DVD-R vs. DVD+R questions and problems

[Contraband75]

I have read many many posts in here about how -R is the better format. I am about to disagree. Not to put anyone down, and no I am not trying to start another flame war. I would like some honest unbiased opinions about what I have to say.

I have a TDK 440N Burner. For those that don't know, this is a 4x dual format burner that uses both -R and +R media. With this burner, I have yet to burn a -R disc. I was finally able to burn one movie with it using EZcd 6. The only machine this movie plays in is a crappy $30 Apex player. I bought a brand new Sony progressive scan DVD player that says right on the box that it plays everything but DVD-RAM, and it wont play in there.

Now before anyone has a fit and claims that EZcd 6 is my problem, hear me out. ( normally use Nero) I can use a +R on EZcd6 (after with much fighting with it) and succesfully make a disc that will play on everything I throw it at.....the PS2, Apex, REALLY old Magnavox, Xbox, and my new Sony.

I bought a 10 pack of Sony 2x -R dvd's and none of them work. I thought maybe I had some bad discs, so I bought some Memorex 2x ones too. I normally use +R and all of them work fine. I hate EZcd, and normally use Nero. I have updated Nero a couple of times, none of this has helped. As soon as I try to burn a -R disc, Nero gives me a message saying buring failed due to an invalid field in the disc and once command. I have also tried clone cd, cdr-win, and Ulead DVD factory. I have looked over many differn't forums for weeks on end, and no one has any clues. If I burn with any other program other than Nero, it burns the disc, but can only be read in the PC dvd player (not including the burner).

To me, this means that these -R discs are worthless for movies, and only serve a purpose to me as a data disc. Which brings me to my second point.

I dont know where everyone lives, or where you shop, but +R discs in North Dakota are about $.80 (average) per disc cheaper than -R. On average here, IF and thats a big if, I can find -R discs, a 10 pack usually costs around $32. For the same brand, a 10 pack of +R is around $22. This seems to be the same at all stores. Whether it's Sam's Club (by far the cheapest, even beats online with $67 for a 50 pack of verbatum 4x +R) Best Buy, Super Target, Walmart, Kmart, CompUSA, or even a Gateway Store, the +R is cheaper and many more brands are available. The only time I ever see -R discs cheaper than +R discs, is when Staples has a sale with rebates for some crappy Optimum brand discs.

When I bought my burner, I made sure that it was compatible with both formats just to be on the safe side. I paid much much more for the dual capability, in case the tech went one way or the other, but I could have gotten either a -R or +R burner. Which, also furthers my point, the -R burners had very few online or at any store to buy, most people were sold out of the -R with no ETA on when they were or if they were getting more. The +R burners were on average $50 cheaper for the same company and speed -R burners and readily available. Which is only gonna make someone comment that the reason for this is because the -R is more popular and retailers can't keep enough of them on hand. If that was the case, then why are the -R discs so much more expensive, and so hard to find. They don't even have shelf space for them.

What I want to know is, what I am doing wrong with these -R discs. For all those out there that swear that -R is better, they need to make me a believer by giving me some hints as to whats going on. I have followed all the guides I can find and used several differnt settings that wern't even covered in them. I have even tried differnt burning apps, none of which work except for EZcd 6 which I still dont count as being succesful. With a +R disc, all apps work just fine and the results play on everything.

I am begining to belive that my burner is defective. I have about 20 blank -R discs laying here that I would not like to go to waste, and any help would be great.

Thanks in advance.

[musher70]

The answer is so clear and right in front of you....
TDK makes media, not hardware, why on earth
would you buy an unproved burner, ive never
seen any post here or anywhere else that
would get me to buy one of those TDK makes,
if you got the pioneer or sony, at least you
could troubleshoot ur issues ur having, it
could be the media or the methods ur using,
try a demo of xcopy or instantcopy to see
if the same issues arrise....As for dvd-r
not working, I burned 200 discs so far in
the pioneer 104/105's, and have yet found
a player that wouldnt read them....

[txpharoah]

Simply stated, you buy +R because you fit in the demographic of a +R buyer rather than the -R demographic. And furthermore, user error does not make playing errors the fault of the disc. You most likely made the disc with incorrect specs. I've burned 10's of thousands (if not 100's of thousands) of discs since the Pioneer 103 came out in 2001. The discs work great.

[Bob W]

I burn both formats and they all play wonderful in my three players my friends players and my family's players. Both formats are great however I tend to use more DVD-R for the simple reason the media cost less.

What is the model number of your Sony player. I will look it up and see if has a problem.

[rvl123]

Forget EZCD6, it's junk as all the other EZCDs are.

Get CopyToDVD for DVD burning and Nero for CD burning - should solve all your problems.

BTW, the -R media is a lot cheaper than the +R media. Check all the major media websites and then come back.

[Cornucopia]

Ok,

Assuming that your nice Sony player isn't at fault at all (could be a stretch), it could be:

1. Bad authoring
2. Bad burning software
3. Bad burning hardware
4. Burning conflicts
5. Bad burning media
6. Media incompatibilities with the burner
7. Media incompatibilities with the player
8. +R/W being good and -R/W being bad

If you'll believe a good deal of the posts on this forum, you should guess that #8 really couldn't be that true.

You guess that #1 isn't true because it seems to be ok with + discs. Well, maybe...

You could check #5, 6, & 7 off your list by getting a small pack (same brand in both types for comparison sake) of EXPENSIVE HIGH QUALITY media. I'm talking Mitsui, Taiyo Yuden, TDK, Maxell, maybe Verbatims. Make sure they're "qualified" as being compatible with both burner and player. You should be able to find sites or docs on the net that list this.

If you have a straight, lean, mean PC machine, you shouldn't have to worry about #4.

You should check the customer support of your burner brand to find any issues that may have come up from other users. (#3) Otherwise, you should let a knowledgeable friend, relative, or nice local DVDRHelp-mate borrow your burner and discs for a few days to try on their system. If they don't have a problem, you will have pretty much narrowed it down to #2 or #1.

While I've not had any trouble with my A04 and Nero, I know some here have. Lots of people seem to recommend RecordNowMax. Get a copy of that. Use a discImage that you know to be verified to be valid (can probably download a miniDVD sample from here). If it burns ok then, you've narrowed it down to authoring.

Oh yeah,
I forgot #9.

It doesn't like you.

There is some chance that it could be a cumulative combination of a number of the above. That's a little harder to deal with.

Good luck and have faith (they really ARE both good formats),
Scott

[jdizzy40]

Wow that was a long subject. I can understand your position but let me add mine. I have 2 Sony Dual format burners, the DRU 500 A and the AX. I have a Sony DVP-NS315 set top DVD Player. I have burned + and - DVD R/RW media using everthing from DVD X Copy Express, Dvd Decrypter, DVD2One, Nero, and DVD Shrink to back up my DVd collection. No problems at all. I use Roxio EZCD 6 to capture from my digital camcorder via firewire and have done so directly (on the fly) to my DVD Writer. The program has some nice features. In the past their product did not fair well. I have also used a host of authoring programs to include Sonic My DVD, DVD IT PE, Adobe Premier, ULead Movie Factory and a few others. I have used more plus media than minus mainly cause before the minus media would write slower. But did not have a bad burn using Verbatim, Fuji, Memorex, Imitation and TDK. What you are trying to burn and how you are trying to do it is still unclear. I hope you stay with it because you will find that sometimes a friends DVD Player will like the minus media better than the plus. But for my use I grab anything on the shelf and don't worry about it. Prices at time are about equal for both. just depends when and where you buy.

[Bob W]

All I can say is a big DUH.

[Contraband75]

Thanks for your help everyone.

I have been to TDK's website several times and been on the phone with them....They blame the burning software. I have tried several differn't burning apps, and none of them seem to work with the -R media. All I get is a disc that nothing can read....not even the PC or burner. I have 2 differnt kinds here, Sony and Memorex, (and a single TDK that came with the burner) and have only gotten one Memorex to burn. This one -R that did burn was using EZcd6 as a data disc. I just added the video_ts folder and files to it.

I would have to skip past the possibility that it's the Sony players fault, just because I can't even make a disc to try on it. I have only been able to make one disc with a -R

I am willing to try out a 3rd brand of discs, and see if that is the problem. If thats not it, then I say the burner is worthless. Of course TDK doesnt have any firmware updates for it yet.....it's too new.

Thanks again.

[txpharoah]

.They blame the burning software. .. using EZcd6 as a data disc. I just added the video_ts folder and files to it....I am willing to try out a 3rd brand of discs, and see if that is the problem. If thats not it, then I say the burner is worthless.

The problems are most likely still you. Seriously, try Nero in DVD-Video mode. It should work. Reinstall/upgrade to the new version from www.ahead.de (5.5.10.35 or whatever it is now). A DVD player doesn't normally read an ISO disc ("data" mode). Quit using Roxio crap for burning DVDs. Their DVD functions are an afterthought. If RecordNow Max and Nero won't work, you've got a system error to figure out.

Do you have good ASPI layers installed?

How about non-standard software from VOB's Instant CD/DVD or DVDXCopy? They tend to render other burning programs impotent.

At best, the burner is broken. Take it back.
At worst, as I've said, it's you. Keep trying.

And are you SURE your players support the DVD-R discs? Some, as silly as it seems, will only read +R or +RW or -RW, although those are in a very tiny minority.

Your media are fine. It's not the discs. It's either hardware (take it back), your system configuration (fix it), or your own lack of knowledge (which can easily be fixed by reading at this site).

[Contraband75]

I do use Nero in video mode, thats what I burn the +R discs in. The only reason I tried ezcd (since it came with the burner) is because I had tried many other apps and thats the only one I hadn't tried. I agree that EZcd is crap, especially since Adaptec sold it to Roxio. But, it is the only one that hasnt given me an error before it starts to burn.

When I try Nero in video mode, or UDF (various versions of UDF) I get that disc at once error. But if I use a +R, it works fine. Thats what confuses me. It's not a lack of the player playing them, its a problem with the app not even begining the burning process. The program reconizes the disc type and speed, tells me if its blank or not. But I just can't burn to it.

I also have the latest version of Nero. I made sure of that, and also tried some older ones that supported DVD.

I am going to try some other burning apps tonight and see whats up.
Thanks again.

[Cornucopia]

Update from what I suggested earlier-

For goodness sake, you certainly shouldn't stand or fall with Memorex as your guide (or even Sony)! Get some GREAT quality discs. That's the only way you can take that major variable out of the equation. A whole methodology of troubleshooting is to minimize the unpredictable variables.

Your mention of "Invalid Disc At Once" tells me that either your burn settings are wrong/incompatible-with-other-settings or your system has conflicts (particularly with ASPI?) or burner driver bugs, or your burner actually IS bad.
I have a Pioneer A04 that works great, except it unexpectedly, yet regularly, will not let you burn CD's in Disc-At-Once. It gives a similar message. After lots of testing and roundabout tracking, my solution was to skip it altogether and get a separate CD burner. Now everything works great. I didn't really buy the drive for CD's in the 1st place.

Scott

p.s. What OS are you using? Have you tried an alternative boot?

[rkr1958]

I've burned 10's of thousands (if not 100's of thousands) of discs since the Pioneer 103 came out in 2001.

My Goodness! 100,000 DVD-R discs! That's impressive! How much do you spend for DVD-Rs each month?

[jdizzy40]

I think they count different in Texas, they must use those big texans with 10 toes per foot. Ha just kidding. Nothing like overstating ones capabilities. Sounded impressive until you stop and think?

[solarfox]

10,000 discs since the burner came out in 2001, works out to between 13 and 14 discs per day... which is just do-able on a single PC, if you're either using 2X media or working 16-hour days.

Or if, as seems more likely in TxPharaoh's case, you're using multiple burners at once to turn out small-production runs of identical discs.

[Confederate]

Contraband75: Have you checked to see if there are any firmware updates for your TDK? Try ftp://www.tdk.com/software/FW0404N_106.exe
to get version 1.06. They may have later versions out. I suspect that will fix your problem.

John

[ryn05]

step 1: Uninstall that crappy ezcd software, that sh*t only messes things up.

step 2: uninstall nero that u have now and download the free trial of 5.5.10.42 or whatever the newest one is...if you have a registered version, try to upgrade after u unistall step 1.

step 3: Download dvdshrink and imgtool (this program uses the nero burning engine)....try to backup a movie using the guide found here... www.mrbass.org

step 4: Let us know if it worked, if not, then take that piece of crap burner back and get a NEC 1300 (burns - and +) for 160 USD at avlogic.com

[Confederate]

Just curious. Why does Easy CD Creator have such a bad name? I've used it for years with no problems whatsoever except that copies of music CD songs sometimes get clipped.

Everything else functions about as well as anyone could expect. So what makes Nero superior?

Confederate

[Bob W]

Never use EZcd 6 to make a DVD, the stupid program won't close out of finalize the DVD so the disc will never play in most players.

[solarfox]

Why does Easy CD Creator have such a bad name? I've used it for years with no problems whatsoever except that copies of music CD songs sometimes get clipped.

Everything else functions about as well as anyone could expect. So what makes Nero superior?

You just answered your own question, I think. I've never had audio-CD tracks get clipped off when using Nero.

Nero has also had VideoCD and SVCD-burning capabilities, including menu-making, for quite a while longer than EZCD, so it's probably the one that most people on this site gravitated towards and have been using for a lot longer.

[FulciLives]

Well ...

One of the most simple and yet effective DVD burning programs would be DVD DECRYPTER. So as a test I would select a DVD5 disc (single layer) and RIP it in ISO mode (with DVD DECRYPTER) then burn it to a DVD-R using DVD DECRYPTER. That is about as simple as it gets. If that doesn't work then you have some serious problems. Either the TDK DVD BURNER is bad or you have some sort of HARDWARE CONFLICT.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
As far as QUALITY media goes ... you can't go wrong with either FUJI or MAXELL. I've bought both of these at BEST BUY for reasonable prices. They come in a 10 pack for around $25

[indolikaa]

I can only offer the following suggestions, from my own experiences.

* TDK recorders suck.
* TDK "tech support" sucks harder.

TDK blames everything on the software. First they tried to blame the problem on EZ CD Creator. Until I told them, "hey dipshits, this drive came bundled with Nero!" This was a CD burner, mind you. I can't imagine how much fun that basket of braincells would be with a dual-format DVD burner. They're as bad as Dazzle.

Return the drive. Your the customer. You deserve better.