Color printer problems ..

[jbenj01]

Can someone please tell me why my blue (cyan?) comes out pink/red (magenta?) ?? I just replaced 4 cartridges on my Epson Stylus C80 with generic ones (bad idea, i think), reset all 4 chips on each cartridge, cleaned heads (several cycles)..

What did i not do properly? Is there general/specific advice respects swapping ink cartridges to maintain optimum print quality (besides using original manufacturer ones)?? Please advise.. Thanks.

[rallynavvie]

Sounds more like your cyan cartridge is actually magenta or light magenta (6-color process color). I've never heard of inkjet printers getting their wires crossed and not using a particular cartridge. Can you remove the magenta cartridge and try printing something in cyan? This would be obvious then if it was still printing in magenta shades. Depending on the type of printer if this does end up being the problem make sure to clean the printheads as soon as you get the proper cartridges installed so as not to have any leftover magenta on the nozzles.

[jbenj01]

rallynavvie, thanks.

what i did last nite was to swap my cyan and magenta cartridges slots in the printer with one cleaning cycle and now the colors are coming out properly..

.. but still not as clear as the original cartridges. i'm finding out that i must constantly perform a cleaning cycle after every few pages of color printing.. ?? and advice?

[EddyH]

1. you got the cartridges swapped, wrong colours in each slot.

2. this is likely to mess things up a while see if you can get hold of some "cartridge flush" (or head, ink, inkjet flush, whatever) refill fluid or cartridges and run an intensive cycle with them when the actual ink next runs out.

3. its an epson. live with it until you can afford to replace it with an HP (and afford to buy HP cartridges). that's what i'm pateintly awaiting. (kicks epson PoS).

there's just something "up" with their design that means the ink regularly goes murky, or blotchy, or smears/feathers sideways, or combinations of those, depending on model. My old 460 always ended up with the yellow going a horrible brown, the magenta going purple, and the cyan just disappearing. Thought it was broken for a while as I'd never had a printer do that before (never had an epson), but was assured in many places that it was just normal and to accept it.
The C40 that replaced it, when the problem became terminal and it would no longer even put black ink to page, tends to feather and have a lot of nozzle drop-out, more like that which afflicts other brands but far more pronounced. Worst bit is you can't access the heads yourself to fix it, just run cleaning cycle after cleaning cycle and lose masses of ink. Grr.
It's not so bad as i use compatibles, but it's still money down the drain.

The compatibles don't cause the problem, unless they have a remarkably protracted effect. I did switch to official cartridges only for a while but it made no difference, worse if anything. Bloody epson.

I'd have whatever the current replacement for the DJ 870Cxi is, would that I could afford it and it's huge cartridges. Got one at family home as a castoff, old Office-duty inkjet. It's a monster for a plain A4/Legal paper user, but lovely with it. Churns out B&W "Draft" copies that are indistinguishable from many brands "Quality" settings at a rate of about 12ppm, decent (though not exactly photo) colour almost as fast, and rarely has any blockage or problems apart from the cost of cartridge replacement about twice a year... cant remember last time it needed cleaning (and i would have done, as mum would have made a 2-hour phone call out of the process). Oh yeah, and the paper uptake is perpetually screwed, but that's probably why they sold it off. Hand-feeding is a bit more acceptable in a home environment than a busy office

[Greg12]

No no no


no need to trash ur printer. I just had this problem, only everything was coming out with a Cyan hue.


Simply go into the printing preferences and run the noozle cleaning utility and the head cleaning utility. It might take more than 1 whipe but u'll printer will work.

Mine took 2 cleanings. It is back to beautiful now.

[jbenj01]

thanks eddy and greg..

strange.. as it stands i've got my magenta cartride where the cyan s/b and vice-versa.. that means that when i injected the cartridges with the generic ink, i injected magenta into the cyan cartridge and cyan into the magenta cartridge.. (yea, i know.. 'who's on 1st??'

as far as cleaning cycles, i literally must go thru a cleaning cycle or 2 every several pages (~2-3 dvd cover prints).. go figure.. ??

would it make any differenc if i use the original Epson cartridges, but inject the generic ink into them?? (right now, i'm using generic cartridges and generic ink)..

[rallynavvie]

HP my behind. Get a Tektronix Phaser 780 Plus if you want a better printer. When I did have an inkjet I had an Epson and it worked fine, but I only ever used Epson ink in it. The only HP printer I've ever used is the 5000PS I've got at work; obviously the 5000 works well, but it should for what the thing cost.

[tenders]

iv'e got a Cannon S200. $60 bucks brand new,including the cartridges. its 6 months old now and runs like a top. does an excellent job printing covers on glossy photo paper

[EddyH]

Rally - nice choice, they've got one of those in the uni library, churning out top-quality colour pages and transparencies like they're going out of fashion... lovely.

The thing's the size of a large washing machine and looks like it costs about as much as a new sports motorbike though! Wonder if anywhere has an old one that's due to be "retired" in the usual destructive corporate way soon and can be rescued (with a gross of replacement toner carts). Does anyone make a desk-sized colour laser at all that's inside of three figures? There's only one person i know has a desktop laser, and it's an old mono DJ somethingorother he was given as a cast-off.

Jbenj, the frequent-cleaning thing... like i said... it's an epson!
Oh for the old Star LC-10, stick the fresh ribbon in, start printing, replace it 5000 pages later or whenever it gets too faint to read..

Greg, i guess you're one of the lucky ones then..! I've got a bad tempered C40 here if you're willing to swap. Using head flush shouldn't trash the machine, should make it work better if anything as it'll also rinse off the pads used inside the printer during the head cleaning cycle, and is formulated not to wreck anything (rather than using plain water might).

[gmatov]

Hi,
First, you should all buy Canons. That being said...
I assume the C80 has ink reservoirs, rather than cartridges, same as the 800 series. Epson is maybe overstrict, but they tell you not to leave the cartridges out of the printhead too long, as the ink tends to dry out rapidly in the printhead. When I was given a couple Canons, with ink reservoirs, which the owners got tired of trying to make print, I pulled the reservoirs, filled the little raised nipple on the printhead with head cleaner, replaced the reservoirs, ran the cleaning cycle, and repeated till the heads were clean. Print became, and remains, perfect. Much easier with reservoir type than with a cartridge if you screw up on refilling. I've tried flushing HP 23s and 78s and it's almost impossible, even with the vacuum device I bought some time ago. It does work well to prime a newly filled HP color cart.
I have to saw one apart one day, as it seems after a few refills, they cross contaminate, colors migrating to the next chamber. I don't know if there is a full length separator between the 3 colors, or if you put a few ccs too much in, it overflows into the next.

EddyH,
I don't have a Star LC 10, but how about a NX 1040 with half a doz fresh ribbons?
Or an Epson LQ 1170, 18 inch platen, no spares. Wht the heck could I expect to pay for a ribbon? Yoi!!!
Plus, Okidata 800, 600e, 4W, all lasers. I use the 800 all the time, runs low on toner, get out the bottle, squirt an ounce or 2 in and back in business. A company sent me 4 bottles of toner years ago when I expressed interest in going into the business of rehabbing laser carts. Still a good idea. New cart for mine is about 30USD, Office Depot. Dollar's worth of powder, and good as new, unless the drum goes out. Trash heap then. New print engine is about 140. Still better than the 55 minimum a 78 cart will cost for the 900 series HPs, and probably the 870 as well. My HP 812, 23 cart, is about 30, and I hate paying that.
If anyone is seriously refilling their own carts, I would advise checking the ink vendors ink carefully, not because it will clog or anything, but because some say "ink is ink", you get the same ink no matter whose printer you use. I say this because I bought "Canon" ink from 2 different vendors, and when I checked the 2 oz, about an inch in diameter bottle against the 4 oz, about 1 3/4 inch diameter bottle, the smaller bottle was darker than the larger. This was yellow. You'd never see it in blue or red, but I don't think the printer says "Oh, this ink is darker, let's squirt less."
There is a computer show about every 4 weeks near me, 8 or 10 printer supply vendors, and I can't honestly say if ANY of them can sell me a true color for ANY of my printers. Close, maybe, but close isn't good enough for photo printing.
Ah, well, my 8 or 10 cents worth.

George

[rallynavvie]

You can find used Tek 780s on eBay ever so often. Toner is still pretty expensive for it, I think around $100 a stick. They do last quite a while, though if you use it for B+W you're likely to need a black toner more often since it's the same size as the others. Some color laser printers still use larger black toner cartridges so you can use it for black text pages and the like without getting new cartridges so often. The only drawback to the Tek is that it prints pretty slow, but I can use the Xerox DC12 at work for that if I need a lot of prints. But for a home user doing occasional quality color printing the 780 is fantastic.

[EddyH]

My print heads have the ink flow interrupted for maybe 5 secs tops, and still it has problems...

"Ink low - press to see how to replace" (way to patronise me..)
So I get the new cartridge out of it's box, press the button, press the next button to bring the head to the centre, lift the lid, and give the new cart a tap to dislodge any bubbles.

Then in one swift motion, rip the sealing tape off, pop open the cart holder, pull out the new one, put the new one in place, snap it shut and close the lid again. Quickly pressing thru all the "how to open the lid" screens til it start the ink charging.

After that i tend to find it can print maybe two more pages before it appears to run dry, then you have to run a couple ink cycles before 80% of the nozzles will work again (which is enough with "microweave" - a small blessing). Like they didn't make the ink charging period long enough (or maybe it's completely unneccessary).

Hm.

£100 a toner stick? Well if the four of them will last as long as 15 each of epson B/W and colour carts, then it's a fair price-trade. How much is the usual price for the used printer though?
(and, i wouldnt exactly call the phaser slow, not compared to an inkjet anyway )

Canons, hm, they always seemed to be low quality, slow and flimsy in prior experience. That said, they never gave a single problem either, and they're cheap..

Dotmatrix ribbons expensive now? (Even the special wide-plate ones.. they always used to be cheap, like £7.99 for BW, £12.99 for colour, and they'd last near enough forever... not that the quality was ever brilliant, but it did the job, and still made readable type even when i resurrected the thing for some emergency schoolwork duty the year before coming to college )

[The village idiot]

First, you should all buy Canons.

BAH! Buy what you want and can afford. I won't even say what my preference is (though I have a nice used 44 inch one on the way).

It sounds like the generic ink is not compatible with the stock epson inks. You may be screwed. I'll point you to a site where I buy my inks, they will have a better explaination of the different inks. They also have cheap OEM type inks that will work with your printer. They also have much better inks too, and empty carts, and cleaning fluid, and maybe a continous ink system for your printer. http://www.mediastreet.com

BTW: I neither work for mediastreet, or will in any way profit from you going there. Mearly some advice on using products that I know will work with the epson inks.

[gmatov]

Idiot!
No offense, just never had the chance to say it.
I'm kiddin', but Canon not only makes a fine printer, they used to, and may still, make the HP print engines. Everybody else calls it an inkjet, Canon calls it a bubble jet. They print as good a photo as anyone else, carts are relatively cheap, they are individual carts since the 20 and 21s. They do change the cart on occasioon, but not to a 55 buck version, ala 78. Or, you can buy a half-full version for 30+, 19 ml vs 38 ml..
None of my Canons has quit working. I have a stack of HPs that have, or plastic parts broke, or whatever. I've never had anything to do with a new HP, with the, what 26, 27, 28, carts?
I don't know what the individual tanks cost for the HP 500 buck printers.
Thanks for the link on ink. I'd dearly love to find a supply for true color ink. I have been assured at the show that the vendor had a technician, a chemical type person, who made sure all his formulations were true to the mfg's specs. Needless to say, their inks were no more true than the other vendors.
I may be gullible, but I did not think you were an employee of the site you named, and if you were, what's the diff? If you were, and you had good ink, I'd try it. I know about the no advertising rule, but think if someone has a good product, they should let us know, maybe asking Baldrick if it were OK.

EddyH,
Do you think maybe the cart waas pretty dry, (why else would you change it?) and you have an air pocket in the little nipple on the print head? Picture the nipple sticking up, 1/16th or so ring, no ink, brand new reservoir, full of ink, the screen holding the felt up above the head. You change, it prints one page well, then seems to go dry, till you run a cleaning cycle, or, if you have it, a purge cycle. Not that familiar with Epsons. 1 daughter has 1, I refill for her, she seems to have no problems. Maybe if you refill your own, you could just squirt enough ink into the "nipples", you know, with surface tension, it would kinda round up on the nipple. Probably rise up to meet the ink in the reservoir, eliminate an "air pocket". Theory, only. I haven't tried it, but it makes sense.

Village Idiot,
As to what you want and can afford, my S750, with 4 6 buck ink reservoirs was 70 bucks after rebate. You would be hard pressed to get a better printer for anywhere near the price. It will do a full 8 X 10, bordeless photo in 2 minutes flat. If you want to nitpick, actually 8 1/2 X 11, and if the pic doesn't fit full page paper, will autocrop to fit, with the included software. I ( I don't know how to emphasise "I"), do not think you are going to buy a better consumer quality printer than a Canon.

Cheers,
George

[EddyH]

maybe so... though i did think they were ink-soaked sponges rather than simply single-use tanks, so bubbles couldnt form?

you may yet sell me on a canon

[rallynavvie]

Used Tektronix 780 can be had on eBay for about $1000. Most I see are refurbished though. I've seen some used ones go for $800 that are still in mint condition. I got mine from an estate sale for even less than that and the memory said it had only been printed a few hundred pages. You just have to look around and you can find a good price on one. Unfortunately that's the only color laser printer that a consumer can afford that I've ever tried. All the other printers I use are $20k+

[gmatov]

EddyH,
They are ink soaked sponges. All refiller directions tell you to make sure you get ink deep into the head are when you inject, or you will get a bubble of air. I do know a HP type will quit working, till you give it another shot, deep down to the airpocket.
My point with the drop into the nipple is that from there to the reservoir of ink in the tank is a void. The ink won't flow from the sponge to force that air up out of the tank, and when you print and use up what little ink is still in the nozzles, they start to "suck"air, you know, on refilling the tiny "firing chambers". Heat the ink to boiling, form a bubble, ink squirts, the bubble collapses, the cooling effect causes a tiny vaccuum to suck in fresh ink, cooling the transistor, resistor, whatever it's called. If there's no ink, it tries to suck air, and with no cooling ink for a given period of time, the resistor or whatever overheats and burns out, that nozzle will never work again. Some have 128 nozzles, some maybe more. Burn out a few....
One good reason to not run the printer empty, particularly with a built in head.
I know the old Canons, with removeable print head, would burn out, and the cartridge holder/nozzle unit cost around 50 bucks, for a printer you could buy for 60.
I like the Canon. Not telling anyone they have to use them.

[The village idiot]

It will do a full 8 X 10, bordeless photo in 2 minutes flat. If you want to nitpick, actually 8 1/2 X 11

Ah, but that's not 44 inches wide. Just finally getting to where I can start a small scale printing business. To make the money you need to be able to print 44 inches or wider. Found a killer deal on ebay, and the thing should be shipping today.

And no doubt that Canon has taken the lead by giving its customers reasonably priced ink carts, and the ability to change just one color at a time. If all the others did that, life would be better. The epson inks are far too expensive for me. I didn't upgrade my small printer until I could get a constant ink system for the printer of choice. The way I look at it, by the time I use 4 ounces of each color I will be at break even, or ahead of buying Epson carts. Personal preference goes to Epson printers for quality output, and smooth halftoning. NEVER for speed. I don't print for speed, but for quality. As far as HP goes, I gave up on them a long time ago. And Canon seems to be making ground with their newest printers, like the s9000 (or is it 5000?) large format printer. Encad has been left in the dust by using HP carts for their printers. Stinking 600x600 from them. Haven't ever used any of the other large printers.

Keep an eye on mediastreet, soon the may have systems for the Canon printers. That way you can run an ink that won't fade in a reletively short time like most of the OEM inks. Their generations inks are rated for 100 years+. I've been using them since version 1 and really like the output on some of the archival papers. I also recommend their Royal Plush and (maybe) Royal Jazz (haven't tried the Jazz yet). The Canvas is pretty good too, but looks best with a LARGE size picture (larger than 8x12).

If you run an Epson printer, I would recommend using the generic (OEM)bulk inks from many venders (i'd buy mine from mediastreet). Around $40 for 4 ounces each of 4 colors, only a little more for 6&7 colors. And new generic carts for a reasonable price.

And the don't work or profit does come from the no advertising rule. And no offense taken

[gmatov]

Village,
The only large format printers I've ever had dealings with were blueprint type machines, I don'think they have photo ability.
I didn't think you were selling anything, and I certainly wasn't.
What is the constant ink system? I'm a little lost here. Is it larger reservoirs, detached, tube fed, reservoirs, what? I can see where you, entering the business, would not want to, nor be able to afford running out of a color 7/8 of the way thru a 44 X infinity, print job. No plug, but my Canon tells me I'm low on a particular color, and should replace soon, not "You're out of yellow, dummy." My HP lets me know by giving me a brownish color for green or some such.
I'm not so interested in long lasting photo inks as water resistant, pigmented inks. You could darn near run my laser B&Ws thru the wask, and still make out letters. High humidiity makes the inkjet output get splotchy, damn near.
I'm going to check out mediastreet, I assume, .com, and see what they have for me.
I'm more interested in color compatibility than price, at this point. I'm tired of printing pics of the kids and grands, and having a grey sweater come out a nice dark blue, and don't like the blue hi-lites in the hair, either.
BTW, far from the 600 X 600, how do you like the 5760 X 2880 res they trie to tell us we are getting now? Who in the heck do they think they are kidding? Take a peek at the best print under a 30 X Radio Shack hand microscope, and you see acres of white around the tiny specks of color. Yet they're squirting 5 droplets per thousandth of an inch. Sure they are.

[gmatov]

Village,
OK, been there, seen that, all Epson. No help to me. Have to keep an eye on them, tho', possible they'll go to Canon also.
Now I understand the constant flow. Interesting. Look better in your shop, tho', than in my LR.
Thanks.

[rallynavvie]

I've got an HP 5000PS at work for large-format printing. Not a bad machine at all. I wouldn't use inkjet for anything less than that unless it was going to be used once or twice then tossed. Personal laser printers, even color ones, are totally worth the up-front initial investment. I'm almost positive my toner cartridges (cost $40-60 on eBay reliably) get more mileage than a simalarly priced inkjet cartridge (or even two if they're that cheap). But I do still have an inkjet printer at home that I use occasionally. It's not as easily networked as the Tek is though so I have to print to it via the PC it's attached to. Do they sell network adapters for inkjets?

[The village idiot]

HP still sells their "Jet Direct" ethernet interface. Also Linksys and D-link have networking products that include print servers. Fairly in-expensive, but haven't used any of the above.

[Ducatti20]

Only one comment..
Canon

[EddyH]

Gmatov - that 5760x2880 you were expecting, you DID use supermegaultrahigh quality mode on the top brand dollar-a-sheet paper, right? Rather than just sticking in any old paper and hitting "print" without adjusting the settings?

I dunno, 1440x720 on medium-quality "high quality inkjet" (like £4.99 for 150 sheets) paper looks almost like a normal photograph to me from the C40.. it's good enough for fantastic CD covers. Not for any other use though, as that takes 5-6 minutes per cover itself, it can barely keep pace with a 16x burn. It can go to 1440x1440 with the special paper, which looks a tad better, but takes about a half hour!

Even 2800x1440 should be totally indistinguishable (looks it on the shop demonstrator pages..) without a high power magnifier, but of course, they gotta go for the high numbers to outdo their competitors... feh. Most the time you'll only use it in standard 360x360 mode anyway, or maybe 360x720, 720x720 if you're showing off but don't want to wait a day for each page. Hell, the epson in 'fast BW' (not draft!) mode only gets 240dpi! Probably 180 in full-draft!

oh for when you moved up from dot matrix to Deskjet, and could sort-of tell the difference between the old 288x240 dpi systems and the new 300.. and epson came along to one-up with 360x180 or 360x360 in "fine" mode. The DJ500 let you print at 150 or even 75dpi if you were low on memory, crazy stuff..

[The village idiot]

The print speed has a lot to do with the hardware inside the printer. An old epson 1520 can print an 8x10 at full color 1440x720 with "microweave" and all that way faster than a much newer 785EPX with the same settings. Why do you think that is? Money that's why. Why buy the more expensive printer if the cheap ones would do the same thing in the same time. I'll take an old 1520 over the 785epx any day, even for plain text work, much faster (much more money too). I have used both, so it is a fair comparison for the times. 785 takes about 20 minutes to do an 8x10. The 1520 can do a 12x18 in only slightly more time (about 30 minutes) in post script mode with the epson stylus RIP running on an old AMD K6-2 500Mhz machine.

[EddyH]

i'd take the 460 over the C40, too... the draft mode was somehow quicker and looked better on the old machine. very strange.

and for just general, reliable BW text output, an old DJ510+, in all it's 300x600-max, colour free glory.

[gmatov]

EddyH,
I gotta tell you, you guys are all slightly fulla crap on this subject. I did mention, did I not, that I had a new grandkid coming soon?
Well, he came to us last night, Friday, 5-31,and I have been snapping digipics like crazy at 3 meg res, Olympus 550, going home, Dling, and printing like mad. My Canon s750 has been churning them out at 2 minutes per borderless 8 1/2 X 11, 1, 2, 4 per page in 2 minutes flat per page, I think photo quality, and no one I have given them to thinks they are a printer output, rather, would you order me a reprint?
And, while the printer is still printing, "you are running low on yellow", is reported, and at the next break, I pull the reservoir, squirt in 5 ml, re-insert, and hit "Print". Not a hiccup.
I WILL say that paper is not paper, which I found out years ago when I bought "show" paper and got a mottled mess. I brought down a half dozen packets of Canon and HP glossy photo, and tried the HP first. Good grief, ity looked like the 3 bucks a ream stuff I got stuck with years ago. It does not take Canon ink, although the last pack of Epson paper I ran through it made perfect pictures.
Did I mention 8 pounds 3 ounces,and perfect inevery respect?

[hoyboy]

Gmatov, first of all congratulations on the safe arrival of the newest member of your family- in respect to your posts on the Canon Bubblejet printers- I agree they are good printers while they are going- but can be real a**holes of things when they are not(like everything else I suppose). I have a Canon S400 printer purchased about 2 years ago- good output while new, but as soon as it needed new ink it started playing up like nothing else. Streaks in the printing, even with new inks put in etc. I had a Lexmark 3000 printer before this- always printed well but incredibly expensive to run!. The canon has not done a heap of work but may need a new ink-head. Maybe time to get a new printer!

[The village idiot]

gmatov...Congrats!

And to the printer, glad it is working for you. I wish all the printer manufacturers would make them single color replacements. But then they would lose some more money. The printer consumables market is purely profit! And most companies rip you off. And back to your specific printer, you might think about a new canon. The newer models have come to be very good, and still single color replacements.

Printers are like studio television cameras. Each brand takes its turn in the spotlight. 3 or 4 major brands, and when one has a feature that everyone likes, they sell like crazy (for studio gear crazy is pretty small). Then one of the others tops that, and its sales become prevalent, then the next one.... ad infinitum. Printer do the same thing, at least among the japanese makers. If X does this better, then Y(our company) must do much better than that. This logic even carries into the PRO models a little. But at least there performance is driven by the need to make more money. Like, If I need to make more by printing, I can either use cheap media, or get a faster printer. Time is, after all, money. And faster equates to more money.

[gmatov]

Hoyboy,
Thanks.
I'm not sure of the 400 series. If that one uses the large BC20 black carts, and the dual printhead for color (2 little 1/2 inch carts? BC21s, I think. ) it's the type I've gotten back into service with a drop or 2 of printhead cleaner in the little "nipple" where the cart meets the printhead. Bubble the cleaner up a little, put in the carts, and run a "cleaning" cycle or two. If a couple reps don't work, some of the diodes or transistors, whatever, might have burned out. That thing costs about 50 bucks, with 2 carts included. Probably cheaper to buy one of their real cheap ones for the cradle, like the 200 or 320 or something. I don't know if it can be replaced as a "consumeable" on my 750, or if it's a shop repair. After warranty, it would probably be cheaper to replace the machine.
You know, Epson uses a piezo crystal rather than a heating element, like most others do. You smack a crystal, it makes an electrical charge, send a charge to it, it expands and pops the ink out of the nozzles. I don't know if the crystals can "shatter" or break the circuit or whatever to stop a nozzle from working, to give you streaks. It may be better than everyone elses system. I will grant the 785EP something high marks for photo output, especially with the 15 foot rolls of photo paper. I've watched the thing work at shows and been tempted to buy one, but the ink cost has always stopped me. I've printed 3 packs of paper the last couple days, so the roll paper cost would probably be bankrupting me, too.