Domesday Duplicator - good, or no?

[snafoo]

Hi. Are the Domesday Duplicators, or VCR Decode devices, a good investment? Do they really help clean up a VHS tape enough so it can be digitized? I am really interested in this. Please, if anyone can give me the scoop on these devices, and if they are worth buying, i'd appreciate it.

[The 14th Doctor]

For LaserDiscs yes they are the superior option and should be used if you care about getting archival grade quality from that. But that's mainly because of LaserDisc being a composite format and the players not outputting the best quality possible.

For VHS and Video8/8mm (also S-VHS, Hi8) it is not any better than what a high end S-VHS VCR or Sony Hi8 camcorder can do. Especially when Edit mode is enabled in a VCR which disables some noise reduction.

The method as it stands is very complicated, requiring both understanding the software and it's confusing unfriendly documentation along with the hurdles and challenges involved in needing to perform physical modifications to your VCR and camcorder to even tap into the raw signal, which more often than not requires soldering.

And if you include the amplifier, which they always recommend even with Sony branded VCRs that do not require soldering as the video RF signal is a small header on the PCB board that can simply be plugged into using a BNC connector, then you'd need to figure out how to use oscilloscope.

If money is not an issue, then you'd be better off buying a refurbished JVC S-VHS VCR and a resilient capture card (IO-Data GV-USB2, Pinnacle 510/710, etc)

Unless you really want to deal with needing to feel like an electronics engineer just to archive some VHS tapes...

Along with the problems with just setting it up, in which I feel like there is a higher chance of something going wrong in the process, there is also the drawback on the decoding processing taking a long time depending on the system you use.

Such as decoding a 2 hour VHS tape taking upwards to a day and a half, and the fact that the resulting files are massive in size, around 120 GB in size for just the video information, and that is with compression.

Also by clean do you mean problems with the signal recorded onto the tape or physical defects like mold and crinkles?

Decode can not deal with physical tape problems, physically damaged tapes should be taken to professionals who can handle that kind of stuff like Spec Bros.

[Sharc]

@snafoo
You may scroll through this thread to get an impression whether 'VHS-Decode' is something for you or rather not.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/394168-Current-status-of-ld-decode-vhs-decode-%28t...-RF-signals%29

Some comparisons with conventional methods you can see from post #1079 onwards
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/394168-Current-status-of-ld-decode-vhs-decode-(tru...36#post2767592

Happy reading!

[The 14th Doctor]

Yeah those comparisons are really good in showing the truth, shame the thread devolved into uncalled for attacks because some people just so happen to be rather immature for their age

Alas, projects on the internet sure have a lot of uncalled for drama and fighting attached to them. Really does suck, hurts the project's reputation and makes the guy in charge look like an unprofessional immature childish person.

Also forgot to method that even if the OP were to use decode, the Domesday Duplicator itself is not the right device for VHS (it is for LD and Video8) as the device can only capture the video rf signal, not audio.

So one would have to use a different method, such as the new MISRC whenever that comes out, or capture a tape twice, once for the rf video and another for audio, then sync that up in post.

That and decode can only work with HiFi audio, not linear audio, that must be captured conventionally and therefore the quality of the VCR used is more important when it comes to linear mono audio.

[lordsmurf]

a good investment?

Investment? No. It's a hobby project, mostly unsupported, no professional use.

Do they really help clean up a VHS tape enough so it can be digitized?

It doesn't "clean up" anything. It's just a different/non-standard way to read a tape, mostly in an attempt to make a cheap VCR give better output than it does natively.

Please, if anyone can give me the scoop on these devices, and if they are worth buying, i'd appreciate it.

Given the questions, I'd say it's definitely something you'd want to avoid. It's a rabbit hole that even Bugs Bunny himself would avoid.

Given the words "investment" and "clean up", what exactly do you think that is?
What are you expecting?

[scoostraw]

For LaserDiscs yes they are the superior option and should be used if you care about getting archival grade quality from that. But that's mainly because of LaserDisc being a composite format and the players not outputting the best quality possible.

For VHS and Video8/8mm (also S-VHS, Hi8) it is not any better than what a high end S-VHS VCR or Sony Hi8 camcorder can do. Especially when Edit mode is enabled in a VCR which disables some noise reduction.

The method as it stands is very complicated, requiring both understanding the software and it's confusing unfriendly documentation along with the hurdles and challenges involved in needing to perform physical modifications to your VCR and camcorder to even tap into the raw signal, which more often than not requires soldering.

And if you include the amplifier, which they always recommend even with Sony branded VCRs that do not require soldering as the video RF signal is a small header on the PCB board that can simply be plugged into using a BNC connector, then you'd need to figure out how to use oscilloscope.

If money is not an issue, then you'd be better off buying a refurbished JVC S-VHS VCR and a resilient capture card (IO-Data GV-USB2, Pinnacle 510/710, etc)

Unless you really want to deal with needing to feel like an electronics engineer just to archive some VHS tapes...

Along with the problems with just setting it up, in which I feel like there is a higher chance of something going wrong in the process, there is also the drawback on the decoding processing taking a long time depending on the system you use.

Such as decoding a 2 hour VHS tape taking upwards to a day and a half, and the fact that the resulting files are massive in size, around 120 GB in size for just the video information, and that is with compression.

Also by clean do you mean problems with the signal recorded onto the tape or physical defects like mold and crinkles?

Decode can not deal with physical tape problems, physically damaged tapes should be taken to professionals who can handle that kind of stuff like Spec Bros.

Hey 14th Doctor I was so happy to see your post on this subject. I just came here because I have a Domesday Duplicator and I have a VCR and am already modded and tapped into the RF out etc.

I downloaded the Domesday Duplicator app on my laptop but it fails to install due to missing files. And I have not been able to figure out how to proceed from reading the manual and wiki. I have thus far not been able to get answers from their discord.

Since I am this far down the rabbit hole already, do you have any advice for me? I would like to get this working, but I am at a point in my video project that I need some transfers one way or another at this point.

(Based on what you stated above, I'm starting to look at S-VHS VCR's)

[The 14th Doctor]

I do not I'm afraid, I don't know what requirements the Domesday Capture app requires to install correctly, my guess is maybe some of the Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable Packages.

Sorry to hear you are dealing with the confusing mess that is the wiki.

Even if you were to use the Domesday Duplicator you'd have the capture the tapes again for the audio then add that in post. Unless you are dealing with Video8 tapes or LaserDiscs, which those formats work way better with this specific device.

[scoostraw]

I don't actually mind capturing the tapes twice if I could just get the process working. But I'm about ready to jump ship.

Someone near me here has a Panasonic AG-1950 VCR on marketplace for like $200. Do you have any particular thoughts on it? I THINK it is an S-VHS deck.

[Sharc]

I don't actually mind capturing the tapes twice if I could just get the process working. But I'm about ready to jump ship.

Someone near me here has a Panasonic AG-1950 VCR on marketplace for like $200. Do you have any particular thoughts on it? I THINK it is an S-VHS deck.

No, it is VHS only AFAIK. Google its manual.

[scoostraw]

I don't actually mind capturing the tapes twice if I could just get the process working. But I'm about ready to jump ship.

Someone near me here has a Panasonic AG-1950 VCR on marketplace for like $200. Do you have any particular thoughts on it? I THINK it is an S-VHS deck.

No, it is VHS only AFAIK. Google its manual.

Thanks Sharc. I did google it and could only find the service manual for some reason. It did look like it was not S-VHS.

[aramkolt]

Is the DdD being installed on a Windows machine or a Mac? I've had quite a few install issues with Mac with the missing files as you noted and gave up at various times with that tried over the years, but the Windows install was quite a bit easier (still not something I'd expect most people not to get frustrated with if there's some small syntax error when in the terminal etc). The current Mac build doesn't support the most recent MacOS, so wouldn't bother with it unless you have a machine running an older OS that is supported.

The actual windows DdD app is standalone, so there really shouldn't be "missing files" and the git clone command just copies everything over from GitHub anyway.

If you were to use a DdD, the actual package that also contains the driver for the device is here:
https://github.com/TokugawaHeavyIndustries/DomesdayDuplicator-WinBuild/releases/

However, if you're using a Cx card, you don't actually use the DdD App at all for capture, it's just the command line/Powershell and some setting changes might need to be done in the driver. Once you've done a few captures, you can just save the commands in a text document to paste over into the command line later.

The actual clockgen stuff to add to Cx cards I think is going to be overly complicated for most people to do on their own, but I guess you could buy prebuilt boards if you can find them in stock.

DdD or MISRC from my understanding don't have the same audio sync issues as a stock (non-clockgen modded) Cx card does. You don't necessarily have to capture a tape twice as long as you are capturing the VCR's stereo audio output and are ok with that sound quality and just use Decode for video. I think there's a lot less to potentially be gained for audio personally and video takes up a pretty big chunk of space by itself.

Also, there's not a lot of point in getting a fancy VCR if using Decode since you just need the tape transport and heads to be in good shape and functional if using for decode. It would make sense to put it into a decent VCR if your goal is to do direct comparisons of the native VCR processing vs Decode on the same machine. A basic SVHS machine from JVC should be more than good enough if you're wanting to compare S-Video output to decode to give the traditional capture the best result, but you don't even need a SVHS machine if you're just using for decode.

[The 14th Doctor]

DdD or MISRC from my understanding don't have the same audio sync issues as a stock (non-clockgen modded) Cx card does. You don't necessarily have to capture a tape twice as long as you are capturing the VCR's stereo audio output and are ok with that sound quality and just use Decode for video. I think there's a lot less to potentially be gained for audio personally and video takes up a pretty big chunk of space by itself.

Yeah imo the hifi audio output from a VCR is good enough so long as it properly tracks. Some small crackles can be dealt with with audio editors and imo, the difference in audio quality between hifi-decode and an RCA jack can be done in Audacity or something by just boosting the bass and tremble.

So with just video RF decode files are 2.5x larger than Huffyuv avis, and this is with flac compression. When you included the decode audio then it's 5x the size or so.

Also linear mono audio from VHS is still deck dependent as that has to be captured conventionally.