The Video GOP is Too Long - TmpgEnc DVD Author

Ave,

I encoded my PAL AVI to PAL 25.00 FPS Progressive M2V using Tmpgenc Xpress, using the MPEG Output at resolution 352 X 240 (for NTSC). And used DGPulldown with setting 25 -> 29.970 to convert it to NTSC.

Loading this new M2V i get the error:

"The video GOP is too long" in TMPGEnc DVD Author!

I have no clue what it means and how to fix it, and i hope i don't have to re-encode my movie in Tmpgenc Xpress again!

Any help appreciated.
Thanks.

Hmmm, odd. The Max GOP length is 18 for NTSC and 15 for PAL, So it depends on what GOP setting you used when you encoded and what TDA thinks you are giving it!

So, if you used an NTSC GOP of 18 and TDA thinks you are supplying a PAL file (because it is 25fps, despite the pulldown flags) then it sees the GOP as too long for PAL.

The only way I know of to fix this error is re-encode I am afraid. Or maybe another authoring program will see things differently. Going from 25fps to 29.97fps using DGPulldown is not exactly a standard DVD, so you may have some luck with another program!

Ave,

I'll have to re-encode Sigh!
I guess i needed to have the GOP to be 18 for NTSC as it was a PAL video and it was 15.

My question is, how do i set it?

In the "GOP Structure" tab in TMPGEnc Xpress, after having chosen the MPEG Output option, i don't see any place i can put in 18 or 15. In fact, it's got multiple options... Under which option do i need to put 18??

Thanks,
Mickey

Originally Posted by soundforbjt

I'd ignore it and author and burn it if you have plenty of blanks, I'll bet it works.

Ave,

Well i do have blanks.. i am skeptic but i'll try one and see what happens.

Mickey

mpeg-vcr has a GOP fixer, just tried it and it worked for me.

You don't have to re-encode, fix GOP or anything.
Author it in DVDLab Pro. No problems.

p.s. I do this almost daily with dgpulldown files.

Careful though, when you apply pulldown (any kind of pulldown) because the GOP length is calculated on displayed frames, rather than encoded frames, so if you set your GOP length to 18 within the encoder when you created the m2v at 25f/s, when you DGpulldown it to make it NTSC compliant, you end up with >18 long GOP, which is obviously out of spec.

This said, it may be that TDA is reporting incorrect info.

Check your GOP settings of the encoded m2v anyway, if it's 18frames long (1/5/2; I/P/B), you know where the problem lies.

Originally Posted by midnightsun

Careful though, when you apply pulldown (any kind of pulldown) because the GOP length is calculated on displayed frames, rather than encoded frames, so if you set your GOP length to 18 within the encoder when you created the m2v at 25f/s, when you DGpulldown it to make it NTSC compliant, you end up with >18 long GOP, which is obviously out of spec.

This said, it may be that TDA is reporting incorrect info.

Check your GOP settings of the encoded m2v anyway, if it's 18frames long (1/5/2; I/P/B), you know where the problem lies.

Ave,

I have Question for you .. because you stated 1/5/2; I/P/B ... which is exactly what i see in my GOP Structure in TMPGEnc Xpress when i'm encoding. Is this, 1/5/2; I/P/B the same as 18 Frames (reqd. for NTSC) ?

Basically what i'm trying to ask is, i know that for NTSC we need 18 Frame long GOP and for PAL we need 15 Frame long GOP. I need to know how to define this in the GOP Structure in TMPGEnc Xpress when i'm encoding my AVI to M2V, so that i can do so correctly in future.
When i load my AVI and specify the MPEG Output as PAL 25.00 FPS Progressive, i click on the GOP Structure tab and i see 1/5/2; I/P/B as you mentioned... do i need to change that for NTSC or let it be?

As for my encodings yesterday, i loaded them in DVD Architect and it didn't give me any GOP errors or need for re-encoding M2V, it is accepting my M2V as NTSC without any problems. I haven't burned to disc and tested in my player but as folks here are stating, i think it will work out fine. Nevertheless, i'd like to know how to put in "18" for NTSC in the GOP Structure in TMPGEnc Xpress so maybe in future TMPGEnc DVD Author won't give me these errors.

Thanks again all...

Mickey

um....

dude try using a ntsc template & unlock it & set to 25 fps, then pull it down.... thats how i'd do it, cause i usally do ntsc to pal though..

& it works fine with tda.

let us know if it works

"My question is, how do i set it?"


yeap just checked tmpeg this way should deff work!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by the * dude

yeap just checked tmpeg this way should deff work!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ave,

Umm... "which" way should deff work?!

Mickey

Encode the video to 720x480, but keep it at 25fps.
Use DGPulldown to go from 25 to 29.97fps.
Author, burn.
If TDA chokes, get DvdLab Pro.

the way i said...

Originally Posted by the * dude

um....

dude try using a ntsc template & unlock it & set to 25 fps, then pull it down.... thats how i'd do it, cause i usally do ntsc to pal though..

& it works fine with tda.

let us know if it works

Ave,

So i specify NTSC Template instead of 'MPEG Output', in TMPGEnc Xpress, unlock the FPS and set it to 25... then whatever M2V output i get, i use DGPulldown to run 25 -> 29.970 ?

Hmm, sounds interesting... and you say you've tested it and it works in TDA also? Sounds good to me if it works dude.

One questions about it though.. what do i do with the Audio? Did you have to change the FPS for the Audio using BeSweetGUI or did you leave it as 25 and it was in Sync ?

Thanks,
Mickey

Ave,

Just an update.
I did actually Ignore the Error in TDA and went ahead to Author it... but it doesn't work. I tested the authored DVD in my computer. Sound plays but no Video is visible. So i don't think i can usa TDA by just Ignoring that GOP error.

I still would love to know how to define that "18" in the GOP Structure in TMPGEnc Xpress when encoding to M2V.

I'll definately be trying the * dude 's method also.

Thanks all,
Mickey

audio stays the same,,, this is the main reasons i use pull down, when i have ntsc avi with ac3 i won't have to down mix & time strech the audio keeping the original ac3 sound....

if you notice the time of the original m2v, & the pulled down one are the same... hence you use the same audio...

Originally Posted by the * dude

audio stays the same,,, this is the main reasons i use pull down, when i have ntsc avi with ac3 i won't have to down mix & time strech the audio keeping the original ac3 sound....

if you notice the time of the original m2v, & the pulled down one are the same... hence you use the same audio...

the * dude,

Question for you... how do you "Unlock" the FPS in TMPGEnc Xpress after choosing NTSC Template? I did actually try and do this for one of my PAL videos... but after choosing NTSC template... i didn't find anywhere i could unlock or specify the FPS...
I know in TMPGEnc Plus you could do it, but there has to be a way in TMPGEnc Xpress as well.

Thanks,
Mickey79

Originally Posted by midnightsun

Check your GOP settings of the encoded m2v anyway, if it's 18frames long (1/5/2; I/P/B), you know where the problem lies.

Ave,

Still would love to know if 18 Frames (for NTSC) is defined as 1/5/2; I/P/B in the GOP Structure tab in TMPGEnc Xpress, or some other way.

Thanks,
Mickey

Originally Posted by Mickey79

Still would love to know if 18 Frames (for NTSC) is defined as 1/5/2; I/P/B in the GOP Structure tab in TMPGEnc Xpress, or some other way.

Thanks,
Mickey

It is 1/5/2 ( 18 ) in TmpGenc Plus if that helps!

ahh yeah... i use tmpeg... but looking at express all you have to do is select the 'mpeg output' template & basically copy all the settings as the dvd ntsc template, but change the fps there...

that looks like the only way,,,, i can see other wise use tmpeg

Audio is audio, it doesn't have a framerate.
Note that I also suggested using DVDLab not TDA.

Sorry about the late reply!

if you are converting to 720x480 progressive 25.000f/s in order to apply pulldown to make it NTSC DVD compliant, 1/5/2 won't cut it because you'll end up with GOP's longer than 18. (29.97/25=about1.2, so 18frames at 25f/s -> 21-22 at 29.97f/s).

So set up your GOP's to 1/4/2

Originally Posted by midnightsun

Sorry about the late reply!

if you are converting to 720x480 progressive 25.000f/s in order to apply pulldown to make it NTSC DVD compliant, 1/5/2 won't cut it because you'll end up with GOP's longer than 18. (29.97/25=about1.2, so 18frames at 25f/s -> 21-22 at 29.97f/s).

So set up your GOP's to 1/4/2

Ave,

That sounds good to me, although i'd love to know how you come to such calculations... but next time i'll set my GOP's to 1/4/2; I/P/B for my PAL To NTSC conversions, and see if that gives a GOP too long error.

Thanks,
Mickey

Originally Posted by reboot

You don't have to re-encode, fix GOP or anything.
Author it in DVDLab Pro. No problems.

p.s. I do this almost daily with dgpulldown files.

Ave,

I'm still stuck at the same situation i was one month ago. I have a question for you, because you said you do this almost daily, so you must be getting the correct output.

Do you ever change the frame rate of the audio? Or do you use the original audio as it is?

Tell me if you do anything differently here..

- Encode PAL AVI -> PAL (25 FPS) M2V 352 X 240 (or 704 X 480) using TMPGEnc Xpress, set GOP Structure 1/4/2;I/P/B
- Run the M2V in DGPulldown with setting 25 -> 29.970
- Encode original AVI -> AC3 using BeSweetGUI (no framerate presets)
- Use the M2V and AC3 in TDA or DVDLab Pro to Author DVD

Would really, really appreciate any help i can get. The same methods seem to be working for a lot of people here.. i don't understand why not me.

Thanks,
Mickey

I use original audio, usually extracted from avi in virtualdub to .wav and transcoded to ac3 in ffmpeggui or tda's ac3 plugin.

Audio doesn't have a framerate. Using Besweet/belight is stupidly confusing.

Encode the video in tmpgenc plus (I actually use Canopus Procoder or Mainconcept, but it doesn't matter), using the standard NTSC template (720x480), BUT changing the framerate to 25fps.
Load the ac3 and m2v into DVDLab Pro, author and burn.

I have used 1/4/2, 18 frame GOP, and 1/5/2, and it seems to make no difference.
I have also used 1/5823/2 (KDVD) 18 GOP with no problems in DVDLab Pro.

If you're using 704x480, you may get an error, and this could be the whole problem.
There's a way to turn off DVDLab's check for compliance. Click Project, project properties, and in the "Accept movie sizes" box, set it to "Full/Half D1, SIF, SVCD, SAT..."
You will notice that 704x480 is NOT included.

Ave,

Originally Posted by reboot

I use original audio, usually extracted from avi in virtualdub to .wav and transcoded to ac3 in ffmpeggui or tda's ac3 plugin.

I'll do exactly the same.

Originally Posted by reboot

Audio doesn't have a framerate. Using Besweet/belight is stupidly confusing.

The only reason i use BeSweetGUI is to boost audio volume, which is not possible in ffmpeggui.

Originally Posted by reboot

Encode the video in tmpgenc plus

Is there any particular reason for using TMPGEnc Plus instead of Xpress?

Originally Posted by reboot

(I actually use Canopus Procoder or Mainconcept, but it doesn't matter)

I do have Canopus Procoder... but i haven't ever used it so i'm not sure about it. I guess i want to get this conversion right using TMPGEnc first and then i can play around a little.

Originally Posted by reboot

Load the ac3 and m2v into DVDLab Pro, author and burn.

Don't i have to use DGPulldown before i load the M2V in the Author? Cause right now the M2V has a 25 FPS rate.

Originally Posted by reboot

I have used 1/4/2, 18 frame GOP, and 1/5/2, and it seems to make no difference.

The only difference i noticed was that keep 1/4/2;I/P/B .. the 'GOP too long' error in TDA dissapeared.

Originally Posted by reboot

If you're using 704x480, you may get an error, and this could be the whole problem.

I don't think 704 or 720 makes a huge difference to the video so i might just decide to encode to 720 instead of 704 just to save me any trouble.

I'm gonna have to try this.

Thanks again,
Mickey

The only reason i use BeSweetGUI is to boost audio volume, which is not possible in ffmpeggui.

Boost and normalize the volume in the .wav (in something like Goldwave) first, then transcode in ffmpeggui.

Is there any particular reason for using TMPGEnc Plus instead of Xpress?

I don't have a copy of Xpress, and own tmpgenc plus...

I do have Canopus Procoder... but i haven't ever used it so i'm not sure about it. I guess i want to get this conversion right using TMPGEnc first and then i can play around a little.

Screw that! Start using Canopus. It's faster, and usually better quality.

Don't i have to use DGPulldown before i load the M2V in the Author? Cause right now the M2V has a 25 FPS rate.

Yes, my mistake, although if you author in DVDLab Pro, you can use multiple VTS, and bridge them, then use the video without DGPulldown. (I've done this by mistake), and they play on most players anyhow.

I don't think 704 or 720 makes a huge difference to the video so i might just decide to encode to 720 instead of 704 just to save me any trouble.

If you encode it properly, the aspect will not change, just the slight difference in the letterboxing (8 pixels either side), but it can make a HUGE difference if the authoring app accepts it as NTSC compliant or not.

Originally Posted by reboot

Screw that! Start using Canopus. It's faster, and usually better quality.

If i were to use my original PAL AVI's, and start from scratch using Canopus Procoder, can you tell me what i need to do to make NTSC DVD, or point me to a location which does?

Thanks,
Mickey