Hi, Some First Time Capture Questions

[PRIME1]

Hi,

Where to begin? I have been reading this website (and the others mentioned here) for a week or so preparing myself for my first capture. Thanks for all the great information. I read alot of the posts, recommendations, printed a few of the guides and decided to give it a try. My goal is to capture the 8mm home movies I have on my Sharp Viewcam (composite connection), add menus, cut and splice where needed, and eventually burn to DVD using Nero 6. From what I have read, I am going to try to capture in avi using huffyuv, edit (can I do this in Nero 6 or Movie Maker 2 ?), encode and then burn. Quality is my main concern as these will be my permanent copies of our tapes.

Here is some system info:
Win XP Home Edition SP1
Athlon XP 1800
768Mb PC2700 DDR
(1) 80Gb WD Hard Drive 7200
Geforce2 MX AGP card 32Mb
Lite-On 851S DVD burner

I know I will probably need to buy a secondary hard drive at some point but right now I'm just testing the waters. I have an old (I mean old) Hauppauge Win/TV PCI capture card so I decided to drag that out of the closet and try it first before investing in something else. Problem ! This card will only capture at 352 X 240 maximum. Please correct me if I have read something wrong but I do not think this will accomplish my goal.

My question is where should I go from here ? I know I can either spend more and replace my aging Geforce2 MX card with another AGP card capable of capturing video or buy another pci/usb2 capture card/device. Any suggestions?

Also, if I go with the AGP card, ATI or Nvidia ? I have only had Nvidia and therefore not very familiar with ATI but I know alot of other posters seem to like ATI.

All help and advice is greatly appreciated. Sorry for all the random questions all over the post. I'm afraid I probably have something all wrong so please correct me anywhere I have strayed.

Thanks Again,
PRIME1

[redwudz]

You seem to be off to a good start. 352 X 240 I believe is 1/2 D1, so you could easily encode it to a DVD. As far as video capture cards, I can only recommend the 'Capture Cards' section to the left. Lordsmurf.com is a good source of capture card info also. You can do editing with Virtualdub (free) and encode with TMPGEnc, then author with TMPGEnc DVD Author if you want easy to learn programs for DVD video work. If you plan on a lot of video transfers, something like the ADVC-100 works well. USB boxes - some work some don't work so well. Avoid USB1.

[PRIME1]

Thanks for the reply redwudz,

I had read this in another post:

Half D1 is a good choice for VHS captures but it is 352x480 NTSC or 352x576 PAL

You can put 352x240 NTSC or 352x288 PAL on a DVD using MPEG-2 but those resolutions are really too low even for VHS sources.

So I thought I needed to capture at 352x480. Is this not true for my 8mm tapes

I was curious to see if anyone else has had any experience, good or bad, with my card. I don't think I will be doing alot of captures. I just have about 8 tapes I would like to convert.

Thanks Again,
PRIME1

[redwudz]

It's a lower resolution, but give it a try. If your card is capable of higher resolutions, so much the better.

[PRIME1]

Thanks again rewudz. I did try to capture with the card before posting this thread for help. The results were disappointing at best.

I tried first with AMcap that I downloaded from Hauppauge when I downloaded the latest drivers for the card. The video appears to capture fine (at 352x240) with no frames dropped but when I play the video back it looks like it's in slow motion

I also downloaded and tried Virtualdub which was recommended by one of the capture guides I printed off and tried using that. I could not use the settings recommended in the guide because of the 352x240 limit of my card, but I tried to get as close as possible. No matter what settings or compression I tried it dropped frames like crazy, almost 50%

That's when I decided to post for some help. I don't mind doing the work or trying the settings, but I did not want to spend lots of time on the card if it wasn't the best option for me anyway. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
PRIME1

[Capmaster]

Prime1,
I think you would have been disappointed being limited to 1/2 D1 res. You would have ended up investing in one of the new cards very quickly, which are very good and not that much $ compared to just a year ago. Capping off tape is probably going to yield the lowest quality you'll encounter of all the capture options, and that's at full D1 (720x576). Handicapping yourself from the start by limiting res is a recipe for mediocre captures.

[redwudz]

PRIME1, thanks for the additional information. It does sound like you need a newer card. I don't like to recommend cards, because I'm not knowledgeable there. However for video card capturing, I WOULD recommend lordsmurf.com. Good info there. Others here can give their video card recommendations. Good luck.[/b]

[indolikaa]

352x240 is VCD resolution, with a fixed bitrate of 1150. Not the best choice for 8mm tapes but doable in a pinch. You can author that resolution to DVD and bump the bitrate from the VCD standard of 1150 to the DVD standard of 1856 and most DVD players will play it. LordSmurf uses that for his 'squeeze three movies on a single DVD' format.

But...

352x480 is Half-D1 and comes highly recommended for 8mm tapes. I've done enough conversions to attest to the quality. You can go as low as 3000 and still have pretty good quality, depending on how much action/movement is in the recorded material.

[Perro Grande]

That Hauppauge card (I have one of 'em, too) is really suitable only for VCD-Quality results. It does a nice job at this, but really will not look as good as a newer card.

There's no question that if you plan to go with one of the ATI cards to perform both videocard and capture duties, a thorough study of www.lordsmurf.com is in order.

Another option to consider would be a firewire based capture box, like a Canopus ADVC-100. Your video card is a little bit on the weak side, but unless you're going to play video games it won't really matter that much.

All you'd need for this is a firewire card and you'd be off and running. You could add a larger drive and/or better vid card later on.

[SatStorm]

Your card is just fine for your projects, you don't need something more.

What you have to do:

1 - Your PC is about 2 years old. So, I don't suggest for it winXP. I suggest you installing win 2000 and sp4.

2 - You have to install the latest btwincap drivers for your card. Get them from here: https://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=308#comments

2a - Forget the Tuner with your card (or any card...). You gonna use your composite in for video and the line in of your audio card for audio.

3 - You can't capture direct to virtualdub with win2k and winXP. You need something called vfm2wdm wrappers, which ain't fuctional always without tweaking.
So, a better alternative for you is virtualVCR (for your first steps at least). When you learn a few more advance things, you may be capable to capture with virtualdub and do wierd advance stuff, with incredible results. But this is a college lesson, while now you are in the 3rd grade...

4 - With winTV cards, you don't use "overlay" mode while capturing. You need to use "preview" mode to kill the 352 x 288/240 limitation. That way, it is possible to capture up to 768 x 576/480 if needed...

5 - Huffyuv is a freeware codec, but for full caps it is "heavy" for your PC. A much better alternative for winTV cards, are the mjpeg codecs. PicVideo is the best for WinTV cards but it isn't freeware. With PicVideo, you can capture 720 x 576/480 without a simply framedrop on your system and virtualdub, while this is almost impossible with huffyuv... (expecially if you don't have a second HD)

6 - According the latest objervations of those bt8xx(x) capture cards (winTV has inside a bt878 chip), it seems that the result framesize of a capture, is a result of a realtime resizing. So, the "safe" mode to capture with the best picture quality, is 704 x 576.
The best quality you can have with bt8xx(x) cards, can be with virtualdub capturing at 368 x 576/480, resize to 344x576/480 and add boarders to end up 352 x 576/480. But this is a very advance topic!
Capturing at 704 x 576/480 and then resize to your target framesize, is about as good as this really advance step.

In short terms:
You don't need another card for your project. Your card is more than okey
- Install latest btwincap drivers
- Capture with virtualVCR at 704 x 576
- Load your captured avi to virtualdub, filter it and resize it to whatever you wish (352 x 576/480 is an excellent choice)
- frameserve it to your favorite encoder.
- Encode it to mpeg 2 interlace.


Also, you have another great alternative: Capture realtime to mpeg 2.
It is possible with the btwincap drivers and mainconcept 1.4.1. (a demo is avalaible)
This encoder has a tool for capture. When you try it, use only 704 x 576/480 with your card and encode with an average of 4000 for normal stuff and 6000 for homemovies. Amazing quality the fast way with real old hardware! With an athlon XP 1800 like yours, it is possible if you don't add filters during the proccess (I do it with a XP 1700 myself)

[tatty]

I'm a new boy who's just been down a similar path so I sympathise completely. It's a whole new world, and the advice from Satstorm sounds good to me.

I started with a 500MHz P3 and a 'crappy' old no-name TV card that wouldn't capture at better than 320 and dropped most of that. I spent weeks trawling this site and others for the perfect solution, considered everything but was reluctant to invest too much in kit just for converting analog sources, obviously not a long term investment. Best solution seemed to be the ADVC100, available here for about 250 pounds UK.

However, on the advice from this site, first step was to replace the PC! Sounds dramatic but it was time anyway, and the bits from a local computer fair cost me much less than an ADVC. I now have an AMD 2.4GHz running XP with 512mb and 120GB HD that goes like the clappers. Not only that, but the 'crappy' TV card that I was about to take to a boot sale was a revelation after dumping the TV software and loading the btwincap driver set. Full capture up to 768x576, solid as a rock. Still drops the odd frame from poor VHS tapes but otherwise as steady as a rock.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to save your money and keep your capture card. Use VirtualDub to capture, TMPGEnc to code, TDA DVDAuthor to compile and DVDShrink to squeeze it on to a DVD. Magic software, and all free/cheap.

Good luck.

[PRIME1]

Thanks to everybody for all the great advice !!

I am going to try SatStorm and tatty's advice first just to see what I can get out of this card. I am at work now and will have to wait until tonight but I have printed out the replies and I'm eager to get started.

I'll post back and let everyone know how it goes. Thanks again for your time and knowledge sharing.

PRIME1

[PRIME1]

Hi All,

I downloaded and installed the latest btwincap drivers for my card(BT848). I then did the same for VirtualVCR. Everytime I start VirtualVCR I get an error message: Error conecting the smart tea to capture filter. If I try to start a capture I get that same message again followed by this one: Could not render filter Smart Tee -> Flow Meter -> AVI Mux

I tried adjusting the settings, turning compression on and off, and I made sure no filters were selected. I still can't get around this error.

I then downloaded and installed the mainconcept demo. This seems to capture great at 704x480. Some dropped frames but not bad at all considering my source. Is this what I should use ? If so what if any filters should I try to clean up the video ?

As always, thanks for all the help.
PRIME1

[SHS]

Say PRIME1 that would by chance have a BT848 chip on would it?.

[PRIME1]

Say PRIME1 that would by chance have a BT848 chip on would it?.

Yep. That's it.

[SHS]

Do your self a favor get a BT878 or newer chipset it give much better quality results over BT848 which was very badly-designed chip.

[SatStorm]

This is a usual error message from virtualvcr, nothing to worry about..
It appears when you have save wrong hardware settings as default. Or when you first run the program and the default settings are not compatible for some reason with your hardware.
You have to learn how to set up the program and save the settings so to stop having those messages.

Read the manual or visit virtualvcr website for infos
I don't think that it is something so difficult to figure it out yourself.
If you can't, then I advice you to get a DVD standalone recorder! After all, it is a faster, easier and excellent alternative for your projects. Cost less than a PC also...


About your hardware, search at this link your card and follow the instructions other users report about how to set it up correct.

https://www.videohelp.com/capturecards.php?CaptureCard=win+tv&Submit=Search&searchconnec...&Search=Search

The reason you can use mainconcept for capturing, is because this program use some built in default settings for this. Many commercial capturing programs do follow this route, for new hobbiest like you, who don't know how to set up their hardware and software...

Finally, when you capture you don't use filters, you don't do other things with your PC and overall you don't push any buttons!

Search a bit to figure it out. I repait: Your card is more than OK for VHS captures!

@SHS: BT848 is technical inferior BT878, but with the universal btwincap drivers installed, a VHS source and the use of composite video-in for capture, there is no difference when you cap 704 x 576/480

[W_Eagle]

3 - You can't capture direct to virtualdub with win2k and winXP. You need something called vfm2wdm wrappers, which ain't fuctional always without tweaking.

Hi pal,
??? -- I'm always capturing directly with VirtualDub on WINXP.

[SatStorm]

So do I, but he is new in this hobby and he don't know how to set it up!
You don't capture direct with virtualdub. W2k/Win XP use a vfm2wdm warper to succeed it. Sometimes it works as is (you don't have to install something to make it work, except a SP or a patch), sometime is a pain in the a... to make it work (you have to hack the registry, as virtualdub official site mention)

So, I always advice the new video eunthusiasts of this hobby, to start with virtualvcr (if they use w2k/winXP) which is a far easier application to make it work straight!

Soon or later, he gonna figure it out and move to virtualdub, as we all did!

[PRIME1]

Thanks again to everyone (especially SatStorm) for all the help. I did try researching the VirtualVCR error before posting but could not find alot of answers for it. I will continue to try. 8)

Thanks again,
PRIME1

[SatStorm]

Test a bit this "Use smart tee filter for preview" virtualvcr has in the "View" tab.
I think in your case needs to be selected (or vise versa? test it a bit!)

Also, set costum settings at 352 x 576 at first and then try other higher framesizes.