DVD to SVCD, in high motion scenes are filled with lines.

[jrbling]

The problem i am having is that after creating a mpeg2 from VOB, when the motion increases, the visiblity of the lines accross the screen increases to the point where its irritating.
I use Smartripper to extract the vobs, then i use dvd2avi to framserve, then i simply use TMPGenc and encode the d2v file on all the standard settings, 2250CBR, non-interlaced, standard aspect ratio settings (480x480 i think), etc. I have no problem with lines during high motion in 1150CBR vcds, so it is possible that the problem is the higher bitrate like and not necessarily just svcd. I have burned the svcd to make sure it wasnt the way it plays on the pc, but that did not solve the problem.
any help would be great, thnx.

"I am not a crook"

[JamieBecks23]

deinterlace or encode as interlaced

[adam]

Well, those two options should only be done as a last resort, and really you should never need to deinterlace a DVD when converting to SVCD.

jrbling: If you aren't following a guide then do so, because you are definitely making things harder on yourself. Preview the movie in dvd2avi and let it get past the opening credits. If dvd2avi reports 95% or higher film than turn forced film on and in TMPGenc load the NTSCfilm SVCD template. This applies to almost all NTSC DVDs. The result is a pure progressive encode, which is how the DVD was done. You won't see any interlacing artifacts like you are getting, and the quality will be much better too.

If dvd2avi reports anything other than 95% film then turn off forced film and in TMPGenc load the NTSC template and make sure that it is set to interlaced on both the Video and Advanced tabs. You won't get the interlacing artifacts but the quality will be about 15% lower.

If you want more info about why its better to use forced film and encode progressively than just do a forum search on "forced film."

If you want to know how to get better results when forced film won't work (not 95% or higher film) than do a forum search on "inverse telecine" or "IVTC."

The reason you didn't see interlacing artifacts when making VCDs is because mpeg1 doesn't support interlacing.

[poopyhead]

jrbling: If you aren't following a guide then do so, because you are definitely making things harder on yourself. Preview the movie in dvd2avi and let it get past the opening credits. If dvd2avi reports 95% or higher film than turn forced film on and in TMPGenc load the NTSCfilm SVCD template. This applies to almost all NTSC DVDs. The result is a pure progressive encode, which is how the DVD was done. You won't see any interlacing artifacts like you are getting, and the quality will be much better too.

well, adam...i've still seen minor...and i mean very minor (but still present, nonetheless) interlace artifacts even with FILM sources (>95% FILM).... from experience, using de-interlace (especially adaptive de-interlace) shouldn't have too much of a problem and removes those pesky interlaced lines quite nicely.

jrbling:

i think there are also some different situations i encountered (other than the most common progressive FILM)

1) hybrids where the video type is FILM, but the frame type is jumping back and forth between progressive and interlaced. in these cases, simply treating the movie as FILM and encoding with forced film is fine... however, there will be lines and you will have to de-interlace, but the quality is still very good. trying to treat them as NTSC and encoding w/o forced film lowers the quality too much.

2) sometimes, movies aren't completely uniform throughout...(i.e. could start with really low FILM percentage and gradually increase to nearly 100% FILM) you may have to treat each one uniquely, but for the most part, treating them as FILM and using forced film hasn't caused me any problems in quality. again, de-interlace should be used if there are any lines. keep in mind, most opening credits are NTSC (low FILM)..however, you should still treat the movie as FILM if the majority of the movie is indeed FILM.

3) adam mentioned with using forced film if the movie is >95% FILM. how about a movie that's between 95-90% FILM? i've used forced film with movies as low as 90% FILM + de-interlace pretty well. again, the situation is unique with each movie, but don't let the 95% FILM be an absolute barrier between using and not using forced film.

[adam]

@Poopyhead. Most of the time the opening studio logos and the end credits are stored as separate cells and are pure NTSC. If you use forced film then you may occasionally see interlacing on these portions. This is a known limitation of forced film, and I think most people would agree its a minimal one. Very, and I mean very rarely, a scene change will be pure NTSC and there is a chance you will see the interlacing. Out of maybe 350 NTSC DVDs this has not happened to me yet, and if it did happen than most likely it would also present itself on the original DVD as well.

1) Regarding hybrids. Sometimes they are in fact hybrids, a mix or progressive and interlaced frames, and the best way to handle these is to not use forced film and to instead do an IVTC, and yes using adaptive deinterlacing in conjunction yields extremely good results. However, I have found that most hybrids are in fact stored as pure film, the stream is just tagged as interlaced frames. All DVDs are required to tag the stream interlaced, but when encoded in film the frames are almost always tagged progressive. For whatever reason, the studio just tagged the progressive frames as interlaced instead. So, all you need to do with a hybrid NTSC DVD is just used forced film and then use pulldown to patch the frames to progressive, while adding the pulldown flags. I have backed up a number of hybrid DVDs like this and have not ever had any problems.

2) The reason why the % film increases is because the opening logos are usually NTSC, so it has to go through a certain amount of the progressive movie to bring the % back up to film. Thats why you are supposed to set the start point after the credits before hitting preview.

3) Like I said, the opening logos and ending credits are almost always NTSC, and generally account for between 1-5% of the movie's length, which is why the % film may be as low as 95%. Sometimes the credits may be very long, in which case the % film will be lower than 95%. Basically, the point it to check and see what parts of your movie are film. As long as the only parts showing up as NTSC are in the logos or credits, then forced film will work. It just so happens that for Film movies, the % NTSC is almost never more than 5%, so it does make a very good general rule. Just use common sense when previewing the movie. Set the start point after the opening logo and preview it, 99% of the time it will say 100% film. Then set your start point somewhere in teh middle, again you'll almost always get pure film. Finally set the start point near the end but before the credits. If you get film, which you almost always will, then rest assured that forced film will work.

Did I mention that I love forced film?

[jrbling]

Thank you for posting and teaching me a few new things, Ill try your solution Adam thnx.

[Quigonsean]

I have a question in regards to this sorta. I've capped Empire Strikes Back. Grabbed it from W/S VHS NTSC 29.97fps mpeg2 . It looks great, no artifacts suprizingly, winDVR automatically deinterlaces it, which bitrate veiwer does confirm. Well I've been trying to use Avisynth with cce to turn it back to true Anamorphic Widescreen, which thanks to a fellow poster DJ_Rumpy, I have been able to do. Well after running Avisynth outside of cropping resizizing the only filters are "Convert to yuy", and a temporal smoother. After running this I get only in blaster bolts or bright flashes ie explosions only in the bright part lines thar look like a comb has been drug through it. It was suggested that those parts ie the special effects where left truly interlaced on the org film, and hence that is what I am seeing interlacing artifacts. After cce and all bitrate viewer still shows it as "Progressive" Any Ideas? Any help would be great.

Sean

[jrbling]

Adam, i did try your solution and there were no interlaced artifacts and the quality was good, however, i did notice a very very small and gradual lag in video to the audio, only by the end was it noticeable (gap of a second or less). Once again i used forced film in DVD2AVI, and encoded in TMPEnc using the SVCD film template. What can i do to fix this? thnx.

[adam]

How did you process your audio? If you used dvd2avi then that may be the problem. Most AC3 tracks have a delay, and dvd2avi often does not correctly account for this. Instead of setting it to decode, set it to demux on the audio tab. Now take this AC3 and convert directly to mp2 using BeSweet. You will see a spot to enter the AC3 delay. Look in the filename of the AC3 that dvd2avi spit out and it will list the delay which you should input into this box. Make sure and set it to + or - accordingly.

Also make sure your SVCD is multiplexed correctly. If you encode the video and audio together in TMPGenc than it is not correctly multiplexed. This is a major bug in TMPGenc, and as of yet I don't think its been corrected. I suggest you encode audio and video separately and then multiplex them together with bbmpeg, and if running WinXP don't forget the install the bbmpeg XP patch.

If you follow these steps you should not have any sync problems.