Suggest a video editor for frame-by-frame editing

[ontherocks]

I am looking for a video editor that can show me all the frames in a video (like for example 24 frames in a 1 sec video) and then allow me to delete individual or more frames, add frames, split the video exactly between two frames I choose, join videos. It should be able to support a minimum of avi, mpeg & wmv formats.

Is there any tool that could do the job? (If there any tool that could do the job without re-encoding that would be just great)

[DB83]

Most NLE's can do this - Ulead, Vegas.....

But they will all re-encode.

VideoRedo can edit an mpeg by taken sections out of it and will allow the video to be re-written to disk without re-encoding.

[grossjamesh]

I use WOMBLE and it does not reencode

[guns1inger]

Just to clarify, most formats will be re-encoded to some degree. Even Womble and VideoRedo. Any format that uses temporal compression and allows edits on non-frames will have to re-encode the section from the cut to the next i-frame, and from the previous i-frame to the cut. On mpeg-2 files this is usually only a few frames. On mpeg-4 files (Divx/Xvid) it could be hundreds of frames.

[ontherocks]

Ok it seems there are no options which wont re-encode. So lets forget that part.
Please suggest some NLE tool that will give me visual filmstrip of all the frames and allow me to play with it.
I tried Jahshaka and Premier demo. Jahshaka showed me the filmstrip but didn't allow me to delete individual frames. In Premier I was not able to get a filmstrip.

[filmboss80]

What you may not understand is that the compression for mpeg, wmv, and divx/xvid avi files involves groups of pictures (GOPs), as opposed to individual frames. You did not specify the type of file you are trying to drop into the Premiere timeline. If you are using DV-AVI (which is stored as individual frames), you should have a timeline preset that will allow you to see each frame of a clip (filmstrip style). Of course, you do not say which version of Premiere you are using, so I don't know if that timeline option will be available to you. Whatever the case, you will likely need to start with a video file type that allows you to select a specific frame. This requires encoding mpeg, wmv, and divx/xvid avi files to DV-AVI or YUV AVI before importing it into the editing program. After the encode, your video files will take up much more space on your harddrive, but you can compress them back down after you finish editing.

[DB83]

Ok it seems there are no options which wont re-encode. So lets forget that part.
Please suggest some NLE tool that will give me visual filmstrip of all the frames and allow me to play with it.
I tried Jahshaka and Premier demo. Jahshaka showed me the filmstrip but didn't allow me to delete individual frames. In Premier I was not able to get a filmstrip.

Ulead Video Studio:

Select "Time-Line" View and then click the magnify button to expand it right up to 1 frame at a time.

I suspect that Premiere does something similar.

[zoobie]

basic stuff...
if mpg, TMPGENC MPEG EDITOR will do it without re-encoding
free trial...

[ontherocks]

Any more ideas?
Are there any small (<100MB) NLE tools that support wmv editing? I just want to delete particular frames for the time being.
I am finding it very difficult to delete exact frames with smaller tools that don't show the frames in timeline.

[filmboss80]

Keep in mind that MPEG video editors cut on I-frames only, and I believe something similar occurs with WMV files (although I have never edited a native WMV; nor would I ever attempt to cut those highly compressed Divx or Xvid files.) MPEG video is compressed (to save disc space) in a way that creates groups of pictures (GOPs), instead of individual frames. Commonly, with NTSC video, it is 16 to 18 frames between each I-frame with MPEG-2. In order to cut exactly on a specific frame, MPEG video needs to be converted to a format that can be cut frame-by-frame (such as DV-AVI). Premiere will do frame accurate cuts on DV-AVI files. Reencoding is necessary for frame-accurate cuts. There's no way of avoiding it. You can use Windows Media Player to export your video as a DV-AVI, and then import it into Premiere or Vegas. After completing the edit, you can re-encode back to MPEG, WMV, Divx, etc., using any one of the many tools recommended on this site. For your requirements, I believe conversion to DV-AVI may be your best option for editing in Premiere. Otherwise, if you don't want to re-encode, you will need to settle for cutting to the nearest I-frame.

Added note: I had you confused with another poster who already owned Premiere. If you don't already have an NLE, VirtualDub (freeware) can do cuts (not dissolves or other transitional effects) on AVI files.

[ontherocks]

Ulead/Vegas etc are not affordable.

Could anyone suggest a simple video file splitter program that would let me split the video by frame number. (for example split the file from fame # 26 to frame # 147). I think thats called frame-accurate splitting.
And should support splitting wmv format.

One example I know is Boilsoft video splitter. The problem is - even if I select the frames precisely using the frame step button, the program doesn't cut/split the video exactly there. It always includes or excludes a few frames from the point I select for cutting/splitting. I guess thats because of GOP-accurate splitting.

[guns1inger]

Are you simply refusing to read any post that doesn't give you the answer you want ?

At least three different posts have explained to you why it is not possible to do what you are asking. The formats you want to split at the frame level cannot be split at the frame level without re-encoding unless you only split on I-frames. This is why Boilsoft includes the extra frames - it moves to the nearest I-frame to where you want to edit.

For mpeg you have videoredo or womble. Any cut between I-frames will result in a few frames being re-encoded.

For Xvid/Divx, AVI Demux or the latest Virtualdub with Smart Encoding enabled. Again, any cuts that are not on an I-frame will result in some re-encoding. How much depends on where the cut is, and could be up to 300 frames. If you set the Q value at 1 or 2 you won't see any difference.

For WMV you could try asfbin.

If you want truly frame accurate editing without re-encoding then you have to use a format like DV, which is designed to be edited. None of the formats you want to work with were designed for editing, and none can be edited nicely. That is just a fact of life. Accept it.

[ontherocks]

Did you read my 5th post?

Ok it seems there are no options which wont re-encode. So lets forget that part.

I am not looking for something that doesn't re-encode.

[guns1inger]

Have you read any of the other posts ? You have your answers. There is no single application that does it all. Use what works best.

[filmboss80]

Okay. You say you don't mind a re-encode, but you don't seem to be willing to re-encode to up to the DV format before editing. If you just take that one step, you can do frame-accurate cuts on a number of editing programs to your heart's content. After you finish editing, you can re-encode back to wmv or divx avi or whatever you want. I do not know how many other ways we can explain this to you.