Help/advice: Tivo to DVD?

[humphrey]

Hi all:

FYI I did try a forum search, but due to not really knowing specifics, my search results rendered results which weren't relevant to my question!

Although perhaps I SHOULD have posted this in "Capturing" or "DVD Authoring", I figured I better post first in the "Newbie" section since I don't know how "fundamental" my question is. Anyway ...

... I want to transfer some programs saved on my Tivo onto DVD (eventually), but until then my hard disk. My goal is to have the QUALITY of the DVDR video to be AS GOOD as the Tivo playback (which is great!).

Here's my question, followed by the reasons behind it -- for the INITIAL capture FROM Tivo TO a Windows 2000 PC, what is THE BEST video file format, REGARDLESS of how much disk space it will consume?

Reasons:

1. Originally, I used the MyDVD s/w bundled with my Sony DRU-500A, which captured the video in MPEG-2 (I assume). When I played the DVD, the quality of the video was NOT as good; in any event, I was not pleased with it).

2. I realize that my peripherals and s/w (MyDVD, Dazzle Hollywood DV Bridge) are not "top of the line" ... SO, until I get better equipment, I'd like to at least STORE the best "source files", UNTIL I get good s/w to burn new DVDs.

3. I've heard about soooo many different capture formats, including AVI Type 1 and 2, something called AVI-DV 64-bit, etc. etc. While I've discovered tech info about these formats (except AVI-DV 64-bit), perhaps I'm too stupid to extrapolate which is best.

Any and all opinions as to the BEST video file format would be greatly appreciated ... as I said, I'm not worried about disk space.

Thanks all!

[beltic]

As far as capturing goes - You may want to investigate the Pinnacle Stuido 8 series... These seem to allow both Digital and Analog capture.

granted, I have not used it, but my Father in law swears by it.

[wulf109]

TIVO uses a Hard Drive to store on. Couldn't you remove it from the TIVO and intall it in your computer and then any files on it become available to any program on your computer?

[humphrey]

Beltic:

Thanks ... as I said, I'll most probably need to upgrade my DV capture box and s/w.

Have any advice on the best video file format to store for now?

Thanks again!

[humphrey]

TIVO uses a Hard Drive to store on. Couldn't you remove it from the TIVO and intall it in your computer and then any files on it become available to any program on your computer?

Wulf:

Would that I could!

You're right, Tivo uses standard EIDE hard disks ... but despite that, and despite the fact that Tivo uses the Linux kernel, NO ONE (so far) has figured out a way of copying video from a Tivo HD and save it to a Windows video file format.

In fact that's one of the reasons why I want to "archive" video from Tivo -- I'm planning to buy a bigger HD for my Tivo, but once that happens the programs I have now will be lost.

Any recommendations on the best capture file format for the time being (disk space NOT being a concern for me) ??

Thanks again

[beltic]

Ok, so, basically, you already can view the programs off tivo to your pc, using it like a vcr.

Seems that VirtualDub can capture for you as well, and i belive thats freeware. Actually, ill be doing something quite similar - but with a vcr. To my knowledge, isnt TIVO just a digital form of a vcr, as in it still connects to the tv (or pc) with standard RCA or svideo?

[G-man]

I capture (via firewire thru a mini-dv cam passthru) from a Direct TV Tivo all the time. I encode to 352x480 VBR using TMPGEnc, can get over 3 hours on a DVD and the quality is every bit as good as the original.

If you want to access the video directly off the Tivo harddrive, check out this site: http://dvd-create.sourceforge.net/tystudio/index.shtml

[borghe]

I am not sure about stand alone Tivos, but the "video" files on DirecTivos are not legally able to be copied, and thus shouldn't be talked about here. Those files are the actual DirecTV bitstream and thus covered under DMCA. Decrypting them is breaking the law.

I don't think stand alone units are legally copyable either as Tivo has banned all such talk from their boards, but don't quote me on that. Tivo is generally unusually helpful when it comes to hacking their product (Ethernet, Apache, upgrades, expansions, etc) but when it comes to copying the files from the standalone units they make it sound as if it's illegal, so have to believe it is.

[DVWannaB]

I capture (via firewire thru a mini-dv cam passthru) from a Direct TV Tivo all the time. I encode to 352x480 VBR using TMPGEnc, can get over 3 hours on a DVD and the quality is every bit as good as the original.

If you want to access the video directly off the Tivo harddrive, check out this site: http://dvd-create.sourceforge.net/tystudio/index.shtml

Hey Humphrey,

G-man is correct with his post, but to go that route you need to do a few steps before that.

Try the dudes over here @ www.dealdatabase.com/forum. Read the posts there or post your question. Unlike here, those guys can and will point you in the right direction

[humphrey]

Everyone:

Thanks for the feedback ... and while I don't want to "appear" to be "ungrateful" ... the ORIGINAL question I had was this: given the varying choices (AVI 1 and 2, MPEG-x, AVI DV 64-bit (whatever that is), etc etc) -- WHICH video file format will allow me to keep the BEST QUALITY on hard disk (disk space being a non-issue)??

Right now I'm capturing my Tivo programs using S-Video into a Hollywood DV Bridge and Firewire.

Thanks!

[Metaluna]

You're right, Tivo uses standard EIDE hard disks ... but despite that, and despite the fact that Tivo uses the Linux kernel, NO ONE (so far) has figured out a way of copying video from a Tivo HD and save it to a Windows video file format.

Well, I don't want to say anything that would get me banned, but let's just say that this is not a correct statement. It is, however, strongly discouraged by the manufacturer and many web forums ban discussion of it.

As for file formats, if you have a DV bridge, then your best bet in my opinion is to save in AVI Type 2 format. This will be readable by all tools, including freeware like VirtualDub, though you will still need a DV codec. I use the Mainconcept one, which is a demo, but doesn't seem to have a time limit for decoding only (so far anyway, knock on wood).

As for quality, I believe the DV format itself does employ some mildly lossy compression, though it is still much higher quality than MPEG-2, especially decoded and re-encoded MPEG-2. I think the quality of the analog front-end of the capture device will play a much larger role in the final quality of the capture, though.

In my opinion, if you want the best quality reasonable-cost DV capture solution, get a Canopus ADVC-100 or ADVC-50 and hook it up to the TiVo's S-Video output. I have not heard very many good things said about Dazzle products, however they might work fine for you.

[humphrey]

Metaluna:

Thanks SO MUCH for your advice and opinions. Based on your advice, I've not gathered the "courage" to do a test DVD burn using AVI Type 2 as the source ... and then see how it comes out. I just didn't want to test wildly without input from other folks!

Chances are I will upgrade soon to the Canopus box, but the sooner I can get stuff off my Tivo the better!

Thanks again!

Well, I don't want to say anything that would get me banned, but let's just say that this is not a correct statement. It is, however, strongly discouraged by the manufacturer and many web forums ban discussion of it.

As for file formats, if you have a DV bridge, then your best bet in my opinion is to save in AVI Type 2 format. This will be readable by all tools, including freeware like VirtualDub, though you will still need a DV codec. I use the Mainconcept one, which is a demo, but doesn't seem to have a time limit for decoding only (so far anyway, knock on wood).

As for quality, I believe the DV format itself does employ some mildly lossy compression, though it is still much higher quality than MPEG-2, especially decoded and re-encoded MPEG-2. I think the quality of the analog front-end of the capture device will play a much larger role in the final quality of the capture, though.

In my opinion, if you want the best quality reasonable-cost DV capture solution, get a Canopus ADVC-100 or ADVC-50 and hook it up to the TiVo's S-Video output. I have not heard very many good things said about Dazzle products, however they might work fine for you.