352x480 (NTSC) frame size for DVD

[ktnwin]

I read from this site that 352x480(NTSC) is a valid DVD resolution.
My intention is to use TMPGEnc to encode my DV files (captured from VHS tapes via Digcam) with this 352x480 resolution for a few reasons:
1) 720x480 is overkill for VHS tapes, they start at lower resolution any way
2) at 352x480, I can use a lower bit rate (average 3000 to 3500 kbps) and still obtain excellent quality (with 720x480, I need at least 6000 to 7000).
3) the resulting file size will be much smaller and I can fit more video time on a single DVD-R.

Here are some questions:
1) does anyone already did this using TMPGEnd ? do you have a template you can share with me ? I would be really grateful since it will save me lot of time
2) TMPGEnc will generate MP2 audio, how do I convert this into AC3 ? Any special care needed for 44.1KHz to 48Khz sampling rate ?

Helps are greatly appreciated.

[j1d10t]

If you're planning on putting these on CD, make sure your DVD player will play them - not all DVD players will play CVD's on CD. If you're planning on burning them to DVD, then ignore the rest of my post If your player will play CVD's, I'd recommend using the SVCD template in TMPGEnc, and changing the resolution to 352x480. I've even found that you don't have to have the bitrate up to 3000 - 3500, you can stick with SVCD bitrates and get a really, really good picture, and that way you can fit more on a CD/DVD. You can also get some good CVD templates at www.kvcd.net.

[j1d10t]

I just realized you wanted to put them on a DVD-R. Duh. Sorry. But you can still find some good CVD templates at www.kvcd.net - some are MPG1, and some are MPG2, but changing the MPG1 to MPG2 gives you the same results.

[txpharoah]

I read from this site that 352x480(NTSC) is a valid DVD resolution.
My intention is to use TMPGEnc to encode my DV files (captured from VHS tapes via Digcam) with this 352x480 resolution for a few reasons:
1) 720x480 is overkill for VHS tapes, they start at lower resolution any way
2) at 352x480, I can use a lower bit rate (average 3000 to 3500 kbps) and still obtain excellent quality (with 720x480, I need at least 6000 to 7000).
3) the resulting file size will be much smaller and I can fit more video time on a single DVD-R.

Here are some questions:
1) does anyone already did this using TMPGEnd ? do you have a template you can share with me ? I would be really grateful since it will save me lot of time
2) TMPGEnc will generate MP2 audio, how do I convert this into AC3 ? Any special care needed for 44.1KHz to 48Khz sampling rate ?

Helps are greatly appreciated.

I do this all the time, but I have no need for templates. Read the guide in my signature. Much of what I do is similar to this guide, in respects to the TMPGenc settings.

[Vejita-sama]

Audio wise you have two choices. You can encode to mpeg1 layer II audio at 48khz in TMPGenc and author with that. Although not supported by the DVD standard most players will play it (most not all). Or convert the mp2 file to ac3 with either headac3he or besweet:

http://www.doom9.org/audio-guides.htm

[ktnwin]

Thank you so much for all the helps.
I will give this a try tonight. I already tried to load the MPEG-2 (352x480) into neoDVD but this software re-encode it back to 720x480 and defeats my purpose. I will use a different software to author my MPEG-2 file.

[digitalguy1127]

Hey, I am thinking of doing the same thing! Let us know what DVD software you find to accept those CVD files as-is, OK?

[ktnwin]

I got the M2V file and AC3 with all the helps I got here. The MPEG-2 file size is half the size (since the bit rate is halved 3000 instead of 6000).
Here are what I did:
1) capture into DV AVI file
2) use TMPGEnc , with my old SVCD template modified for 352x480 (instead of 480x480). Encode video only
3) use TMPGenc, encode audio only to MPEG-1 layer II, 48KHz sampling rate, bitrate 224.
4) use BeSweet (via AC3Machine) to convert MP2 to AC3 file (same sampling and bit rates)

On the PC, the M2V video look perfect, no artifact or discoloring.

Does anyone know a DVD authoring software what accept 352x480 MPEG-2 files without re-encoding ? DVD lab, TMPGEnc Author ?etc...

I know neoDVD will re-encode for sure. Have not tried PS8 but I am pretty sure it will.



Thanks

[tphaggerty]

Ulead MF2 and TMPGenc DVDAuthor will as well as Ulead DVD Workshop. You just have to setup the template correctly to prevent the authoring package from reencoding. This normally involves selecting the right template, plus selecting a "do not reencode compliant MPEG" type checkoff.

I started off doing what you are trying to do. Depending on how much "reserve" your authoring package needs, you can encode at between 4600 to 4700 AVG bitrate using VBR for a 2 hour DVD regardless of whether you encode to 352x480 or 720x480 (704 x 480 is also valid). You should mask off the overscan area.

I found that no matter how I tried, I could not get TMPGenc, MainConcept encoder or CCE basic to create a 2 hour DVD without some artifacting somewhere in the stream. I bit the bullet and bought Procoder (very expensive) and so far it is doing fine, especially for DV AVI source. I have found that with ProCoder, it doesn't make any difference going down to 352x480 vs 720x480 at the 4700avg bitrate, so I just stick with 720x480 (but I use AVISynth 2.5 to recenter the video, put a light grey mask over the overscan and use the UnDot filter to remove little "flicks" from the source).

[ktnwin]

I used reelDVD (first time) to author the m2v and ac3 I mentioned in previous posts. I just use my m2v as the first play item, TITLE and MENU button are also linked to theis m2v. Then burn the VIDEO_TS folder with Nero Express.
The DVD disc played correct on the computer with powerDVD, but my Pioneer 343 DVD player behaves strangely: the video is displayed but frozen, pressing >> causing video to move forward, play a few seconds without sound then freezes again.
Don't know what happen here.
Has anyone got this kind of problem: PC plays but not DVD players.

[spidey]

Pioneers do not like Nero burns. I have the same issue - In nero, you make a choice off a menu, and it'll lock up - same BS you have had; however, yes, it will play fine on a pc's software player.

I author in Sonic DVD Producer v 3.1.1, then burn the TS directories out in Prassi Primo DVD.

Never had any problems at all. I'd strongly recommend Prassi.

[joepic]

The DVD disc played correct on the computer with powerDVD, but my Pioneer 343 DVD player behaves strangely: the video is displayed but frozen, pressing >> causing video to move forward, play a few seconds without sound then freezes again.
Don't know what happen here.
Has anyone got this kind of problem: PC plays but not DVD players.

ktnwin

Us Pioneer players need to stick together. You need to follow the following threads to see that you are not alone:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158261

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157733

[Fred©]

I just realized you wanted to put them on a DVD-R....

(this is your goal)...

Well, mine is to put a valid DVD movie (same specs than yours) into a CD media, and play in my Nintaus N-9901 dvd player....

Is that possible?

(I dont have DVD burner yet )

Fred©

[j1d10t]

Fred©:
Try going to www.kvcd.net and check out the templates there - they have some that will put about 90 minutes on an 80 minute CD. If you want to fit more on the CD you can just change the bitrate/CQ settings. Then for burning, just burn them as a non-standard VCD or SVCD depending on if it's MPEG1 or MPEG2.

[txpharoah]

Pioneers do not like Nero burns. I have the same issue - In nero, you make a choice off a menu, and it'll lock up - same BS you have had; however, yes, it will play fine on a pc's software player.

I author in Sonic DVD Producer v 3.1.1, then burn the TS directories out in Prassi Primo DVD.

Never had any problems at all. I'd strongly recommend Prassi.

Try the new Nero 5.5.10.20

[Fred©]

Fred©:
Try going to www.kvcd.net and check out the templates there - they have some that will put about 90 minutes on an 80 minute CD. If you want to fit more on the CD you can just change the bitrate/CQ settings. Then for burning, just burn them as a non-standard VCD or SVCD depending on if it's MPEG1 or MPEG2.

Well, as I speak portuguese, I think I made not myself clear... Kwags website is for XVCD... I want to create mini-DVD and put it into a CD-ROM media, not DVD media... BUT, in fact, it will not be a mini-DVD, because I want to use the same resolutions as the topic reports.

I mean, I want to burn a REAL HALF D1 DVD into a CD-ROM media... I know I will get about only 30 min in 700 MB, but is that possible?

Fred©

[kwag]

I think I made not myself clear... Kwags website is for XVCD...

Not really

I want to create mini-DVD and put it into a CD-ROM media, not DVD media... BUT, in fact, it will not be a mini-DVD, because I want to use the same resolutions as the topic reports.

Then use the KDVD Half D-1 template
You should be able to put WAY over an hour at 352x480 on a CD-R burned as CDVD

-kwag

[j1d10t]

Kwag da man! His templates are the best. You're going to get the best looking picture you can get from those templates. I wouldn't even bother trying to mess around with the DVD templates in TMPGEnc - you could just change the resolution and bit rate for the DVD template(s) in TMPGEnc, but you won't get the same quality picture. If you're looking for a program to burn them to CD as miniDVD's, Have you tried Nero? Or Ulead DVD workshop, or Movie Factory?

[Fred©]

[/quote]
Then use the KDVD Half D-1 template
You should be able to put WAY over an hour at 352x480 on a CD-R burned as CDVD

-kwag[/quote]

Well, kwag, I apologize, cause last time I visit your website there was no DVD templates... But, can you help me to find if my DVD player Suzuky N-9901 (a Nintaus N-9901) can play your templates ?

Thanks a lot,

Fred©

[kwag]

Hi Fred©,

If you are refering to KDVD templates, of course they will play on your player
The KDVD templates are set to create standard MPEG-2 DVD compliant streams. The difference to the standard TMPEG DVD templates (or any other MPEG-2 encoder creating DVD compliant streams) and ours is that we set our templates with our KVCD "Notch" Q. Matrix. That's what makes the big difference in both size and quality

-kwag

[Fred©]

Tnks guys,

I will give a trye in kwags templates...

Bye,

Fred©

[RWANDREWS]

As far as AUDIO encoding for AC3 goes, DO NOT encode first to MP3 then to AC3 as you are compressing an already compressed audio file, & therefore will lose quality. Since you are starting with an AVI file, choose the PCM audio format in TMPGEnc, then convert to AC3 with BeSweet or other.

I find that 3000 to 3500 bit rate at 352x480 for VHS to be indistinguishable on TV output from higher bitrates.

Why don't you run some 5 min tests with various settings? You could burn to a CD to save $. Use the same vid clip of course and just vary 1 aspect of your process at a time.

There are so many variables with your equiptment, etc, that any advice here is only a starting point.

[ktnwin]

Thanks for so many advises here.
One thing to clarify: I have used Nero Express to burn 100+ DVD-R (with or without menus) successfully. I always used authoring software to create the VIDEO_TS folder then use Nero Express to burn it.
The problem I had with my new process:
AVI->(352x480)MPEG-2->M2V and AC3 -> VIDEO_TS
I will try to play around again to see which part is causing the problem.
Maybe it's the 352x480 ??? I am ordering 25 DVD-RWs for various experiments.

[kenmo]

The DVD disc played correct on the computer with powerDVD, but my Pioneer 343 DVD player behaves strangely: the video is displayed but frozen, pressing >> causing video to move forward, play a few seconds without sound then freezes again.
Don't know what happen here.
Has anyone got this kind of problem: PC plays but not DVD players.

ktnwin

Us Pioneer players need to stick together. You need to follow the following threads to see that you are not alone:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=158261

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157733

My Pioneer DV333 plays Nero burnt DVD-Rs flawlessly ! No Problems here ...

[SHS]

I do this all time with my WinTV-PVR 250
Ulead DVD MovieFactory 2.1 SE
Video Bitrate 2500/3000VBR AudioBitrate 224 at 48KHz
I get 6 episodes per disk
I'm using Sony DRU-500AX and DVD+R disk
With show like Babylon5, Stargate SG-1, etc, etc

[ktnwin]

Hi kenmo,
I did read those two threads (and post my response in one of them).
I realized that sterro AC3 generated by BeSweet is not compatible with the Pioneer DVD players in general.
I will try a different approach.

[ktnwin]

just an update (already posted in different threads).
I am now able to fit 3 hours video on a single DVD-R at 352x480 resolution and about 3200 kbps with excellent quality.
One disc (2 hours, 4700 kbps) look exactly like the original VHS tape and I would say this is DVD quality (shown on 65" HDTV screen).
Happy man

[tommyoz]

I notice a lot of talk about VHS as the source. How about with TV captured files? Does it work ok with these files as well?

[ktnwin]

Hi tommyoz,
I never captured from the TV channel so I cannot speak for others. However, in my case, since I configure my system as follows:

VCR -----> Dig8cam ----------> PC
........RCA.................Firewire

and since the VCR can capture from TV antenna, there would be no difference for me (everything is captured as DV AVI, that's the nice thing about Dig8cam as passthru).