Question about TMPGEnc

[j1d10t]

I've got a question about TMPGEnc. In Settings, under the System tab, what is the difference between MPEG-2 Program (VBR), and MPEG-2 Super VideoCD (VBR)?


Thanks

[j1d10t]

I tried to put an image in, but it didn't show up. Let me try again.

[scottb721]

It would configure the variable settings in TMPG so a compliant SVCD mpeg2 file is produced. Picture dimension, max bitrates, that sort of thing.
I think! sounds right.

[j1d10t]

So what would happen if it was set to MPEG-2 System, instead of MPEG-2 Super VideoCD? Would it not be formatted correctly to fit on a CD, if you had the max MB that the CD could hold? I'm still kind of a newbie here (but I'm trying to learn), so please forgive my "stupid questions"...

[mats.hogberg]

If you use MPEG1/2 program stream instead of VCD/SVCD streams, the mpeg has to be padded (don't ask me why!) by the authoring program, (VCDImager says: "Padding stream - Hope this is OK with you..." or something to that effect) often with the result that the mpeg wont fit on the CD...
Anyway, it has to do with how the audio and video streams are multiplexed. The same options are available when using the mpeg tools multiplex.

/Mats

[j1d10t]

So if I use the MPEG-2 Program option, and it produces a file that is 775MB, then the authoring program most likely will think that it's too big for an 80 minute CD? And if I use the MPEG-2 Program, then ran the file through the MPEG Tools Merge and Cut in TMPEGEnc, it would correct the way the file is multiplexed? The reason I'm asking, is because I made a CVD that will play in my DVD player, but then forgot how I did it (except that I had to run it though the Merge and Cut tool in TMPEGEnc), and when I've tried to create another CVD it looks really bad in my DVD player. I think I've limited the options of how I did the first CVD down to this. Thanks!

[mats.hogberg]

Yes, you can encode to mpeg2 program, then multiplex as SVCD and you're safe. Helluva lot faster than reencoding from scratch, if you forgot to use the correct stream type.

/Mats

[energy80s]

MPEG 2 Program (VBR) is for DVD video.

[DJRumpy]

Not strictly for DVD MPEG-2, but rather, just Non-SVCD MPEG-2 video

[energy80s]

Which DVD video is!

[DJRumpy]

DVD MPEG-2 is a subset of the MPEG-2 specification. The MPEG-2 spec has a maximum bitrate of 15Mb/sec, rather than 9.8. It also doesn't require GOPS if I recall correctly (don't quote me on that, as I don't have the spec in front of me). The DVD spec for MPEG-2 is a bit more restrictive than the standard MPEG-2 specification.

[j1d10t]

So DVD video uses the MPEG-2 Program setting. And since CVD resolution is a valid DVD resolution, if I used the MPEG-2 Program setting, I'd basically be creating mini DVDs?

[mats.hogberg]

Don't mix file types and video disc standards.
If you author your mpeg2 program stream as DVD, but keep it small enough to fit on a CD, then burn it to a CD, yes, then it's a miniDVD.
(There's more than just mpeg2 at a certain resolution to make it qualify as a DVD mpeg - Look under what is!)

/Mats

[DJRumpy]

j1d10t, you'd be creating a Half D1 MPEG-2, which, if the bitrate was within DVD spec along with resolution, you'd be creating a DVD compliant MPEG-2.

[txpharoah]

You COULD call a CVD a mini-DVD. It is usually a DVD compliant stream. Moreso that SVCD.

[DJRumpy]

I think they coined the term 'mini' from those tiny 3" CD-R discs. I don't think it refers to the size of the mpeg

All of this talk about size almost sounds politically incorrect...

[txpharoah]

Well, when I was young, the only thing that sounded like a "mini" was Minnie Mouse. "Mini" is a fairly new word to the english language, an incorrect grammar at that. But yeah, I think he meant CVD and a mini-DVD in data size, not physical.

[j1d10t]

OK, I guess miniDVD was the wrong term. I meant if I used the MPEG-2 System setting, 352x480 resolution, and audio of 192k a second with 48000hz, then it would produce a DVD compliant MPEG-2 file.

Thanks for your help

[j1d10t]

OK, one more question, since you guys have been a wealth of information What's the difference between the Quantize Matrix settings? Specifically the Default and MPEG Standard? See picture below. Otherwise do you know of a program that will analyze an mpg file and tell you everything about it, like Bitrate, Stream Type, GOP Structure, and I guess Matrix? I'm trying to recreate the exact settings of a specific mpg file... Please help

Thanks

[DJRumpy]

Kwag could probably answer this one better than anyone. He is a master when it invovles fudging the matrix settings. If I had to guess, I'd say the MPEG standard was better suited to CBR, or a lower bitrate source (not sure which), and the default was better suited to VBR or higher bitrate.

Kwag?

[kwag]

Thanks for the vote of trust DJRumpy

OK, one more question, since you guys have been a wealth of information What's the difference between the Quantize Matrix settings?

The MPEG Standard matrix is just as it says, the standard It was developed as a "General Purpose" matrix, and is the standard matrix used in MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 throughout the world on almost every encoder. The "Default" matrix in TMPEG, is an optimized matrix developed by Pegasys, Inc. It's their own "customized" matrix, just like we at KVCD.Net have our own "KVCD Notch" matrix, which is completely different to all others. Specially with the "Notch" pattern, which lowers quantization on low lit/dark scenes, and removes most of the nasty visible DCT blocks that plague almost every encoded mpeg file.

Otherwise do you know of a program that will analyze an mpg file and tell you everything about it, like Bitrate, Stream Type, GOP Structure, and I guess Matrix? I'm trying to recreate the exact settings of a specific mpg file... Please help

BitRate Viewer ( http://www.tecoltd.com ) will analyze your mpeg files, and give you most of the information you want. It will not display the matrix data that was used when encoded. This information is in every mpeg stream in the "Sequence Header", but I'm not aware right now of a program that will display this information.

Hope this helps

-kwag

[txpharoah]

I don't want to go into explanations, as I don't have that much time, but DEFAULT in TMPGenc is better than the others for various reasons. MPEG Standard is the plain, dry MPEG standard, not necessarily best to use when others are tweaked. The CGI/Anim one really really sucks. I'd never use it on animation at all. Its lossy for some reason, at least in practice, if not also in theory.

[j1d10t]

Thank you everyone for all of your help! I finally figured out how to have a great looking CVD on my DVD player - and a special thanks to Kwag for the great templates you've got I ended up taking your KDVD-352-480-half-D1-_NTSC_ template and changing the frame rate to 29.97, and the bit rate to 2 pass with 2300 as average, with 3300 max and 1000 min, and audio at 192k 48000hz, and it looks great! No microblocks, no skipping, perfect! Looks even better (on my 51inch HDTV) after encoding it with those settings, than it does watching it though my digital cable. Thank you so much for the help, you guys are the best

[kwag]

Thank you everyone for all of your help! I finally figured out how to have a great looking CVD on my DVD player - and a special thanks to Kwag for the great templates you've got I ended up taking your KDVD-352-480-half-D1-_NTSC_ template and changing the frame rate to 29.97, and the bit rate to 2 pass with 2300 as average, with 3300 max and 1000 min, and audio at 192k 48000hz, and it looks great! No microblocks, no skipping, perfect! Looks even better (on my 51inch HDTV) after encoding it with those settings, than it does watching it though my digital cable. Thank you so much for the help, you guys are the best

Great to hear that
Now try it again with the same parameters, but use CQ with file size prediction instead of 2-pass. You'll see a big difference in quality, and faster encoding time

-kwag

[j1d10t]

Kwag, you get better quality from CQ? Cool. I will have to try that. What CQ setting would you recommend to fit 43 minutes on an 80 min CDR?

Thanks

[kwag]

Kwag, you get better quality from CQ? Cool. I will have to try that. What CQ setting would you recommend to fit 43 minutes on an 80 min CDR?

Thanks

Use manual file prediction
Read here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=27
Or make it easier, use ToK: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=36&sid=ace480785103fc37e563c872e4adf0e6

-kwag

[DJRumpy]

j1d10t, CQ mode provides whatever bitrate the mpeg needs (within the max/min limit specified). It's rather wasteful on space, and quality can still suffer on scene fades and the like, where VBR handles these better. In theory, VBR will produce better quality, at the cost of time spent. CQ will give you good quality, as long as your maximum is high enough to meet the bitrate demands of any particular frame(s). I've never tried Kwag's manual file prediction, but it should help take some of the guesswork out of the output size of CQ mode.

If space is at a premium, quality is paramount, or you just don't want to require an additional disc, then you might be better served with Multi-pass VBR. Otherwise, CQ is a good option. Assuming the max is high enough, you will probably notice no difference between a CQ encode, and a multipass VBR encode. I sometimes use it on a short movie (say less than 90 minutes) going to DVD-R.

[j1d10t]

I think I'm going to stick with the 2pass VBR for now. The manual file prediction looks a little too complicated for me right now. Maybe when I'm not such a newbie, and have a little more experience under my belt, and I understand this stuff more, then I'll play around with CQ settings. But I get pretty good results with my settings of 2300 average, 3300 max, and 1000 min for 43 minutes of widescreen on an 80 min CD. I've also found I get better results if I enable the Cache Setting in TMPGEnc's Environmental Settings. Thanks to everyone for all of your help/advice, I really appreciated it

[DJRumpy]

I prefer 2 pass as well, unless my source is just small. Since I use DVD-R, I have a bit more room to play with than vcd/svcd/cvd, but even with DVD-R, you have to be careful that your output doesn't get too big.

If you dont' mind the wait, and you use a bitrate calculator (you do don't you?), you can get excellent results, and save a bit of space at the same time...