Easiest way to convert PAL DVD to NTSC keeping AC3 sound?

[Neishaverse]

Traded some DVDs with a friend in the UK. Need to convert them to NTSC without changing or re-encoding as much as possiable. I don't want to have to uncompress my dolby audio and recompress it again.

This is what I was going to do. Please let me know if you know a easier or better way.

DVD is a very simple, 1 movie disc.
Authored with "TMPGEnc DVD Author"
No chapters or menus, VERY basic.
Originally recorded as a PAL AVI, edited with Vegas Video 4.
Video was encoded with Vegas (Main concepts) CBR 8MBps
Audio was encoded with Vegas (Dolby Digital 2.0) 256mbps

I was going to use Smart Ripper to rip the DVD.
Use Strem Processing to demux the m2v and the AC3 files.
Then use TMPGEnc to simple multiplex the m2v file.
I'm only doing this because Vegas won't open a m2v file. but it will open a mpg file.
Launch Vegas Video 4. Start a new project in DV PAL format.
Inport my new mpg file.
Change the project properties to DV NTSC.
Re-encode the video to a new NTSC m2v file.
Vegas should keep the length of the video the same as the original PAL file.
I assume it will do this, because when I went from NTSC to PAL.
I was able to use the same ac3 file, and no sync problems happened.

Then just re-author the DVD.

If anyone has done this conversion and feel they found a easier way or better way let me know.
When I converted a NTSC AVI to PAL for a friend of mine in Vegas it took almost 25 hours to convert a 65 minute video. I have a very nice system, and was shocked to see it take that long. I'm assuming I'm gonna have to wait just as long to go from PAL to NTSC also.

Barney

[DJRumpy]

I've done quite a few of these. Not necessarily better than your method. The video is the easiest. The audio is more complicated. You need the following tools:

AVISynth 2.5, DVD2AVI (V1.76), MPEG2DEC, BeSweet, and BeSweet GUI (v0.6b60 or higher)

To Convert The Video:
Open the DVD's main VOB's using DVD2AVI.
Set the AUDIO | DOLBY DIGITAL to DEMUX and Track # to 1
Ensure VIDEO | FIELD OPERATION is set to NONE
Select FILE | SAVE PROJECT, and call it anything with a .D2V extension (for this example, call it PROJECT.D2V )

Open Notepad, and enter the following:
LoadPlugin("c:\folder\mpeg2dec.dll")#put the path to your mepg2dec dll
MPEG2Source("project.d2v")#the filename of your D2V2AVI .D2V file
LanczosResize(720,480)
AssumeFPS(23.976,True)

Save the above as a .AVS file in the same directory as your .D2V file (Call it CONVERSION.AVS for this example).
Double click the .AVS file, and when prompted, select Windows Media Player as the default player (ensure you get Windows Meda Player, not Media Player). It should play properly without error. If an error is reported, examine the .AVS file at the line number reported for typos.

Open this AVS file in the encoder of your choice and encode it as if it was NTSC Film (23.976)

To Convert The Audio:
Open the AC3 file in BeSweet GUI. Select the 'AC3 & OGG' button on the right. Click the 'Bitrate' checkbox, and set it to match your input AC3 bitrate (usually 384, or 448)
In the 'Command Line' window ensure that the option '-ac3enc( -b 384 )' shows up (384 is just an example).
Click back on the 'BeSweet' button on the right.
Select the 'Presets' checkbox, and select 'PAL to NTSC (25 to 23.976)' option.
Set the ouput to AC3 (right to the right of the BOOST setting).
Verify once more that the 'Command Line' window shows the '-ac3enc( -b 384 )' option. If it does not, you will need to manually add it (see below: some versions of the GUI won't keep this there when you leave the AC3 & OGG section).
Copy the entire command line to the GUI. Open a DOS box, and select EDIT | PASTE from the menu (you can access the menu from teh very top left icon of the window itself or press ALT + SPACEBAR). If your version of BeSweet GUI did not add the -ac3enc option, then type it in now.
Hit enter to run the command. This will convert your PAL 5.1 AC3 to NTSC 5.1 AC3.

Author and Burn.

[Dennis1968]

Try this trick. I have successfully ripped and converted sereval UK issued DVDs to play on many different US only/ non firmware upgradable DVD players. after ripping the contents to the HD using Smartripper 2.41, i used IfoEdit .95 to remove the region code restriction and replaced the PAL header with NTSC headers. Them Burn them onto a 4.7gb DVD+R. So far have not ran across a DVD player that will not play them.

[txpharoah]

i used IfoEdit .95 ..... replaced the PAL header with NTSC headers.

How? I rarely use IFO Edit, not sure what to do here. Willing to try this method.

[FulciLives]

Try this trick. I have successfully ripped and converted sereval UK issued DVDs to play on many different US only/ non firmware upgradable DVD players. after ripping the contents to the HD using Smartripper 2.41, i used IfoEdit .95 to remove the region code restriction and replaced the PAL header with NTSC headers. Them Burn them onto a 4.7gb DVD+R. So far have not ran across a DVD player that will not play them.

Son of a bitch if this doesn't work. I mean, I tred it right ... and it DOES WORK. I'm not sure how WELL it works though. I'm still testing. But I tried it with two PAL DVD sources. One was a 4:3 widescreen interlaced PAL DVD5 and the other was a 4:3 fullscreen progressive PAL DVD9.

Here is what I did:

1.) RIPPED the DVD using DVD DECRYPTER in FILE MODE edit select ALL FILES.
2.) In the case of the DVD9 disc I then ran DVD2ONE (latest version 1.2.3 or something like that) to get it down from the original size which was 6.4GB down to about 4.25GB
3.) I edited ALL of the IFO files using IFOEdit. I simply looked for any lines that said PAL in them. The main IFO I think had 3 instances I changed. The other IFO's for each disc only had like 2 instances per IFO. Simply double click on the line that says PAL. This brings up a window. Change to NTSC and select field order. I didn't know which to pick so in all instances ... for this test ... I picked FIELD A ... seemed to work.

Notes:
I get the sense that the action, movement, whatever is not as smooth as doing a true conversion but I have to admit it looks good but I only tested it on a 13" TV so far. Will have to do some more testing.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[DJRumpy]

This would be much easier then re-encoding. I hate having to lose all of the menu's just to convert to NTSC. You didn't note which line items you had to change in IFOEdit though?

I have some DVD source files up here. I'll see if I can find the references today.

[DJRumpy]

The header info is all right at the top, and simple to find. It's in three sections in the main IFO, all clearly labled. You will have to scroll down a tiny bit for the main IFO, but the VOB ifo's are all easy to spot. As FulciLives said, they have only two that I can see.

FulciLives, did you also change the resolution flags to an NTSC compatible, or did you just leave them as is?

[Dennis1968]

AS i have previously pointed out, you have to change all the PAL flags to NTSC in the Video_TS.ifo. the number of flags depends on the idividial dvd. the most i have seen so far have been 10 flags for Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets

[nkuperw]

If using a PAL system and changing the IFO headers to make NTSC, what about the resolution? Will it still work on an NTSC tv?

[DJRumpy]

The resolution settings aren't flagged as ntsc, or pal specifically. We need to know if the resolution settings can be left alone.

As an FYI, the 5.1 AC3 audio can be converted from PAL to NTSC (or vice versa), using AC3 Machine. The BeSweet method described above introduces a quiet 'ticking' sound at times, which is very irritating.

Using AC3 Machine, I was able to convert from one to the other with a minimum of fuss. It extracts each channel to WAV, converts the length as needed, and then re-encodes into a 5.1 AC3 file. Very nice...

[Dennis1968]

you can leave the resolution to 720x480, so far all my modified PAL DVD play on my NTSC only TV and NTSC DVD player.

Poeple need to read and expeireiment with the programs instead of asking for a detailed step by step, popup window menu guideline. I did not know you could modify the flag lines until i played and experiemented with the programs. I could not find a how to Manual about IfoEdit that went into details that i discovered.

Different DVDs will have different number of PAL lines to modify.

[txpharoah]

My version doesn't seem to work like yours apparently. As soon as I change the headers to NTSC from PAL, it wants to change resolutions as well. How about a quick few screencaps? What you're saying to do, and what the program is doing in practice, sure don't seem to be adding up.

The resulting DVD plays back badly and does not display properly.

On what size tv are you viewing your results, and do you notice any sort of side-effects from this quick-slop method?

[jeex]

hooo.. now you got him mad..

although he is right, it does sound like a quick-slop method.. kind of like patching svcd's with dvd headers..

[Dennis1968]

what TV set did you veiw the cringing results on? 4X3? 16X9? I have seen negative side affects from "Full Screen, 4X3. last decade TV show" being played on a modern "Flat Panel 16x9 Widescreen Plasma Set" It was blocky, and sctreched to far. I CRINGED.

i have reveiwed, these tricked out PAL DVDs on a 25", 27". 32", 40", and a 65" TV sets (all of them were 4.3 at 640X480 resolution), have not seen any difference in the veiwing between the test models. you are correct when you go in and change from PAL to NTSC and then it changes the aspect resolution automatically. the only setting i have played with is as follwing.

if the PAL was 720x576 then the NTSC i selected was 720x480.

as far as the other suggestable changes like "Coding Mode", Bit Rate", "Film, "CC for Line 21", Aspect Ration", and "Static" , I left those alone.


I personally could not tell a Difference. but then again, i do not have the luxury to have access to a mass warehouse of various makes and model to play with.

By your trial and error, you might have stumbled upon a player that has a restriction in the chipset. Resulting in, updated data for this chop shop approach. Please keep us aprised of your outcome, Hoping that Hollywod did not meddle to deep in manufacturing.


All we as consumers want is to be able to see our DVDs no matter where they were sold. Hoping the Hollywood industry gets the message and starts releasing tiles either a Region 0 version or make it avaiable on both sides of the ocean.

[Dennis1968]

jeex you are correct. When you think about it, both methods are being used to trick the player into thinking it is one thing and not what is truely is. I tried the SVCD header trick on a Toshiba, could not get it to boot. I tried and tried for about month before i realised that some players have restrictions in the chipset no matter what you do to fool it.

[DJRumpy]

Poeple need to read and expeireiment with the programs instead of asking for a detailed step by step, popup window menu guideline.

Dennis, not everyone has a player that will support RW media. If they attempted this without feedback, or asking questions, they would most likely end up with a coaster for their efforts. There is nothing wrong with asking for information. That is the whole purpose of this forum.

Just to follow up on this, I went through this last night with a project I was already working on. Changing the PAL flag to NTSC will force the resolution to switch to NTSC standards (PAL resolutions disappear, and are no longer an option). Note, that until you save, and reload your IFO, they will continue to say PAL. I simply selected the NTSC equivelent of the PAL resolution (720x576 to 720x480). I would do the same with the Half-D1 resolutions.

There are other issues as well. Menu selection hotspots no longer work as expected. The hotspots on the DVD menus moved offscreen, so they could no longer be seen. Although they were still functional (you could still arrow around offscreen), you could not see what you were highlighting when working with the hotspots closest to the edge of the screen. Other than that, the DVD played almost flawlessly. Playback was smooth, with no noticable jumps. There was some indication of resizing in the subtitles and straight lines. They had a bit of the jaggies.

I compared this DVD to the same NTSC converted DVD I had done the night before. The quality on the converted DVD was superior to the patched DVD, showing no jaggies on any of the lines, but of course, the menu's were all missing.

I'm going out of town tomorrow, so I won't be able to finish my testing. At his point, I have a few assumptions.

If the menu PAL flag is changed to 'Automatic Letterboxed', then I suspect my hotspot issue would have been resolved too, since this was the setting used for the video itself, and it displayed without issue. The malfunctioning menu was defaulted to 'Automatic Pan & Scan', which is where I left it. Make sure if you do this, that all video, and menus are set to 'Automatic Letterboxed' and they should appear normal.

[hhamzeh]

Dennis, not everyone has a player that will support RW media. If they attempted this without feedback, or asking questions, they would most likely end up with a coaster for their efforts. There is nothing wrong with asking for information. That is the whole purpose of this forum.

I agree with the MASTER on this.

[gruntfuttock]

Great thread this I've been looking for a way of converting these pesky PAL dvd's and will give this a go...one question though do I have to change the audio over and if so does this mean that i'll need to reauthor the vob files...Thanx guys and keep up the good work

[DJRumpy]

You shouldn't have to modify the audio at all. It's the same for both PAL, and NTSC DVD's. Just change the PAL settings in all of the IFO's to NTSC, and set the 'Automatic Letterbox' option for all of them, and you should be all set.

[gruntfuttock]

Thank you for the quick response I have changed all the ifo's as per your instruction on Disney's dinsuar movie which was ripped using dvd decryptor then passed through dvd2one to shrink it enough to get the menus and extras in...not by me a freind in the uk.
Now I guess it's the moment of truth unfortunately my player will not read dvdrw only dvdr discs so I can't do a test run on dvdrw but will let you know the outcome of this...might save me having to buy a dvd player that supports PAL dvd.

[gruntfuttock]

Tried this method and it doesn't work on my Lenoxx player.Shame coz it did look very promising...I get most of the menu dissapearing on me(yes did your settings) and the film well get a little bit of intro music and a black screen with two white lines across it...guess i'll be buying another player now.
My player must one of those awkward ones that only accepts NTSC dvd's and is probably the exception to the rule but it was worth a shot.

[Dennis1968]

It is a shame that many older DVD players on the market will not support CD-R. CD-RW, and/or DVD recoradable and rewritables. Techinical reason these players do not support recordable media is the laser pickup and not the chipset. Samsung was the only company i could a technical response from.

The more we expand the tech envelope, the better understands of the limitations of many devices.

[PROJECT MAYHEM]

try ps2

[rockstar70]

Tried the ifoedit PAL to NTSC method mentioned in this thread and then used DVDShrink to do a level one shrink on the main movie(concert) and then burned to DVD-R. The DVD-R looks and plays fine on my computer DVD burner(Sony DRU-810AX). On my standalone Daewoo DVG-3000N the picture looks good but the movie seems to skip or stop then start every few seconds. I don' think it's a DVDShrink compression issue but I may try it with no encoding changes just to be sure. Any other thoughts?

Thanks,

JJ

[dvddead]

i ripped dvd-5 by Samrt Ripper 2.41, then using ifoedit.95 i found and changed 2 entries of NTSC, i changed them for PAL. Then burned to DVD-R, my Apex 600A doesn't play it, and my DVD-rom doesn't too. My POwerDVD software player shows: "Error code: 89030000. Unknown file format". What do u think of that?

thanx

[mazinz]

funny this method of patching the ifo was mentioned, i tried something like this a few weeks ago but it did not work so well (only tried 2 of my 5 machines). Here is what happend in my older pioneer 525 (which literally can play anything) both machines support pal format. i got no sound, the pic size was correct and looked nice, their was "video intereference at the very bottom of the letterboxed pic, and it did jump a little.

Next i put the disc in my panasonic recorder (dmr-hs2) got sound, but the pic was much worse.

the idea for this is a good one but it really doesnt work or if it does, consider yourself lucky as im sure most machines will not do this correctly, unless it perhaps has pal to ntsc covnersion built in to begin with. The only true way of converting is by re-encodong it back over.

ABOUT THE SOUND FROM THE ORIGINAL POST:
you do not have to convert the sound over, i see people mention it and it just does not have to be done. Here is what i did, rip the elementary streams with smart ripper. Tmpg sometimes acts funny if you input ac3 sound (having the right codecs it will allow you to do so), so using soft encode or whatever app you want, convert the sound to a wav. This is done for the sole purpose of making sure tmpg does the whole file and not mess up because of the ac3 sound. Then i import the m2v video file and set the settings for an ntsc dvd.

So i have my m2v and my waveaudio, i then just hit start and let it convert. Once done i discard the mpeg audio it made and remux (or whatever you want to do with it) the original audio with my new video file. I have done this quite a number of times and the sync is always dead on.
have fun--- T

[DJRumpy]

Back from vacation. Just following up (again)

The method will work for the video portion of the DVD. It did not work for the menu's, regardless of the 'pan', or 'letterbox' mode set on the menu's IFO. Your results may vary. I would encourage you to try if your player supports DVD-RW/+RW

I'll stick with the old conversion method. At least I avoid any 'jaggies' from the resize, and my home made (albeit primitive in comparison) menu's work as well. This would be a good (read: quick) solution to work around a PAL version, as long as you don't need good functional menu's.

[anosis]

I got a few german movies from a friend that he wanted me to convert.

This setup converts the movie only - no original menu's.

Used a ripper to get the IFO and VOB of the main movie to the HD. Then took DVD2AVI to extract the AC3 sound. With MPEG Conveter 1.3 form Mainconcept, I re-encoded the PAL to NTSC (very easy setup). This creates a M2V file for each VOB - no sound of course. To rejoin the M2V and the AC3 I used TMPEGenc Plus (my sound was in sync, despite all the different statements form above). At last I used TMPEGAuthor to create a new set of IFO and VOB and burned them with Nero.

I will be working on a detailed guide with screen shots if anyone is interested. Some of the steps, I am sure, could be simplified and I will over time try to improve the steps needed to get a NTSC DVD from PAL source.

[DJRumpy]

anosis, unless you converted your audio, then it would be out of sync. This leads me to think your video is still 25fps, and not 23.976fps. It is unavoidable that when converting your movie to FILM (23.976 fps), the length of the movie changes. This is what introduces the audio sync issue. You have to change your audio length to match the new length of your video.

You should verify the FPS of your source file, and your final output VOB's to see what framerate their at.

[FulciLives]

anosis, unless you converted your audio, then it would be out of sync. This leads me to think your video is still 25fps, and not 23.976fps. It is unavoidable that when converting your movie to FILM (23.976 fps), the length of the movie changes. This is what introduces the audio sync issue. You have to change your audio length to match the new length of your video.

You should verify the FPS of your source file, and your final output VOB's to see what framerate their at.

What DJRumpy has said IS true BUT ... there are methods that will allow you to convert a 25fps source to 29.97fps in such a way so that the original audio will be in SYNCH. This is not possible if you go from 25fps to 23.976fps but there is ... as I said ... at least one way that I know of (which works well) of going from 25fps to 29.97fps and matching the new VIDEO to the original AUDIO.

This method is detailed on the following website:

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/
In fact I think this website is now on the guides section somewhere on this website

If you find some of the methods on that website to be confusing then you might want to take a look at this THREAD here on this website:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433&highlight=
This THREAD contains some more details and fills in some of the missing holes existing in the (mostly) excellent website by xesdeeni.

Required readings for anyone wanting to do PAL to NTSC conversions.

Also please note that there are ways of converting PAL to NTSC that are INCORRECT in that frames will be dropped and this is a BAD thing so just because you convert PAL to NTSC doesn't mean it "worked" the way it SHOULD. However, having said that, I should point out that my experiences with the MainConcept MPEG encoder are limited and I've never tried PAL to NTSC with it. My experiences with PAL to NTSC conversions have included CCE and (mostly) TMPGEnc.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman