Jerky Motion When Converting to SVCD MPEG2 in TMPGEnc

[superJess]

I captured several videos from digital satellite with a Pinnacle DC10Plus capture card. I created edited AVIs from Pinnacle Studio 8 and then converted the AVIs to SVCD compatible MPEG2 with TMPGEnc (it does a better job than Studio 8 does converting to MPEG2 - at least as far as how crisp it is).

Some of them are fine - but in some of them the video is jerky during scenes with a fair amount of motion. We're not talking about high motion, just a person making a quick movement. I've tried different bitrates and converting with motion search precision of Highest Quality and Motion Estimate Search. It seems to do the same thing no matter what.

If I play the video on my computer I don't really see the jerkiness - it's only when I put it on a SVCD and watched it on my TV. Any idea what is going on or what I can do here?

[ImaWeTodd]

Sounds like an intrlaced video problem. The field order may be reversed. Some capture cards do this. Try searching on field order or see if TMPGEnc has a option to fix this. I'm sure it does, but I don't use it. I recall seeing a post on how to determine field order using TMPGEnc.

[DJRumpy]

TMPGenc does have an option to set it. I agree, it probably is field order. You'll find the setting on the Advanced tab. To check it, use the method Adam suggested. Double click the Deinterlace filter on the Advanced tab, and try changing the setting from even to odd. Move step by step through the video, and see which causes a jerk.

Once you know the field order your card captures in, it will always be in that order when captured with that device.

[superJess]

Thanks guys! I'm going to try this and let you know how it works out... I appreciate the input.

[lchiu7]

I experienced exactly the same problem. I have tried playing around with Field Order in tempgenc but Top Field A only reduced the jerkiness. I am putting the problem down to the Morgan mjpeg decoder I have installed (the DC10plus encodes in mjpeg format and from my experience, you can't view the files outside Pinnacle without some soft of mjpeg codec installed - the Pinnacle one doesn't seem to work outside of Pinnacle). So I am resorting to using Pinnacle to output the mpeg file and post process then.

Did you find any other solution?

Larry

[bmiller]

I had the same problem capturing avi's with the picvideo codec,and creating Mpeg's with Tmpg.I changed the the field order to top field first A,and voila,the jerkiness is gone.I found info from a guide on this site about bottom field B first is for dv sources,and top field first A is for analog sources.

[lchiu7]

I wonder if the jerkiness from decoding (not encoding) the mjpeg signal from the DC10+ card is due to some incompatibility between the mjpeg format as produced by the DC10+ card and the various mjpeg codecs you can install. I think XP has one, Morgan has one and there is the PicVideo one. I am going to try to use the PicVideo one to decode my mjpeg files when converting to mpeg2 using tmpgenc. If that removes the jerkiness, then I will be happy

[DJRumpy]

Field order is always bottom first on DV, but not all analog sources are top field. It varies by source. If you used the same capture device, then it will always be the same, for that capture device. When in doubt, check. You can use the de-interlace filter in TMPGenc, to try both field order settings. Step through your video frame by frame, and see which appears jerky. Adam came up with that method. It works well. Just don't forget to turn off the deinterlace filter when you're done

[lchiu7]

Just to provide an update. Ultimate goal of this exercise was to create a NTSC DVD from a PAL TV capture

Tried the following:

1. Converted the mjpeg file to mpeg2 using Studio 7 which I then ran through tmpgenc using the DVD NTSC template adjusting the picture size to 720x480 (actually 700x460) to take care of overscan

Picture is fine with no jerkiness but of course some loss of clarity

2. Converted the mjpeg file to mpeg2 using tmpgenc directly but with the Morgan MJPEG codec disabled and using the PicVideo MJPEG codec instead. Burnt to DVD. Picture is pretty good - only a slight bit of jerkiness noticeable only on fast motion (capturing and converting a rugby game which has lots of motion)

So conclusion from this is the jerkiness is probably due to 1) PAL to NTSC conversion and incompatibility with the mjpeg file from the DC10+ and Morgan codec (though that codec has tons of switches I don't pretend to understand)

Last experiment is to capture a TV show and convert to PAL DVD (so no conversion) using the PicVideo codec. If that is not jerky than in my view, the problem has been solved

Larry

[DJRumpy]

lchiu7, the conversion to NTSC, if done properly, should not have caused any jerkiness in your video. If done improperly (i.e dropping frames), then you would get a jerk every second. What method did you use to convert from PAL to FILM?

[lchiu7]

For some background.

1. Video files captured with the DC10+ (via s-video) and converted using tmpgenc (with the Morgan mjpeg codec) were always a bit jerky (PAL) but annoyingly so.

2. In the interim I tried to do PAL to NTSC conversion using just tmpgenc by selecting a DVD NTSC template for the output. Again while playable once burnt they were also a bit jerky.

Switching to the PicVideo codec in (2) I have gotten excellent results - picture is almost perfect with hardly any trace of jerkiness

For (1) the picture is perfect - as if I had recorded the picture on SVHS or Hi8 (using 4000kb/sec 720x576 which is enough given that the original picture is TV cable quality)

I did try all the methods outlined here for converting to NTSC including demultiplexing audio/video, using BeSweet to convert framerate etc. but could never get the sound in sync without having it sound like chipmunks. Just by using tmpgenc I am getting the conversion done in one step with no (apparentl) hassles. Certainly when playing the DVD's on my player and checking with the TV, the ouptu video is NTSC format and it sounds okay in terms of pitch etc.

Larry

[DJRumpy]

Ok, I may see where your going. When you convert from PAL, to NTSC, it sounds like your trying to convert from 25 fps, to 29.97fps. Unless your using a telecine method, you should avoid this route. In TMPGenc, you must select the 'Do Not Frame Rate Convert' option when you choose the NTSC DVD Template. You also need to set the 'Encode Mode' on the VIDEO tab to "3:2 pulldown when playback", and then set the FRAME RATE setting on the same tab to "23.976 fps (internally 29.97 fps)".

For the audio, convert it to WAV using BeSweet if necessary. Take that WAV, and in the BeSweet GUI, just choose the PAL (25fps) to FILM (23.976fps) option, selecting WAV again for the output. Take the converted WAV and then convert it to AC3, or MP2 in BeSweet.

The reason you manually step the WAV file to AC3, or MP2, is due to a bug in the GUI. If you just drop your input MP2 into BeSweet, set your PAL to FILM options, and set your output to AC3/MP2, then it sometimes doesn't do the PAL to FILM part, or your output is garbled. Try the one-step approach first if you like. It may work for you, but if that fails, do the video step-by-step.

What all of this will do, is convert your PAL, to FILM (23.976 FPS). It will also add pulldown flags to the mpeg, to make it appear to be 29.97 FPS to any player, or authoring software.