Smart Rendering Frame-By-Frame Editing Software?

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, my e-Friends!

By any fortunate chance, do you know of any MPEG/VOB editor (or authoring sofware) that allows for smart rendering frame-by-frame editing, that is, to take out the exact visual frame one does not want in a frame-by-frame visual line. Certainly, TMPGenc DVD Author 2.0 does wonders with this, but I am looking for other alternatives, and the cheaper, the better. Unfortunately, I have tried about 3 or 4 other softwares, but all of them work with a time line, not with a visual line.

Carlos Albert CAL "Disco Mak"

[edDV]

MPeg does not include all frames. It stores video with sporatic I frames (complete informattion) and then change information P and B frames between I frames. The distance between I frames is called the GOP (group of pictures).

MPeg editing software needs to recreate the missing frames between I frames before editing can be done with frame accuracy. TMPGenc DVD Author is only able to cut on I frames.

This has nothing to do with "smart rendering". Smart rendering will retain original data (I, P, B frames) for those segments of the MPeg video that are not being edited.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, EdDV!

Thanks for your explanation.

So, aside from TMPEGenc DVD Author, which other softwares can cut on I Frames?

Laters,

CAL "Disco Mak"

[edDV]

Cutting on I frames means you will only have accuracy to about a half second. This may be OK for you (then use TMPGenc DVD Author).

Those editing video for presentation cannot accept a half second of accuracy. Those people need editing software that can edit to frame accuracy (i.e 1/25th sec PAL or 1/30th sec NTSC). Serious editors quickly learn that audio needs even greater accuracy (i.e. sub frame). Audio needs editing accuracy to 1/4 frame to 1/16 frame depending on the situation.

[teegee420]

Have you tried either of the Womble products, namely MPEG VCR and MPEG Video Wizard?

[Wile_E]

TMPGEnc MPEG Editor allows you to cut on any frame. I do this all the time. It uses it's "smart renderer" to stitch the cut area back together. Then it creates another I-Frame at the stitched location. You might also try Cuttermaran. MPEG Video Wizard has an odd interface, no thumbnail view of the video. There is also no hotkeys for scrolling through the video fast, like TMPGEnc. But some here seem to like it.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, EdDV!

Excellent points! And at a professional level, I certainly agree with you.

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Disco Makberto]

Hi again!

I hadn't realized that some other products from the TMPGenc family have the thumbnail view of the video so as to "cut on any frame", so I appreciate Wile_E's information. Also, I tend to agree with Wile_E that the Womble products have odd interfaces when it comes to cut visually, but thanks to teegee420 for the information. Still, in defense of Womble and its "MPEG Video Wizard DVD" (not the plain "MPEG Video Wizard"), my tests have shown that this software if the best I have come across when one wants to "fade in" (audio and video) and "fade out" (audio and video) at the beginning and end of clips.

Best to all,

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Wile_E]

Watch out with fading in audio and video. Womble re-encodes it just like any other mpeg editor. In Womble I've tried just a simple split of a file, with video effects fade. Womble also wanted to re-encode the entire audio! I don't understand why someone can't develop a "smart renderer" for MP2/AC-3 audio.

[edDV]

The key points to take away are "MPeg native" editors will calculate (approximate) the missing frames between I frames and then allow frame accurate cutting on those calculated frames. Some of these MPeg native editors will also have "Smart Rendering" to protect the areas not between the targeted I frames.

General editors (e.g. Virtualdub, Premiere, Vegas, etc.) will decompress the entire MPeg file to the project timeline setting, then edit the uncompressed timeline and re-encode to export settings. This means the entire clip looses a generation.

Premiere Pro is the one midpriced pro level app that allows "native MPeg" editing when the Mainconcept MPeg2 plug-in is installed (list price $250 for the SD plug-in)*. With this plug-in, all the effects editing in Premiere can be applied to a MPeg timeline. Smart rendering will protect frames not affected by the effects.
http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=7850

For those interested only in cuts editing, see the Womble products or similar. The cheapest "Smart Rendering" suite that I've found is ULead Video Studio (v8 and later). Ulead has licenced Mainconcept "Smart Render" technology.

It's still much better to acquire video in a less compressed format than 4000-9000 Kb/s DVD MPeg2. Consider these techniques the next best strategy.


*Edit: That was last week . Things have changed. Mainconcept has recently changed their strategy. The MPeg2 plug-in is now available as HD/SD compatible for Premiere Pro $399 and a SD version $59 for Premiere Elements. I don't know if the Elements plug-in works in Premiere Pro. Talk to them. This makes Premiere Elements a more interesting program than it was.

http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=7850
http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=6875

[edDV]

If you are working in SD, this plug-in development makes Premiere Elements more interesting.

If you are working in HDV or HD this is interesting but very pricey.

http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=7850
http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=6875

If you don't have a short term need, I'd wait. Expect this technology to be licensed into the next generation retail products (Adobe Premiere, Sony Vegas, ULead, etc.). With HDV, XDCAM, and consumer MPeg2 (DVD and HD) camcorders going MPeg2, maintream editing software needs to deal with MPeg2. Don't expect a quick MPeg4 solution.


Also interesting that TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress will use the Mainconcept h.264 codec.
http://www.mainconcept.com/site/index.php?id=11552

[Disco Makberto]

Wile_E,

If your MPEG-2 file is already DVD-compliant, audio and video wise, "MPEG Video Wizard DVD" does not re-encode it. And if you add "fade in" and "fade out" effects, it will only re-encode the parts with those effects.

Take care,

CAL "Disco Mak"

[Wile_E]

oh, okay. I was editing an MPEG2 HD file 1280x720.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, EdDV!

I'd wait for the technology you are talking about to get cheaper, for I still can handle many of my projects without it. As a matter of fact, just about a handful of my videos (or maybe less) need precise cutting and editing. And when the time comes, I'll be asking for information here again.

Goodwill to you,

CAlbertL "Disco Mak"

P.S.: Premier Pro with the plug-in is a wonderful choice. Let's hope it gets cheaper, though.

[nightcat]

Wile_E,

Hi. I have met this problem that when i set some transitions it will re-encode the entire audio. and i have sent an mail to womble support.

They answered that you can set the 'Export' setting in options. There is the steps:
1. Press 'F10' to open the Option panel
2. Choose the 'Export' tab.
3. Don't check the 'Re-encode the whole audio if any part needs re-encode'.
Finally, when you export the video with some transitions, it will not re-encode the whole audio.

And I asked why add this kind of option. They said that set this option to avoid the audio is crack at the position of re-encode.

Wish to help you.

[nightcat]

Disco Makberto,

Hi. As i know and use, the MPEG Video Wizard DVD can smart rendering and frame-by-frame editing. Try it.

Wish to help you.

[Disco Makberto]

Hello, Nightcat!

Thank you for your help as it pertains to the "export" option.

Yes, MPEG Video Wizard DVD can do frame-by-frame editing, but not visually; in other words, you have to enter a number corresponding to the beginning (choose frame number) and end (choose frame number) of what you want to edit.

Take care,

CAlbertL "Disco Mak"