Blairs Mistake

[d4n13l]

Is it only me that noticed Tony Blair's "mistake" in his speech the other day? Just HOW exactly did the US stand by Britain during the Blitz? They werent even IN the war then, it wasnt until Pearl Harbour that they entered the war. The American public sympathised with Britain, but they were against going to war.
I bet that George "W.W.W." Bush doesnt even know any different! In fact, I think he has only just realised that there are countries asides from the USA in this world.

[ember]

The US were our staunchest (probably only) ally in '39- providing supplies even though they were not at war with Germany. Although I must agree that Blair's constant "we are now united as we were back then" rhetoric may be misconstrued by the US public as subtle piss-taking.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ember on 2001-09-21 13:31:53 ]</font>

[d4n13l]

I would agree with you on technicality.
I know that they provided us with weapons etc. via places such as Canada - But 'shoulder to shoulder' it wasnt. They were somewhat reluctantly drawn into the war by Japan in late 1941.
They certainly didnt jump at the chance to be allies as Blair has done, citing reasons such as "The Blitz".

[speedy]

Let me be blunt. All civilized countires are in this together. Either we stand united or what happened in New York may spread to YOUR country. How some Brits still seem to hold a gruge or attempt to rewrite history over events 60 years ago which I'm guessing the authors of weren't even alive at the time is amazing. Blair did what leaders of all Western democracies did, close ranks. That's shoulder to shoulder for all the clueless morons like d4n13l.

[Dissin-Tree]

Yes but you have to remember Tony's Dad, Lionel did really entertain us down the underground with his dazzling song and dance routines, they were great days during the war.... I remember when all this use to be fields you know.....

[ember]

London underground was never the same after that american werewolf went on the loose....

[d4n13l]

Speedy,
What happened in NY DOES happen in my country! Terrorism -ever heard of the IRA? What, the penny finally drops? You understand terrorism now? Did you know that the US is the main source of fianance for the IRA? No? Isnt that ironic: The US finance terrorists.
Now, with regards to what I said:
I dont hold a grudge, in fact I welcome the move made by Blair. I wasnt really being derogatory towards the US (OK, OK, Maybe toward G "dubya" Bush, but not the US as a nation). The point I was getting at was, that *DURING THE BLITZ* (do you know what The Blitz actually was?) the US did not unite with us (as in fight with us), Blair leads us to believe that they fought alongside us during that period. But, let me guess, you dont even know what The Blitz was. And why would I want to rewrite history, we won the war.
I am wholeheartedly FOR the coalation in every respect, its a pity that it takes an event like this to take place for it to happen.
If you didnt let emotions cloud your judgement then you wouldnt have jumped in feet first. Recent events are completly irrelavent with respect to my initial post; Blair was the one who coloured history, I made a remark about that - I in no way condemn Blair's stance on recent events.
______________________________
Now listen to a true master...

T says:
"Pointin out hypocrisy is no crime, sucka!"
"Now stop jibba jabberin! An' if yo' dont, gonna break you fool, 'cos Im helluva tough!"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2001-09-21 16:33:03 ]</font>

[speedy]

D4n13l said "What happened in NY DOES happen in my country!"

Really? Which twin 110 story buildings with 6,000 civilians inside did you lose to terroists in the UK? What the IRA has done in decades of terror doesn't even begin to approach the damage and body count of the WTC disaster.

Your remarks WERE derogatory and insulting to this American! In addition to Blair lending support by standing shoulder to shoulder I'm sure he came here in part because the UK by news reports I've seen lost over 200 citizens when those building collapsed. Blair was paying your fallen citizens respect.

This is not the time to dig up WWII and what the U. S. and the UK did or didn't do. Right now nerves are a little raw. Some other time we can discuss for example rumors that still surface that Churchill knew in advance that the Japanese were about to attack Pearl Harbor. The rumor is our president was not informed that British intelligence knew because he knew Roosevelt would then join the war in Europe which of course is what Churchill desperately wanted the U. S. to do.

If anyone is letting emotions cloud judgement it is you. All America is in mourning. Show some respect for the dead. This is hardly the time to dig up events of 60 years ago that obviously still piss you off.

[ember]

speedy- ok - the scale of attack in NY was much greater than any single attack in NI, but that's irrelevent - lives were lost and peoples lives affected over decades(on both sides of the NI fence). It would be derogatory to say that those lives lost were less important just because the sum total was less.
Your country has cracked down on the funding aspect of the IRA and Britain is thankful of that.
As for Pearl Harbor: much evidence to suggest the info was passed to US officials who themselves (bureaucratic errors) failed to warn the people "on the ground" . Also note that many British soldiers died as a consequence of Churchill not informing the generals in certain war zones about impending attacks from Germans: this was to prevent Axis deducing that their codes had been cracked.

d4n14l -
read my post to speedy - noting the fact that US DOES NOT endorse the arms funding of the IRA. You shouldn't be patronising about the Blitz: most Americans have knowledge of this period in the war and sympathise with us. And yes I think Blair was being squirmy wormy cuz he has to suck up at this time: his hird term of office may depend on his "heroics" if u wanna be cynical about what he's upto.

[d4n13l]

TERRORISM I meant, and you know it.
How many people have been killed by the IRA over the last few dozen decades? You obviously know the exact figures...
You dont seem to dispute the fact that the US is the main source of finance for the IRA either. Now recent funding has been slowed down but something that big does not die overnight.
Asides from your views, the FACT remains that the US werent with Britain during The Blitz. Now, thats *FACT*. Wheres the emotion in what Im saying?
Rumours are just rumours but facts are facts.
Finally, the events of 60 years ago do piss me off - The Third Reich pisses me off no end (The Holocaust doesnt piss you off?). But what certainly doesnt piss me off about it is when the USA joined the war, giving Britain much needed support. No matter what time they entered into it. Thats not even the point as I have stated clearly. You can act as patriotic as you want over my remarks, but I will not take them back.

P.S. It was Blair who dug up WWII, not me.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2001-09-22 06:00:35 ]</font>

[ember]

Can we have a truce here please?

[speedy]

Who said one terroist act is less important than another? It is the magnitude of what happened in New York that is for sure very relevant and a wake up call to the world.

Frankly the endless hostilities between Northen Ireland and the British has been going on for centuries. Old news. Neither side is innocent or willing to end it. What does that say about both your countries on that issue? Not much. What century do you think you may be able to bury the hatchet?

We're not discussing the IRA or D4n13l's psychoneurosis over the Blitz who admits events of sixty years ago still piss him off. War War Two ended 56 years ago. Get over it.

[ember]

speedy - be nice - that was uncalled for.
I will try to answer your points in order that you bought up the subject so here goes:

The magnitude was indeed a wake up call. But ler's suppose it happened in Kuala Lumpur. Would that have been enough to wake up USA? I think not. And whether the Malaysians would have retaliated is questionable. I suspect it would have made the newsheadlines for a couple of nights and thats all - unless numbers of Britains/Americans were killed.

Those hostilities in NI are based on religious differences of the people LIVING there (protestants and catholics) that is based on many centuries conflict between the ancestotrs who were immigrants (and in earlier cases, English invaders) and the Irish. I personally find the current feuding childish - the 1999 Peace process delivered considerably but has its faults. At the moment the NI assembly has been put on "hold" because the contractual obligation of gun decomissioning by the IRA (part of the deal to set up a NI assembly) was not met. The NI assembly will hopefully return when the arms decommissioning finally (fingers crossed) begins proper.
Notice the words "peace process" and "deals" etc. Dialogue was the essence.

I think we should find all terrorism offensive no matter what magnitude. To say "ours is bigger than yours" is very simplistic and degrades the issue. The wake up call is only significant if enough people join in response. It has, unfortunaely, taken an attack on the worlds biggest military and economic power to stir the "actively anti-terrorist" ideas that have spawned in the last week.

It is the magnitude of power of those affected that is relevent in discussing the "historical" importance of the NY tragedy. Since the powerful can now affect the future.

[Compound]

what does that irish bumpersticker mean it goes something like 26+4=1 or somethin like that not to change the subject im just curious never could figure it out

[SlamminMOFO]

Lets cut the crap guys. this is no time for arguing.
USA and England hold the strongest alliance in the world.
PERIOD

[speedy]

What was uncalled for was trying to drag either the IRA or WWII into the discussion when 6,000 bodies are still in the rubble of the WTC. Nobody is argusing that the UK and the USA aren't allies. Of course. I'm afraid that the U. S. is seen in many parts of the world either as a bully if we act, or indifferent if we don't.

What happened on 9/11 is seen by many as a watershed event. Terrorism in one form or another has been around for a long time. If any good can come from the tradgey it is now a serious effort will be made to attack terroists where they hide regardless of lines on maps or who in the past offered them comfort and shelter. No sane person likes or wants a war. This is one of those times where if no action is taken, things would likely get worse. That it is likely there will be a war that means pleasantries are set aside, there isn't going to be any negotiating or please may we crap. The terroists will be hunted down and dealt with the same way you deal with any rabid dog.

[ember]

We know that speedy......it's not that we don't know it's just why do you have to spell it out so much?

hehe, never mind

btw - what you been doing VCD/SVCD/DVD wise?

[jaw2957]

My country is better than yours...No mines better...No mine. Give me a break guys. Is ember the only adult in this post? d4n13l's crtiique of Blair is warranted. We weren't in it then. Its one thing to ship supplies, but(symbolically at least) it means much more to send your troops in. speedy, what has happenned to us is an incredible tragedy, but come on...let the guy critique Blair(leave Bush alone)!

[d4n13l]

speedy, I am beggining to wonder if you can read and understand English fully.
For the last time:
IT WAS BLAIR WHO BROUGHT UP WWII.

And it was you, speedy, who gave me reason to bring the IRA into it, by saying that terrorism doesnt happen where I live.
My first post will probably really only be understood by British or those who know Blair a bit better than you. The whole nature of my post was a jibe at Blair. Now, I hope I have made it clear that the post was in no way a critisism of the US's decision to enter the war in dec 1941. Is that clear? Now with that cleared up, you have no reason to argue with my post as what I said (and people here agree) is 100% correct. Why you take offence to a British citizen critisising his own leader for colouring history puzzles me.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2001-09-22 05:57:13 ]</font>

[d4n13l]

Oh and another thing: Im not even British.

[speedy]

What your are d4n13l is given away in your profile. In a word; immature. You're just another physiologically immature
smart ass looking for attention with way too much free time on his hands that has nothing better to do than troll newsgroups and forums for the sole purpose of making noise. Now I'll sit back and watch you confirm what I just said.