you hands "dirty" so to speak, try Ulead Video Studio 7. Easy, powerful. But let me tell you, I would trade you straight up for my copy of VS 7 for your copy of Adobe Premiere. Yoh have agood one, there!

So what exactly is it that these prgrams will do that Premiere doesn't?

Am I corrent in thnking that Premiere doesn't actualyl send the finished project to the Burner but that I need this other program to put the finishing touches on it (ie chapters and menues) and then to the burner?

[trhouse]

Many MAC's are preconfigured for video/audio work including software which is why they are popular. On the PC side, Sony's are like the MAC. Even the cheapest ones have Firewire and software like "Click to DVD" installed for capturing from digital camcorders. Sony calls Firewire, iLink, which is the same as IEEE1394.

For less than $1,000 you can get a unit with DVD+-R/RW burner, 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 CPU and ready to accept a Canopus ADVC-100 ($259 street price) or Datavideo DAC-100 ($200 street price ) on the Firewire port. They have two iLink ports usually. For a bit more, they are available with GigaPocket which is mpeg2 capture hardware and a TV tuner built-in with software so you can capture right out of the box. Having Premiere is like icing on the cake.

[LivinNsc]

Many MAC's are preconfigured for video/audio work including software which is why they are popular. On the PC side, Sony's are like the MAC. Even the cheapest ones have Firewire and software like "Click to DVD" installed for capturing from digital camcorders. Sony calls Firewire, iLink, which is the same as IEEE1394.

For less than $1,000 you can get a unit with DVD+-R/RW burner, 2.6 GHz Pentium 4 CPU and ready to accept a Canopus ADVC-100 ($259 street price) or Datavideo DAC-100 ($200 street price ) on the Firewire port. They have two iLink ports usually. For a bit more, they are available with GigaPocket which is mpeg2 capture hardware and a TV tuner built-in with software so you can capture right out of the box. Having Premiere is like icing on the cake.

This Dell system I am getting along with the extras ends up being just under $1400 I will end up with the monitor, ADVC-1000, firewire, a second 120 SATA Hard Drive and the aurthoring software and come under $1400. I don't think I can get much better than that

where would I look to compare this sony system you are talking about?

[trhouse]

Try www.circuitcity.com.

Here is a sample.

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&qp=0&bookmark=bookmark_0&oid=79685&catoid=-8024

[FulciLives]

Try www.circuitcity.com.

Here is a sample.

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&qp=0&bookmark=bookmark_0&oid=79685&catoid=-8024

Well that SONY only has 256MB RAM and by the time you add a second HDD and a monitor and the Canopus ADVC-100 you are WAY over $1,400 total price.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trhouse]

I forgot that you asked about monitors. Most people in the video industry still use CRT type monitors not LCD's due to the CRT's ability to reproduce color more accurately.

[trhouse]

I have bought computers from Circuit City before so maybe that was not the best place to look. Here is a link to the Sony's latest. Like Dell, you can configure your own if you like.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProduc...FA1DT&Dept=cpu

[LivinNsc]

To get you hands "dirty" so to speak, try Ulead Video Studio 7. Easy, powerful. But let me tell you, I would trade you straight up for my copy of VS 7 for your copy of Adobe Premiere. Yoh have agood one, there!

So what exactly is it that these prgrams will do that Premiere doesn't?

Am I corrent in thnking that Premiere doesn't actualyl send the finished project to the Burner but that I need this other program to put the finishing touches on it (ie chapters and menues) and then to the burner?

Well...the system is on its way and now its time to locate the other peices. I am still wondering abouth the "authoring" software though. I have Adobe Premiere 6.5 so what is it that Premiere won't do that I need to find in another program??