How Good Is Digital8?

[RacerXXX28]

I realize its not as 'clean' as minDV, but as a relatively cheaper alternative (and an upgrade from my current Hi8), what kind of quality can I expect? And are there certian things I should look for/look out for when purchasing?

[johnells]

AFAIK the two formats, D8 and MiniDV use the same format, DV! The tape construction is obviously different. My bet is that a cheap miniDV tape will have more drop outs than a high quality D8 tape. The cleanliness you speak of has more to do with the camera CCD and lens. Slap a miniDV tape into a cheap RCA digicam and then into a high end 3 CCD Canon you will see a big difference.

Also, I used D8 tapes for computer backups for years (14 GB per 112m tape) and if it can restore all 14 GB without a single dropped bit then I am guessing that they will be more than adequate for digital video. You can find the tapes real cheap at computer recycler stores. Plus if you have Hi8 or 8 mm footage you can drop the tapes into selected Sony D8 digicams and have the A/D conversion done right off the tape. It will then spit out DV to your firewire. Check on this specification as this years model seems to be lacking the function. This method is prefered because the analog to digital encoding is done right off the tape and not from an output (which degrades the source to send it over the composite or s-video cable).

John

[VideoTechMan]

What John says is correct. I also have a D8 that i am borrowing from a friend, at least until I can save some money for a 3-CCD camcorder. D8 camcorders record a compatible DV signal, so that when you capture it to your computer its already digital. Why do you think that most D8 camers have the firewire port? And as for Hi8 and 8mm recordings, using the D8 is an excellent way to do the conversion, and get a timecoded digital copy at the same time. In my case for instance, i have the Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck, so I can connect any source---VHS, SVHS, whatever, to the deck and get digital timecoded copies. With this, it will make transferring and capturing alot easier, especially in programs like Premeire and Final Cut Pro, where the timecode is essential for proper capturing. Hope this helps

VideoTechMan

[RacerXXX28]

thx for the replies, I'll put the info to use pretty soon

[ktnwin]

Hi johnells,
how do you back up computer data to D8 tape ?
Do you use your Digital 8 camcorder to do this ? and which software ?
This is very valuable information and I am very interested.
Thanks

[txpharoah]

D8 is a respectable consumer format with reasonable quality better than VHS. So yeah, it's fine. I prefer full DV or SVHS, but D8 is okay too.

[jwedge]

I'm happy with D8, specially because can still play my old 8mm tapes. D8 quality is good, specially when convert to DVD.

[thegman45]

D8 and miniDV should have the same quality assuming the cams are similar. after all it is recording digital info (1s and 0s). if you use a good quality tape with a decent camcorder then the results should be acceptable. I use both and am very satisfied witht the results.

[LetsRip]

Racerxxx28,

I also have a Sony D8 (TRV-740), and one thing to keep in mind is if you need to convert other analog media types to DV (such as VHS). If so, some of the Sony D8's have a pass-through feature that allow the connection of an analog input source (VHS, etc) to the camcorder, which is converted on-the-fly to the DV out, which in turn is captured on your computer via firewire (iLink). You get DV-AVI to your computer, just as if you had recorded directly to D8. I've actually used the pass-through feature on my camcorder more than the D8 capabilities!

Anyway, a great feature if you need to convert more than just analog Video8 and Hi-8 content...

[Jester700]

D8 is a respectable consumer format with reasonable quality better than VHS. So yeah, it's fine. I prefer full DV or SVHS, but D8 is okay too.

This is misleading. As others have said, the D8 format itself is equal to DV, and is far better than SVHS. Now, individual cams differ due to the quality of optics & electronics, but that's not a format issue, per se. You might be able to find an old 3 chipper SVHS cam that beats a D8 due to these other issues, but it would also beat a number of DV cams.

If by "full DV" you mean "pro DV", sure - that format has an expensive quality advantage. But if you were implying that consumer DV cams were "full DV" where D8 cams were some sort of "half DV", then no - they're the same digital signal.

[johnells]

ktnwin,

I hope I didn't mislead you on the PC backup thing. I had a separate Exabyte deck for doing the PC backups. They were quite common in UNIX and NT servers. They were SCSI based and could write about 2 MByte per second up to 14 GB. I bought a used one for $50. Bt using NT Backup you can write any file (even open ones) to the tape.

The exabyte tapes were 8 mm so they were 100% compatible with 8 mm, Hi8 and D8 vidcams. My logic was is they were data grade then they must be better than my sony video grade tapes.

Here is some tech info on the exabyte tapes:

http://www.exabyte.com/support/online/kb/display.cfm?id=142

When you pop the exabyte tapes into your vidcam it detects 8 mm, even if you have a Hi8 machine. The reason is the knock-out holes on the cart are different for 8 mm and Hi8. I punch out one of the knock-outs and the tape is recognized as Hi8 in my Hi8 machine. Don't try doing this with a stock 8 mm tape as they were never meant to stand up to the rigors of Hi8 recording. The exabyte tapes were meant for digital storage and are backwards compatible.

I hope this clears it up.

John

[jsnkc]

You all also forgot to mention that Digital8 only gives you one option for recording audio so you can't go back later and add in audio. That is one of the main reasons MiniDV is far superior to Dig8

[Jester700]

The format allows it, but no cams have the feature so it's basically no go for D8.

A small disadvantage, IMO, because every DV editing package out there allows this, and at full 16 bit quality. If one only intended to edit in the cam, this would be an advantage for DV.

[newnoiseimage]

DO NOT BE FOOLED!!!!

D8 is another Sony venture that didn't live up to it's hype. It is not better than mini-dv at all. I work in television and see many different formats, mini-dv is a good format to choose, better than d8. The cameras cost about the same, don't invest in a forgotten format.

[Jester700]

Did anyone ever say it was BETTER than DV? Maybe for someone with many Video8 or Hi8 tapes, but other than that nobody's made this claim.

It IS a good, competitive format, though. In the end, both formats are going away when rewritable blu-ray stuff becomes mainstream. I doubt 8mm will go away before then - too many analog cams, D8 cams, and computer backup devices use the media.

[LetsRip]

As stated before, Digital8 and MiniDV both store and transfer using DV format. The difference is the medium used to store the DV. Both have pros and cons, but we're talkin' about storing the same set of 0's and 1's here folks.

There is a DEFINITE business reason behind Sony's choice to offer D8. I have a library of Video8 tapes I've made over the past 12 yrs. I hate tape medium as much as the next digital-head, but I hate even more the idea of not having a way to view/convert my tapes. My D8 cam does a great job converting the Video8 recordings to DV (via iLink/Firewire). In my opinion, I think D-VHS will also gain more popularity for the same reason -- yet I digress...

D8 is merely a transition option for people like myself. If you don't already own or plan to convert Video8/Hi8, then D8 may not be for you. You'll just have to shell out more bucks for the same features in a MiniDV cam...

[johnells]

Racer,

Here is another thing to consider. If you already own a 8 mm or Hi8 vidcam then you can take your old trusty low-light Hi8 and your new fancy D8 digicam on a shoot with you. You run both cameras in tandem and at the end of the day you have twice as much footage to play with. First you dump your native D8 tapes then you pop in your Hi8 tapes (into the D8 machine) and get your second angle all in 25 mbps glory!

John

PS: I am sure this would make any hardcore videographer cringe (mixing analog and digital. But for us basement editors it is just the ticket.

[Jester700]

Actually, that works great - it all depends on the quality of your Hi8 or 8mm cam. Plus, the noise reduction & TBC in the D8 cam can make the analog footage better than it is played through the analog cam!

[kevin83202]

I have a sony TRV-730 (d8) and a TRV-70 (Mini-DV). The only thing I like better about the Mini-DV is the size. The digital 8's quality is great and it cost half the amount of the Mini-DV.

[arcorob]

I too have 2 DIG 8 cams (both SONY) and have had excellent results but I do have 1 issue.

It seems I cannot get Digital PASSTHRU to work. I can take an ANALOG 8 tape and import wonderfully. I can copy VHS to camera and then FIREWIRE over. But I get strange results if I try passthru.

USing Vegas Video Capture
I get sound but no picture. Duh ?

Using Ulead Video Studio I get Picture but no sound.

I haven't tried premier yet. What Might I be missing ? I mean, I have it set for DV OUT to ON. I see the picture on the camcorder LCD and hear the voice, but it does not make it out of the camera correctly....

Also , is it correct to NOT have a tape in the camera at the time ??? Thanks in advance...

[David K]

On the pass-thru capture with a Sony D8.

I have a Sony TRV340 and I do get it work with sound and picture.

I have Windows XP and use Video Vegas 4.0 with its capture program. Almost any capture program will work if you want to simultaneous record and pass-thru (no loss in quality that way actually since it is going directly into the computer while it is being taped). But you can also just pass-thru without recording (with the tape in) if you go to preferences in Vegas and disable the "control camcorder enabled" (or some words to that effect) option.

[Gil T Pleasure]

Is the source video copy protected? If so, that's probably why you can't get the DV passthru to work properly.

[David K]

For source-protected DVDs the Sony Camcorder will tell you in no uncertain terms with a message that it is source protected and you will not get anything, sound or picture. I report from sad experience.

[arcorob]

Non-copyprotected.

I too have Vegas 4.0 and win xp . I will have to try that DISABLE camera control and see how that works.,...!! Thanks

Bottom line, my work around was to record to the DV tape then into the machine but why do it twice if not needed ? Thanks again....Rob