DVD+R or DVD-R What's the Diff?

[Redd]

I'm using a Sony DRU500AX. So far I've burned a dozen disks all DVD+R. I'm not using +R for any particular reason, just went with +R due to lack of knowledge. I did look to see what media would be most compatible with my or any stand-alone DVD players. Both +R and -R were shown to have 80%+ compatibility with stand alone players.

Reading this forum it seems that there is a preference towards -R media. Why is that. What's the diff between +R and -R blank media? I'm able to burn both so which is best?

Thanks,
Redd

[ipgpe13]

I would like to know also. I have not seen any definitive answers here at all.

I too have been only burning DVD+R on my Sony DRX 500 ULX. Burnt my first DVD-R yesterday and I found no difference in quality or compatability with any of my DVD players.

[tgpo]

They are just two different formats. Information on this site.

DVD-R
DVD-Recordable defines a standard for recordable DVD drives and media defined by the DVD Forum. Often called "minus R", the format is write once (compared to DVD-RW wich can be erased and rewritten). The single sided discs can hold 4,700,000,000 bytes (4.38 Gigabytes at 1024 bytes to the kilobyte) with double sided discs holding twice as much. There are no dual layer single sided recordable discs. This format competes with the DVD+R format. DVDRhelp DVDR information

DVD+R
DVD+Recordable defines a standard for recordable DVD drives and media defined by the DVDRW Alliance. Often called "plus R", the format is write once (compared to DVD+RW wich can be erased and rewritten). The single sided discs can hold 4,700,000,000 bytes (4.38 Gigabytes at 1024 bytes to the kilobyte) with double sided discs holding twice as much. There are no dual layer single sided recordable discs. This format competes with the DVD Forum DVD-R specification. DVDRhelp DVDR information

DVD-R and DVD-RW
DVD-R/W was the first DVD recording format released that was compatible with standalone DVD Players.
DVD-R is a non-rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 89% of all DVD Players and DVD-ROMs.
DVD-RW is a rewriteable format and it is compatible with about 72% of all DVD Players and DVD-ROMs.
DVD-R/W supports single side 4.7 GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double side 9.4 GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
These formats are supported by DVDForum.

DVD+R and DVD+RW
DVD+R/W has some better features than DVD-R/W such as lossless linking and both CAV and CLV writing.
DVD+R is a non-rewritable format and it is compatible with about 83% of all DVD Players and DVD-ROMs.
DVD+RW is a rewritable format and is compatible with about 72% of all DVD Players and DVD-ROMs.
DVD+R/W supports single side 4.7 GB* DVDs(called DVD-5) and double side 9.4 GB* DVDs(called DVD-10).
These formats are supported by the DVD+RW Alliance.

[version20]

The main difference is one has a plus in front of it, and the other has a minus. Sometimes -r media is cheaper and that is probably a large portion of why it is favored on this forum. Odd considering the average user on this forum appears to own 3 or 4 different dvd authoring software titles generally adding up to well over $3000

The difference in +r/-r will not have anything to do with the quality of your video. In the end they are both just storage media. Quality is completely on your capture/conversion process.

The only real concern you should have is, which one works for you. If +r discs play on your standalone player, and -r doesnt, then you have your answer as to which is better.

-v20

[orbital517]

The reason why most people prefer the -R format on this forum is because it is cheaper if you order it online, but If you were to walk into any retail store (best buy, circuit city, comp usa, etc...), then both formats are the same price. It just all depends on which format works best on your standalone player. If you've been happy with the +R format, then go for it........simple as that.

[tgpo]

I don't know about ya'll, but I see more DVD-R burners coming in prebuilt computers than I do DVD+Rs. Plus Apple Computers come with DVD-R burners. My standalone will only accept DVD-R media, thus I go with it. Plus it's fun fighting with the Best Buy people about what media type I need. Usually they tell me something stupid, like Mac's can't handle DVD-Rs or other random things.

The Moral of the story: Don't Do Crack, if you do only Best Buy will hire you.

[VR-HOS]

I think if your writer supports both formats use -R cos it's cheap and use +RW cos it's faster 8) 8) 8) 8)

[Trenton_Net]

Here is what I don't get. DVD-Rs are sold all over the world as the most popular and previlent media standard for DVD Recording. On the other hand, DVD+Rs can hardly be found outside north amarica, and only has a marketable presence in the US (And maybe Canada). So why on earth would anyone want to buy a DVD+R Drive?!? Beats me! Even organized crime (When not using factory grade equipment) use DVD-Rs to make pirate DVDs.

[steveknj]

In doing research for the purchase of MY DVD burner (I ended up with a Backpack External DVD+RW), I found that 90% of the NEW burners being sold now are using the +RW format as opposed to the -RW. Given that criteria, I went with the + figuring that the obsolescne factor will be less, and the price on the media will drop. Actually, I think when one format "wins" the war, the other side will sue for peace and there will be one standard. Same thing that happened in the modem world when 56K modems came out (Kflex vs. X2). The formats were merged into V.90. Give it a year or two for that to happen, now that DVD burners are becoming mainstream.

[erzug]

I've got a question: Why didn't double sided DVD+R discs ever come out as competition for the DVD-R DS equivalents?

[da_playa]

I posted this question before and is relevant to this subject, but got no satisfactory answer. I could surf the web and find the answer, but I might as well tap into collective wisdom of this group.

I've been burning +R on my 500ULX and they work fine on my PS2, but Xbox didn't like 'em, so I tried copying +R into -R, and made 4 coasters right away using 4 different methods - recordnow copy, decrypter iso copy, cd creator copy, and rip and burn with copy2dvd. Not media issue as both +R and -R are verbatim and they usually burn fine. Some invalid data write mode at around 1gig to 1.2 gig. Then I copied to +R and it works fine. This happened in a couple of discs, so I stopped trying to copy +R to -R altogether...

I know there are differences in how these two media work, but can someone explain why this copy would fail? Inquiring mind wants to know...

[Metaluna]

I agree with what most people have been saying: If you're using write once media and making video DVD's, there isn't much practical difference. Use whatever works best for you. Neither one has perfect compatibility with all set-top DVD players and the media quality is about the same for both (the dye formulations are very similar, supposedly). IMHO +R has some slight technical advantages (e.g. lossless linking, high frequency wobble track, etc.) but in practice they really don't make much difference, at least not with current generation drives.

I personally have been using +R simply because I can get 4X brand name media easily at Best Buy for the same price as 2X -R, and the cheap -R media that a lot of people have been using doesn't seem to work as well in the Sony dual-format drives so I don't have that option. However I'd have no problem switching to -R if the situation were reversed.

In a year or so it won't matter. Virtually all new DVD players will support both formats (I just bought a Sony 325 and it explicitly supports +R/RW and -R/RW), and quality media will be cheap and plentiful. Plus, should one or the other format go away, the drives will be cheap enough that upgrading to the "winning" format won't be very painful.

[coyote]

The reason that -r is so prevalent is that it has been around longer. The first ones out of the gate were the -r...then the -rw. Then came +rw to answer problems that were occuring (such as the wobble that has been talked about - plus something else that I haven't understood..that -r and -rw record the info backwards?)

+R then came out because the +RW media was so expensive.

As +r has been around it is becoming more mainstream and more and more players are supporting it.

The original forum for -r were Macintosh, Compaq, and Pioneer while when +r came out their forum had Sony, Philips, HP, and Microsoft.

Wait...now it gets more confusing

Now Compaq got taken over by HP, so now they are in the +R forum. And Microsoft says they are now backing both formats in future releases of Windows.

Technically +R/RW is superior to -R/RW BUT BETAMAX was better than VHS and that made no diff whatsoever.

The media is about the same price now (+r is slightly more expensive but nothing big anymore)

So my advice is go with a burner in your price range with the options you like by a company that you trust. If it is -r so be it.....if it is +r so be it. They are eventually going to have to merge anyway.

And then in 4 or 5 years when blue laser comes down in price we will have to deal with it all over again

[SatStorm]

In US the + media are cheaper.
In Europe, + media cost twice the price of the - media....

BUT, this may change in the future.

Anyway, buy whatever you think is ok. In a 2 years gonna be broken afterall (don't expect a burner last for ever!). So, in a 2 years, go and buy what gonna be the successor.
Meanwhile, both formats gonna be in the market together, and for a long long time...

[Trenton_Net]

In response to steveknj, many people have sited on VCDHELP that the reason why DVD+R seems more prevalent in stores compared to DVD-R is because the DVD-R Drives and stock sell out almost immediately. In fact some users who work in stores indicated that they sell all their DVD-R stock within the very same morning it comes in. I've talked with a few Canadian retailers and they also state similar results.

Regarding systems like the PS2 not reading DVDs, I find that such consoles are usually picky regarding media since most of its drives revolve around some sort of copy protection to protect games with. In the case of the PS2, I think most users state you need to use a DVD-RW or dark color DVD in order to get it to work. But because the drives in consoles very, you can get diffrent results. Which is why an Xbox can read one kind of media, while an xbox down the street can't.

But in general, while most DVDs made for the US do support DVD+R, companies like Microsoft have started to change their policies (Such as now including DVD-R into windows) due to the fact that it can't be ignored anymore since it is already adopted all around the world as the general standard.

In fact, this has caused some debate within the related groups since companies which were once aligned strictly with DVD+R format only are now producing dual purpose units in the face of mounting losses against DVD-R. As you can assume, it doesn't look very good when the format you are trying to promote is being overtaken around the world so that members of your own group need to incorporate support for competing products.

[txpharoah]

I think if your writer supports both formats use -R cos it's cheap and use +RW cos it's faster 8) 8) 8) 8)

They are both 4x.

In general, +R is for data. That's what it was made for being optimized to do.

In general, -R is for video. That's what is was made for being optimized to do.

Do they do both? Yes.

Is -R media more compatible on MORE DVD players? Yes.

Is -R media cheaper? Online, yes. In stores, maybe, maybe not.

Do I care which one you buy? No.

Is a multi-burner better? No. The cost for a single -R/+R drive is about the same price as buying a -R and a +R drive separately. I'm sure somebody can find a nice deal that makes this somewhat untrue, but in general, that's how it is right now.

If you want the history of these drives and their functions, go visit the -R DVD Forum (www.dvdforum.com) and the +R DVD Alliance (www.dvdrw.com). Get the word from the horses mouth.

Know that DVD-R is the official media for DVD-Video, as prescribed by the good folks that own the DVD logo.

[rhegedus]

I think if your writer supports both formats use -R cos it's cheap and use +RW cos it's faster 8) 8) 8) 8)

They are both 4x.

4x +RW? Have I been asleep?

Is a multi-burner better? No. The cost for a single -R/+R drive is about the same price as buying a -R and a +R drive separately. I'm sure somebody can find a nice deal that makes this somewhat untrue, but in general, that's how it is right now.

Not sure about that. Maybe here in the UK there isn't a premium on multi-burners. The NEC ND-1300A is about £220 - to get a +R and -R separately, you're looking at just over £110 a go which isn't possible (yet.....). Even when I bought my Sony DRU-500 for £280 in November, the Pioneer A04 and Philips 228 were about £200 a piece.

Has anyone found a burner that breaks the magic $100/£100 barrier yet?

[LanEvo7]

Not sure about that. Maybe here in the UK there isn't a premium on multi-burners. The NEC ND-1300A is about £220 - to get a +R and -R separately, you're looking at just over £110 a go which isn't possible (yet.....). Even when I bought my Sony DRU-500 for £280 in November, the Pioneer A04 and Philips 228 were about £200 a piece.

Its like that in the U.S. also. You can get the NEC 1300A for around $220 OEM. You can get a Cendyne dvr-105(pioneer a05) for about $150 or the Cendyne +R(don't know what company) for around the same price.

I've read rumors about the NEC stating that its very picky about the media though. Don't know if its true though. [/quote]

[rhegedus]

Sorry to veer off topic again, but I didn't want to post a new thread just for this.

Seems like we pay in £ what you pay $. Grrrrrrrrrrr

I even noticed this on the Norton/Symanted website for download purchases - does it cost more to download across the Atlantic???

Where can I get a green card from...................?

[pablo180]

Trenton_Net wrote;

Here is what I don't get. DVD-Rs are sold all over the world as the most popular and previlent media standard for DVD Recording. On the other hand, DVD+Rs can hardly be found outside north america, and only has a marketable presence in the US (And maybe Canada). So why on earth would anyone want to buy a DVD+R Drive?!? Beats me!

In the UK you can walk into just about any electrical (ie Dixons, Comet etc) and pick up a Phillips DVD+R disk no trouble. In fact they seem to be the ones that I see the most in stores. Come to think of it I have bought one from my local supermarket so they must be fairly wide spread outside the US. If they sell them like this in the UK I would assume it is a pretty similar story throughout Europe.

DVD's that I have made with IFO EDIT, CCE and burned with DVD Decrypter have worked fine in a PS2. They have been +R though but I have used everything from a Phillips disk to a dirt cheap Zero Defex disk!
Haven't tried them in an XBOX though.

I heard that one of the differences between DVD-R and DVD+R was that with a -R disk once any information was written to it the disk couldn't be written to again. However with a DVD+R disk it was like a CD and you could leave the session open and keep adding to it. Is this true or was someone feeding me a line?

[vric]

the main difference is the price.. +R media are twice the price of a -R media. also PS2 and Xbox don't really like +R media

[Northstar]

I must be missing something here with "- media is cheaper than + media" where do you people shop ffs, we are talking pennys/cents/whatever in difference, not pounds/dollars/whatever, some people should look around instead of going to pc world to buy blank media, one thing about cheap - media is most of it is pretty crappy, whereas ive not had any probs with cheap + media (which happens to be the same price as the best cheapo - media).

Also this "- is more compatible with dvd players than + is" , we are talking about old dvd players here, and even some - disk have probs with older players, nearly all newer dvd players have no problem with either format.

I think the dual format is here to stay as neither will back down, so your gonna have a choice which media to buy.

All these arguments which is better is pointless, just get what works for you and you'll be happy, get something that dosent and youll be sad, as they say 'the choice is yours', if you buy crap then you can expect crap.

[vric]

I must be missing something here with "- media is cheaper than + media" where do you people shop ffs, we are talking pennys/cents/whatever in difference, not pounds/dollars/whatever, some people should look around instead of going to pc world to buy blank media, one thing about cheap - media is most of it is pretty crappy, whereas ive not had any probs with cheap + media (which happens to be the same price as the best cheapo - media).

Also this "- is more compatible with dvd players than + is" , we are talking about old dvd players here, and even some - disk have probs with older players, nearly all newer dvd players have no problem with either format.

I think the dual format is here to stay as neither will back down, so your gonna have a choice which media to buy.

All these arguments which is better is pointless, just get what works for you and you'll be happy, get something that dosent and youll be sad, as they say 'the choice is yours', if you buy crap then you can expect crap.

In Canada.. Ritek Disk have a difference of 1$ each.. and for what I have seen, in the US, you can't find +R media lower than 1.60$

Also, costco have Maxell disk in pack of 4. -R are 12$CND and +R are 16$. Futureshop are both 22$ but they are ripoff

so it's 1$ each praticly everywhere in Canada. ok 1$ is not much.. but buy a 50 or a 100 DVD spindle..

[bizeebee]

I'm confused. Is it being stated here that you can burn -R discs in a +R writer and vice versa? I know you can use either one in a +/- writer. Or am I just totally lost? Please clear me up on this subject. thanks

[da_playa]

This particular thread is for:
1) those who own dual format writers like Sony DRU500 or other new +- writers from various vendors
2) those who have not decided which format burner to buy
3) those who already bought one format drive, therefore already locked into one format, but like to impose their view on others...

I'm sure that commoditization of dvdr media will happen soon, like cdr. Nobody cares about brand of cdr's anymore; they are all pretty much the same...

[LanEvo7]

one thing about cheap - media is most of it is pretty crappy, whereas ive not had any probs with cheap + media (which happens to be the same price as the best cheapo - media).

It all depends on what you buy. Some inexpensive -R media is indeed crappy. There are some that will work as well as or better than Branded -R media. The only inexpensive +r media I've seen is the Ritek brand +R and that costs about 50% more than the Ritek -R counterpart.

[sidewinder33625]

As far as I'm concerned there is absolutely no difference in terms of compatibility with settop players wether its a PLUS or a MINUS. The end result is identical wether its a + or -.

Let me explain, back in the days of CDRs(whew don't technology move fast) there were cases upon cases where people would burn music CDRs and it would not play on certain home/car CD players. This even though there was only one standard. The main reason why music CDRs would not play on certain players is due to the combination of the burner/media/player used and NOT the standard(there is only one).

Same concept applies to DVDs. I think the formats(+,-) have very little if anything to do with wether it plays on your settop. Variables such as media quality(huge variable), differences in the burner(laser, mechanism, calibration etc..etc..) and the diferences in the player(optics, mechanisms, calibrations, etc.etc) have A LOT more to do with wether the burned DVD plays in your player. Even with one variable, you will get different results. Now combine these variables and the differences in the end result(burned DVD) can be huge. The point is when a + or a - media does not play on your player, you can't automatically assume that is due to the format.

[rhegedus]

Same concept applies to DVDs. I think the formats(+,-) have very little if anything to do with wether it plays on your settop. Variables such as media quality(huge variable), differences in the burner(laser, mechanism, calibration etc..etc..) and the diferences in the player(optics, mechanisms, calibrations, etc.etc) have A LOT more to do with wether the burned DVD plays in your player. Even with one variable, you will get different results. Now combine these variables and the differences in the end result(burned DVD) can be huge. The point is when a + or a - media does not play on your player, you can't automatically assume that is due to the format.

If that's true, then -R and +R top quality (say Verbatim) disks, burned on the same system with the same software, should both play on all set top players.

I can't test the theory since I've only got one player now, but when I had a Wharfdale 750s it absolutely refused to play the Philips +RW disks (DISK ERROR message) that I made with my Sony DRU 500. The same disks work perfectly in the JVC XV-S300BK that I bought to replace it. Same +RW disks, same burner, same software, same PC. It did however play Verbatim -R disks, so it was capable of playing home burned DVDs, just not the +RW format.

Therefore - or + does make a difference.

[sidewinder33625]

Same concept applies to DVDs. I think the formats(+,-) have very little if anything to do with wether it plays on your settop. Variables such as media quality(huge variable), differences in the burner(laser, mechanism, calibration etc..etc..) and the diferences in the player(optics, mechanisms, calibrations, etc.etc) have A LOT more to do with wether the burned DVD plays in your player. Even with one variable, you will get different results. Now combine these variables and the differences in the end result(burned DVD) can be huge. The point is when a + or a - media does not play on your player, you can't automatically assume that is due to the format.

If that's true, then -R and +R top quality (say Verbatim) disks, burned on the same system with the same software, should both play on all set top players.

I can't test the theory since I've only got one player now, but when I had a Wharfdale 750s it absolutely refused to play the Philips +RW disks (DISK ERROR message) that I made with my Sony DRU 500. The same disks work perfectly in the JVC XV-S300BK that I bought to replace it. Same +RW disks, same burner, same software, same PC. It did however play Verbatim -R disks, so it was capable of playing home burned DVDs, just not the +RW format.

Therefore - or + does make a difference.

Again, wether a player will play a Verbatim + or - depends on the player. RWs are a different story. Far more players support R than RW.

[SLK001]

Both disks use a wobble groove in their data tracks to allow the write laser to properly track. The DVD+R's only has a wobble groove, which is about 817kHz. The high frequency sine wave recovered from the groove becomes the source of the address info for the +R and +RW, which is how they can get the "lossless linking" on the files recorded to the disk. The system can get them matched up to the wavelength to avoid corrupting the files.

A DVD-R disk has land pre-pits in its wobble groove (much lower freqency). The lower frequency wobble doesn't lend itself too well to lossless linking (it's much harder to find out exactly where the laser left off).

The DVD-R is more difficult to manufacturer than the DVD+R because of the land pre-pits. They require a double beam laser when the mold master is made. The DVD+R only has the high frequency wobble to cut, and that can be cut into the mold with a single laser beam.