CDs and DVDs Not So Immortal After All

[Capmaster]

V.Y.N.A.L

I'm listening 8)

[Tidy]

Well the fact of the matter is if you do not store anything properly it will be damaged. Hello, if the data was that important what are the discs doing in some box in the garage. You know that's where I keep my important documents, is submerged in gasoline next to the pilot light of my water heater.

[mecg]

All this tells me "QUICK!!!! Back up everything you can get your hands on!!"

[indolikaa]

Anybody know how to burn a 2 hour film into a stone tablet?...Well at least we know they last at least 3000 years

The big problem with stone is interlacing

No for me. I've always had problems with a grainy picture.

Well the fact of the matter is if you do not store anything properly it will be damaged. Hello, if the data was that important what are the discs doing in some box in the garage. You know that's where I keep my important documents, is submerged in gasoline next to the pilot light of my water heater.

What?! Didn't anybody ever tell you gasoline debinds fused toner from paper?

[BobK]

> "I'm hoping they'll hold out till that next medium gets popular, and everyone gets to buy everything over again," he says.

Or he could shell out $20 and make backups before they rot anymore. That'd give him an extra 10-20 years.

[BJ_M]

i can't believe the press this guy is getting -- this story is everywhere , on cnn , nbc, cbs, and every news group around ....

[indolikaa]

My original 'Night Ranger - Big Life' CD has the aforementioned pinholes, and it still plays fine.

So does my 'Gettysburg Soundtrack' CD, and my 'Star Wars, the NPR Radio Drama' CD collection, and a host of other older CDs. But none of them have failed to playback yet.

Hmmm...

[gmatov]

VCD,

I have vinyl more than 50 years old that still play, actually sound better today than they did then, because of better electronics, stylii, etc. Proof of its longevity. No one has proof of any optical media's lifetime beyond its introduction 20 odd years ago.

Edison's original wax cylinders CAN still be played.

Just hope to hell you have a working reader to transfer the CDs, DVDs to the next medium when it comes out.

Like buying a Beta machine, today, to transfer your Betas to anything. Sony announced they were finally giving up on the format, so if you have Betas and want to save them, buy now, or rent one of the few operational ones left in a few years.

As to the lacquer protective layer on a CD, what the hell would you use? Almost no easily obtainable solvent will touch lacquer. Only lacquer thinner. But lacquer will eat into aged baked enamel paint on your car. Treat the disks with a little care and you should not chip the reflective layer. If you do, shame on you.

BTW, a guy I know took an 84 Ford Ranger pickup to the dealer to complain that the paint was peeling off in big patches. Was asked how many miles on the truck. Told 104 thou. Dealer asked, "Jesus, how many miles you expect from a paint job?"

Cheers,

George

[FulciLives]

My original 'Night Ranger - Big Life' CD has the aforementioned pinholes, and it still plays fine.

So does my 'Gettysburg Soundtrack' CD, and my 'Star Wars, the NPR Radio Drama' CD collection, and a host of other older CDs. But none of them have failed to playback yet.

Hmmm...

They may play back on a normal analog based CD player but try and rip them digitally on your computer ... or make a digital copy using NERO etc. and chances are it will fail (mostly towards the end of the disc).

If this happens one way to "save" the CD is to play it back on a normal analog CD player and either capture it to your computer via the sound card or buy a stand alone MUSIC CD-R machine (the kind made for a stereo system).

Friend of mine has one of those MUSIC CD-R machines and he has used it for that purpose ... to back up CD's with rot that can't be ripped on a computer.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[proxyx99]

I remember manuf. saying that THIS IS the technology of the future. While some discs that I made 4 -5 years ago may be consummed by corrosion, my collection of about 70 vinyls from 1936-1940 is 100 % healthy and loughing. And I did not have to store them not stacked, at 71.9 angle, in total darkness, at -200 K, in metal boxes to protect from earth magnetic pole, alpha and gamma rays, 10 feet under the surface of the earth or at sea level (old mines are best for CD storage), handled in gloves in a dust free environment and better yet never used as CD player temp may affect them. It is all users fault that don't know how to store this technology marvel that easily falls apart in oxygen (hello... are these Mars ceritified only?) atmosphere. Have those giants used glue sticks to attach the aluminum layer? So much for Kodak bald claims that they guarantee 100 years of product life. Hey, don't forget to leave your proof of purchase for your grandson to claim the discs under warranty (or what's left of them) !!! Well worth waiting, you may get a free replacement!

[SatStorm]

I have PRINCO CDs burned in 2001, used only a couple of times, nothing written on them, stored in the ideal place with the ideal tempature and now, 2 and a half years later, are unplayable!
On the other hand, I have a mitsui CD-R, burned in 1996 (!), used countless times with the most awfull conditions, no respect, and no problem untill today.

What is the moral of the story?
The how long a disc gonna last, has to do with the quality of the media.

Meanwhile, my 1979 (!) VHS tapes play as new untill today and I never store them the best possible way. But no - name tapes recorded 5 years ago now are unplayable. Same story here....

[Tidy]

Good lord there is NO SUCH THING AS AN ANALOG CD PLAYER. CD's are digital no matter type of player you put them in. The main difference between a cd drive and a cd player is that a lot of cd drive do not have D/A converters. LOL I can not believe I just heard someone say there is an "analog" cd player.

[Capmaster]

I have PRINCO CDs burned in 2001, used only a couple of times, nothing written on them, stored in the ideal place with the ideal tempature and now, 2 and a half years later, are unplayable!

Disturbing, but Lordsmurf assures me "laser rot" is a disease of commercial DVDs/CDs and not the recordables.

[SatStorm]

I'm not talking about laser rot, I'm talking in general, about the use of cheap media.
Companies use cheap media also. It's all about the cost.

Laser rot is a problem of the pressed discs, the burned ones (CD-R) have other issues to deal with.

[indolikaa]

My original 'Night Ranger - Big Life' CD has the aforementioned pinholes, and it still plays fine.

So does my 'Gettysburg Soundtrack' CD, and my 'Star Wars, the NPR Radio Drama' CD collection, and a host of other older CDs. But none of them have failed to playback yet.

Hmmm...

They may play back on a normal analog based CD player but try and rip them digitally on your computer ... or make a digital copy using NERO etc. and chances are it will fail (mostly towards the end of the disc).

If this happens one way to "save" the CD is to play it back on a normal analog CD player and either capture it to your computer via the sound card or buy a stand alone MUSIC CD-R machine (the kind made for a stereo system).

Friend of mine has one of those MUSIC CD-R machines and he has used it for that purpose ... to back up CD's with rot that can't be ripped on a computer.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

This morning's drive to work included one CD-RW digital rip of the Night Ranger disc in question. Nothing like ripping CDs at 4:30 in the A.M...

No problems on that disc. But since you mentioned it, I think this weekend might be a good time to archive the pinhole discs.

Or just buy new ones.

[Cornucopia]

(I know I'm dating myself as an old fogey, but here goes...)

Look, when I got my 1st CD player, it was Summer 1984. That's 20 years ago! I got it and 10 CD's as a college graduation present for myself (Hook 'em Horns!). With the exception of a few discs that happened to not survive an auto accident I was in last year, EVERY ONE of these (and subsequent purchases) has played fine--and I've played them alot. That's not too bad, even if they don't last "100" years.

Also, contrary to what was previously mentioned LP's and the like DO deteriorate. I have attempted to keep my collection (~350 or so) in as good a condition as possible, but they will also wear out just sitting there. Old audiophile mags used to talk about things like how to stack/shelve the discs so as to minimize "sag". And dust and dirt accumulates against the best precautions. I would say even a "pristine", new LP is only 99% of the master. It's analog, and that means good things ("graceful" decline) and bad (playback constantly influenced by PB environment, no "perfect" copies, cumulative wear even through simple playback).

Moral: It still comes down to getting quality media and treating them well.

Scott

<<<<<<<Edit>>>>>>>>>>

P.S. I am really tired of major journalistic media doing such a crappy job of checking the "validity" of their sources.

[offline]

Wow. All this worry about the longevity of media. I'm worried more
about myself - you can't take them with you ya know

[BobK]

> you can't take them with you ya know

What? If that's true then I'm not going!

[Timoleon]

I started reading this thread here at work on my lunch break --- couldn't control my laughter and began choking on a tuna sandwich --- all while still laughing uncontrollably. I had a Gatorade in my other hand, which spilled all over my dress shirt and pants. The suits here thought I was having an epileptic fit or something, and I think they wanted to put a spoon in my mouth

When I tried to explain why I was laughing to them, I was greeted with stony blank stares. I might as well have been speaking ancient Sanskrit to them

Anyway, this is the funniest damned thread I've ever read here

[indolikaa]

I started reading this thread here at work on my lunch break --- couldn't control my laughter and began choking on a tuna sandwich --- all while still laughing uncontrollably. I had a Gatorade in my other hand, which spilled all over my dress shirt and pants. The suits here thought I was having an epileptic fit or something, and I think they wanted to put a spoon in my mouth

When I tried to explain why I was laughing to them, I was greeted with stony blank stares. I might as well have been speaking ancient Sanskrit to them

Anyway, this is the funniest damned thread I've ever read here

Now THAT'S the sign of a quality thread right there.

[offline]

Get your ass to Mars!

What about Uranus ?

Now THAT'S the sign of a quality thread right there.

Hello. Quality threads? Hello. Hello. Nope.. it is a noshow!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and
Timoleon needs some of that Russian laser eye surgery.

> you can't take them with you ya know

What? If that's true then I'm not going!

Oh I thought you might already be gone. Well if you stay then
I'm not going either!

P.s. you can't knee the Reaper in the nuts

[tompika]

Get your ass to Mars!

What about Uranus ?

Uranus has been occupied by FOO

[Roderz]

Uranus has been occupied by FOO

[SatStorm]

A jaxxboss fart on Indolika's oxygen...

Where is my lighter?

[FOO]

Uranus has been occupied by FOO

I'm thinking of moving. The natives are getting wierd.

[rgs_uk]

I think a lot of times there is no difference between cheap CDRs and brand-name. You are paying for the company name and advertising.

The obvious thing to do is to have two copies of each disc each made on a different brand of CDR.

As far as VHS tapes are concerned, some of the worst I ever had were Scotch, Fuji and BASF. I also remember when the first VCR with a 'time-remaining' display came out in the mid-1980's I found that most BASF tapes were under the supposed 180 minutes. The cheap unknown brand tapes from those days all seem OK. I have about 2000 VHS tapes of all brands dating back to 1980.

Broadcasters have much the same problem with archiving. Now it is getting hard to find a machine to play the two-inch quadruplex tapes that were widely used until the early 1980's.

Nothing is going to last for ever, we have to 'migrate' the important stuff to new formats as they appear. Obviously with the quantity of VHS that I have I won't be able to copy it all. Just viewing it in real-time would take a year 24/7

[RabidDog]

Scientists have developed a way of playing back LP's(wax shellac 78s and 45's) without physical contact, so no wear and tear .. unfortunately it requires an electron scanner....thatshould have been the tech of the future. Come in DVDram your time is here!

[solarfox]

Wow. All this worry about the longevity of media. I'm worried more
about myself - you can't take them with you ya know.

I might not be able to take them with me, but I don't think it's asking too much for them to be here at least as long as I am, or to be able to leave them to my descendants...