Proposal to ban 1st time posters who ask about copy protection

[lordsmurf]

I don't like what I'm seeing.

I'm not a suspicious person by nature, but the overwhelming number of new users asking about "how to remove copy protection" is highly unusual. Given the underhanded tactics of the mafia-like lawsuit-happy organizations out there, it strikes me as being some kind of bait. And some dummy might just answer it.

Usually somebody asks about a specific (and very valid) problem, not something so general. And many of those have already been answered in past posts on this topics.

For the safety of the site, I think this should be considered.

I've been reading this site since 2001, and participating since 2003, and I've never seen posts like this in all my years here.

Make it an extension of the anti-warez rule.

[aedipuss]

as long as the owner operators employees and related persons are not the ones posting answers to objectionable material, then there is no way to hold the website responsible per Title 47, Section 230, United States Code (a/k/a Section 230).

aka free speech still holds however tenuously....

[thecoalman]

It's referred to as the "Safe Harbor" , a website that allows user generated content is not responsible for the actions of its members. At least in the US, the rules are different in the UK and may be elsewhere. Youtube for example is not responsible for copyrighted material uploaded to their servers, what they are responsible for is to remove such materila in a timely fashion if served with takedown notice by the copyright owner. Further there are penalties if the person serving the takedown notice is not entitled to do so...

[guns1inger]

However we have already seen the influence that certain organisations can wield *cough* m_cr_v_s__n *cough*, so I wouldn't put too much stock in the first amendment.

More and more this seems to hold only at the pleasure of the government. If a big corporation decides the first amendment doesn't suit it's business model then the people are foolish to believe it will offer them much more protection than an umbrella in a mortar barrage.

[thecoalman]

My post was in reference to the site owner/admin/mods . they can't be held responsible for what the users contribute. If someone uploads a illegal MP3 there responsibility is to remove it when they become aware of it or served with a DMCA notice. The responsible party is the person who uploaded the material, Baldrick could provide the IP if he wanted too or wait for a subpoena .

Youtube is in ongoing litigation over this, they want youtube to be responsible. Obviously a bad idea as any site that allows user contribute material would then be liable if they win. Not going to happen IMO, would just about shut down every site unless they wanted to take the chance.

[lordsmurf]

The idea is to avoid problems.

[PGB]

I agree with you. That sort of thing is frowned upon on other forums, so I think it would be wise to take a firm line here, too.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Good idea. I suppose Swedish law will govern.

[jman98]

Perhaps it would be best to take such a step. Doom9 seems to be the only forum that has no fear of the MPAA, but even they draw the line at some things. We are getting an awful lot of posts recently on how to copy new DVD releases. It is odd.

[oldandinthe way]

I'd be interested in Baldrick's take on this.

I also resent these posts but feel that banning is severe.

As other frequent visitors have, I have attemped to cut off responses to postings of a suspicious nature.

As ridiculous as it sounds, it might be preferable to flame these posters than to put the admins into an increased policing mode. Increased policing has can increase rather than decrease legal risks.

[GMaq]

Hi,
Couldn't at least some of this be attributed to the exponential increase in copy protection methods? A few years back before Arccos, RipGuard (and mainstream PC DVD burners) Copy protection was in a relatively steady state. Does it not make sense that with more types and more frequent changes to the protections that sites like this would see more traffic related to those changes?. Also there are far more back-up choices than just DVD,VCD and DivX, with the plethora of portable devices and matching formats to back up to, it just makes sense that these questions would be a spin-off effect.

Having said all that, I think it would be wise to have a post limit reached before questions involving copy protection or download related conversions could be asked. One of the Linux forums I was on mandated a 3-post minimum before you could post links to an URL, Perhaps something like that would be worth looking into.

[classfour]

I agree with LS: My method to curb this behavior would be to not answer - not a ban, unless they persist. Maybe if they actually read the rules, they'd refrain from this practice.

It does appear to proliferate every time MV rolls out a new protection.

[JohnnyBob]

I'm not aware of an overwhelming number of new users whose only interest is removal of copy protection. Do you have any statistics available to prove that allegation? Of course I don't read this forum daily and don't keep track of new users. Perhaps you do. I also have no idea what the main interests are of most members, except for a few regulars. However I suspect that removal of copy protection is a significant interest of "most" members, and claiming the contrary would be incorrect/inaccurate. If it's necessary to do so for legal reasons (I don't know) that's another thing. Re limiting new members as to what they can do, and the questions they can ask, etc, I don't favor that kind of action. I certainly wouldn't be here now except that my newbie questions were answered in responsive fashion, i.e. this is generally a friendly and helpful forum. I'd hate to see that change, and would not like to see a sense of paranoia develop whenever a question relates to copy protection. I favor free speech and free exchange of knowledge in all areas.

[hech54]

BAN THEM
If not....then I will harass the hell out of them like I've been doing all along.
NOT ONE has replied to me or PM'd me either.

[Supreme2k]

I'm not exactly sure what the complaint is here.

If it about ripping DVDs, VH has been a huge proponent of that since burners came out. If it is the old Asking a Question That Has Been Answered A Million Times ("How do I copy-protect my home made DVD?"), then they can be, politely or otherwise, directed to the tools or guides.

If it is about game copying or console modding, that can be tricky. They should probably be told to move along to one of those sites. I've seen a few more of these than normal lately. I guess it's a sure sign of Christmas approaching.

If it's DRM stripping, that can be legit (T2, anyone?) or not, like downloaded or subscription time-limited films that they want to burn to disc.

I guess I'd have to see an example to know exactly what you mean. Of course, the whole "I rented ... and can't rip it" should be pretty much insta-ban.

[FulciLives]

Of course, the whole "I rented ... and can't rip it" should be pretty much insta-ban.

We've seen stupid people say such things in the past but I've noticed an increase as well in posts where people will say exactly that ... Oh BTW I rented, borrowed, stole this DVD I want to rip/copy/make love to etc.

Like LordSmurf says ... it does seem odd this influx of such statements/questions!

Would be nice if we can just flame the hell out of them like in the good 'ol days of the indolikaa specials

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Constant Gardener]

It seems a bit severe to ban a new user for asking an inappropriate question. A polite pointer to the house rules would be more appropriate.

[classfour]

Were I a betting man, I'd suspect this may have been one of those LS referred to: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic340071.html

At least they didn't rent it.

I suspect that one is for a backup to give to the kiddies.

[hech54]

This one is a better example IMO:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic338977.html

[hech54]

And this one:
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic339375.html

[lordsmurf]

Those are all the types of links I've been noticing. There were 1-2 others that were even more generic. I think one outright asked in the title "how to remove copy protection" and then the post was something like "how can I remove copywrite [sic] from videos??". There was no mention of what the problem was, the formats, etc. It was just a general question about removing copy protection schemes. All of them were 1-post-wonders (any more posts would be the product of cross-posting).

Again, I'm not a suspicious person by nature, but I'm not blind either. Something stinks here, and it's not just my burrito fart from Taco Bell. Typical questions involve actual problems, and these people seem to be very interested... OVERLY INTERESTED... in the protection aspect, not the problem (if they even mention the problem).

We ban for spam, we ban for breaking rules (sometimes it takes 5 strikes, sometimes less depending on the offense), may as well ban for safety.

[hech54]

I'm with you....BAN THEM....end of story.
I've harassed and sarcasm'd them like no other posters
and NONE of them complained to me or anyone else...proving
to me at least that they are up to no good....attempting to gather
evidence of some sort against this site.

[AlanHK]

... attempting to gather evidence of some sort against this site.

"Evidence"?

I think this is a bit paranoid.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Just put it down to ignorance, cluelessness, naiveté. As a conspiracy, I really doubt it.
I can't imagine how their "sponsors" if such would exist, would proceed -- "We asked questions about copy protection and they told us how to break it!" Judge: And??

If any sites would be targetted, it would be Doom9, where serious software hackers congregate. But I haven't noticed anything there.

If the site admins are curious, they could see if there are any patterns with the posters' IPs.

[guns1inger]

Doom9 is generally not as tolerant or newbie user friendly as this place, either

[noki]

imho...severe warning for first offense. ban on second.

[gadgetguy]

imho...severe warning for first offense. ban on second.

I agree. Once could be stupidity, and as much as we'd like newbies to read the rules, many (most?) still don't. A second time after a warning is a deliberate act of defiance and should not be tolerated.

[classfour]

I hate to say it, but I really agree with Hech and LS to an extent. What easier way to drag this site down than *create and account. *ask leading questions for the purpose of getting the "right" answer. *send threatening letters or emails to Baldrick. Ask LightningUK about these copyright nazis; or the guy at ripit4me. I know their specific products had unique abilities in circumventing MV, but once these guys knock down the obvious threats - they still want to have a job. And that job, my friends, may be going after persons who give advice on how to rip a disc.

Never forget, these are the same type of individual who only dropped their case against a grandmother (who didn't own a computer) after her death.

I certainly don't want to attempt to "reason" with them.

I still adhere to what I said: Don't offer an answer. Advise them to read the rules. Advise them to read the guides or Google it.

[dannyboy48888]

all right folks, back to the basics. at one point everyone of us had to learn howto manipulate our video content to suit our application. and when we aked for help 4-5 years ago we could ask a question anyway we wanted and we got answers. now the industry is diffrenet and asking the quesitons we use to ask may land you in jail. my point is new people need help to and it would be foolish of us as a video community to just shun them out because of a poorly typed message. I believe if a user asks a question regarding ripping of protected media, he should be reffered to the already WELL written guides available. if he/she still cannot figure it out then he should make a new post with speific details of what he/she wants , what he/she has tried and what the problem is. if not,and they still do a generic on the the 2nd post then ban them.also common sense would tell you dont use downloaded,ripped,rented,etc in your message, as that is theift which is illegal pretty much anywhere, and should also consitute a ban.somebodys gonna have to take the torch we we get old and gray , and if we dont teach them how to get the job done properly, and how a community is suppose to help each other,who will?


mpegs just like mom use to make

[Marvingj]

Most of the question are dumb & lazy question. No wants to find research anymore.

[SCDVD]

One of the most brazen recent warez posts was a new member who wanted help video taping movies at the theater where his sister works. I don't think even the most liberal social pukes can explain that one away!