Capturing vs just buying a DVD recorder?

[Bob W]

Several folks here have commented that the DVD recorders do a better job at making a DVD from a VHS tape than you can get from any capture card or external capture device. Is that true? If so then what exactly does the recorder do that capturing from a VHS tape doesn't?

[FulciLives]

Several folks here have commented that the DVD recorders do a better job at making a DVD from a VHS tape than you can get from any capture card or external capture device. Is that true? If so then what exactly does the recorder do that capturing from a VHS tape doesn't?

Most of the stand alone DVD recorders have things that you don't get with a capture card. For instance, the PANASONIC line of stand alone DVD recorders have a built-in TBC (Time Base Corrector) and a 3D adaptive comb filter. The cheapest capture card that I am aware of that has the same features is made by CANOPUS and costs more than the DMR-E50 (which is the "basic" model stand alone DVD recorder by PANASONIC).

I use PANASONIC as an example because I know a lot about them but most of the major brands of stand alone DVD recorders (Philips and Pioneer for example) have I believe the same stuff.

A lot of people are getting excited over the new APEX stand alone DVD recorder but it does NOT have a built-in TBC and I doubt that the comb filter is anywhere near as good as that in the PANASONIC or CANOPUS capture card etc.

Anyways those things make a BIG difference. Now if you have a capture card without that stuff you CAN buy a stand alone TBC and run your video through that BEFORE getting it to the capture card but the cheapest stand alone TBC I know of is around $170 USD and the second cheapest is close to $300 USD so that's a lot of money to BLOW and you still don't have an outstanding comb filter on most (nearly all) computer capture devices.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I did recently buy a $50 USD capture card called the "AverTV Stereo" and I am happy with the quality of it but truth be told I bought it more for the geek factor of having something new and kewl to play with. It also doesn't help that software MPEG-2 encoding takes FOREVER so I doubt the lil capture card I bought will replace my stand alone DVD recorder anytime soon

[Bob W]

I was consider buying the Sharp DV-RW2U DVD-RW Recorder for $349. I wonder if it has TBC or the comb filter?
http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=137370&options=T

[FulciLives]

I was consider buying the Sharp DV-RW2U DVD-RW Recorder for $349. I wonder if it has TBC or the comb filter?
http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=137370&options=T

I don't know anything about the SHARP unit but the PANASONIC DMR-E50 can be found on-line for around $400 if you use a price search website such as PRICEGRABBER.COM or MySimon

If you ask me that ain't THAT much more to spend to get a PROVEN product. The DMR-E50 is the 4th generation in the PANASONIC line of stand alone DVD recorders. SHARP hasn't made a DVD recorder until NOW I guess but I haven't heard "jack" about it. Not a good sign if you ask me hehehe

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SHS]

Bob W thoses device have good point and bad point

There good point
This device dose REALtime MPEG Encoding and at same time it Writing to the DVD disc in one take so long as the power dosen't go out on you.

There bad point
No Editing
No Menu Creation
No Chapters
Oh how about all TV Episode you want cap in order and add 2 to 6 Episode per disc depend on the bitrate and resolution use.

TBC (Time Base Corrector) is most need for VHS Tape other that it not very useful and as for 3D adaptive comb filter it is cool features but in to mostly not needed beside nothing artifact free any way.
What really most need Hardware DCDi (Directional Correlation Deinterlacing) and better Chroma Processing and woste of all Bad Edit Detection so what really need is this Faroudja FLI2300

[qpskfec]

I use a Philips 985, it captures from vhs just fine. It's being replaced by newer models, so I've seen it in stores for $399.

It has simple linear editing features. You can rename titles, add/delete chapter points, hide/unhide chapters.

[handyguy]

"No Editing
No Menu Creation
No Chapters "

A panasonic can do all that, up to about 1,000 scenes-copy, shorten, cut, paste, title, etc ....e50s have more menu selections (9?) ....

E30s are actually better because they have more input/output connectors, more buttons on the front of the machine so you aren't so dependent on the remote.

Point of a dvd recorder is to use it as a vcr, a Panaonic uses dvdrm disks, which have twice the data rate of a dvdr, so you can RECORD to a disk when you are watching another program on the same disk.

[SHS]

You do mean twice the disc space rigth handyguy.
Ahh see they final got round to that from the last time I look at them I see they have add harddrive to but man they cost arm&leg.

[next]

I believe he meant twice the data rate like he said.

Because the format has twice the data rate as the + or - formats it is possible to record onto a disc (burn) while you are playing back from another portion of the disc. The Panasonic DVD recorders incorporate this feature into their products.

The RAM in DVD-Ram stands for random access. The + or - formats do not offer random access.

Think of a DVD-Ram disc as a small hard drive. Not simply a disc to burn to like with the + or - formats.

There is no way that the RW discs for either the + or - formats can offer this feature.

[wonderuss]

To mix things up here i use both methods (sort of) but it's usually from digital tv film channels, i record to dvd+rw on my Philips DVD recorder then rip the disc onto my pc. Once i have the files on my pc i use vob edit to demux them then use dvd maestro to make a pro-looking dvd with the quality that is straight from a digital source. VHS on the other hand i do by running the video signal through my Panasonic WJ-AVE5 (oldschool video processor) for the Timebase corrector then rip the disc again and use maestro. If i want to capture old vhs to the pc for editing i use my Dazzle Hollywood DV bridge and capture and edit in Premiere then encode with TMPEG and author again with Maestro. A dvd recorder is good for realtime Mpeg encoding...but you really need to make a better job of your discs by using a PC and a DVD burner!

or just get both hehe

[SHS]

No next
Data Rate = The speed with which data can be transmitted from one device to another. Data rates are often measured in megabits (million bits) or megabytes (million bytes) per second. These are usually abbreviated as Mbps and MBps, respectively.
Now and for
Random Access = The terms random access and sequential access are often used to describe data files. A random-access data file enables you to read or write information anywhere in the file. In a sequential-access file, you can only read and write information sequentially, starting from the beginning of the file.
Oh Random Accessare are use on CD, DVD, Floppy, HardDisk, etc, etc.

I'm sorry that word the RAM in DVD-Ram dosen't stands for random access.
Are you sure you not ref to MultiRead well I hate tell CD and DVD can do this to.

about this "possible to record onto a disc (burn) while you are playing back from another portion of the disc." only becuase magneto-optical it petty the same as HardDisk, FloppyDisk, ZipDisk.

[next]

SHS. I'm suprised. I really like your sites.

http://www.ahinc.com/dvd.html

Not the best I could do but it will do in a pinch.

[next]

Better:

http://www.dvd-player-review.com/dvd-ram/index.shtml

Dated but it gives a clue.

[next]

http://www.avvideo.com/2003/06_jun/news/npd0617.htm

A quote:

The jury is still out on DVD-RAM and its future. Although its random access read/write support and 100,000 read/write cycles is clearly superior to the two other rewritable formats, its compatibility is limited. Plan to purchase a separate drive for each location in which you work.


http://www.technology-boiseoffice.com/tech&business_edge/article.asp?Article_ID=382&vw=3

[next]

Hopefully I won't get a yellow for too many posts in a row. Just trying to educate here.

DVD-RAM
* Random access read/write, just as with a hard drive.
* Comprehensive Defect Sector Management(DSM) support to ensure randomly written data is only placed in usable areas of the media and that data is accurately recovered during the read, write processes.
*100,000 rewrite cycles.
DVD-RW/+RW
* Sequential re-recording in a streaming fashion, similar to tape.
* 1,000 rewrite cycles for write, test, modify, re-record applications.

http://www.optodisc.com/q&a.html

I'm even trying to footnote here.

Here's an old post on the e-20. Look at the DVD-Ram capabilities. Can't happen with RW.

http://www.supremevideo.com/DVD/panasonic/dmre20.htm

[lordsmurf]

It's control vs convenience.

A capture card and computer gives more control, but may take a bit longer. It could be just an hour or so extra (using my methods), or days extra (depending on some wacky methods others use).

A standalone is fast. Don't let that TBC argument fool you. It does have a TBC, but not a very powerful one. But you have no control over menus, extras, bitrate, chapters, encodes, etc. But it's fast and idiot-proof!

Which are you after? Just getting it on DVD or making it look as real as a Hollywood-made DVD? I think of a standalone as a VCR replacement, nothing more. For advanced projects, I'll stick to my computer.

[next]

It's control vs convenience.

A capture card and computer gives more control, but may take a bit longer. It could be just an hour or so extra (using my methods), or days extra (depending on some wacky methods others use).

A standalone is fast. Don't let that TBC argument fool you. It does have a TBC, but not a very powerful one. But you have no control over menus, extras, bitrate, chapters, encodes, etc. But it's fast and idiot-proof!

Which are you after? Just getting it on DVD or making it look as real as a Hollywood-made DVD? I think of a standalone as a VCR replacement, nothing more. For advanced projects, I'll stick to my computer.

I agree totally. I've been capturing to a PC using consumer based financially acceptable products for years. After many many tests my favorite is the ATI AIW. Works great.

SHS - tried the Haupauge mpeg hardware encoder (pvr-250) but was not my favorite for pvr funtionality.

I've got an AIW capture setup integrated into my entertainment center that I use all the time. It has 240 gigs of capture potential. And believe it or not I'm a fan of Guide+. It works and I use it all the time.

But if I'm interested in significantly better quality I capture directly to my Panasonic. Directly to DVD-R if I don't plan on any subsequent editing or directly to DVD-Ram if I plan on importing to my PC.

I see it everyday. The diference in quality is obvious. And I'm not a capture newbie. Been doing it for years.

For the faint of heart you cannot go wrong with a DVD-Recorder. They work and they work easy. Better in fact that this:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157660

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=166660

And for those who have playing around as long as I have the MMC Reg Tool that Stinky wrote still has me credited as the inspiration. Thanks Stinky.

Been there.

And let's not forget. After you figure out all of the wonderful challenges mentioned in the posts I mentioned above you still have to author those wonderful captures. Here's a start if there any questions:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=30

And then burning...can't forget about that......

Only problem I see is that after the 'masses' 'get it' then most of the posts from the threads I mentioned above go away.

Poof - like flash paper.